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Old 05.04.2020, 21:16
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Re: Coronavirus

Interesting, it seems Austria is doing better than anybody else, new cases per day are decreasing drastically every day. What have they done right? (other than blocking Italians from entering, right from the beginning of the explosion in Lombardy)
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  #6322  
Old 05.04.2020, 21:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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family doctors in Switzerland are really crazy now.
Colleague's daughter had big ear pain, typical for ear infection. the family doctor didn't what to see them at all. told them that everybody needs to be in quarantine, not allowing going to the supermarket either, and antibiotics were picked up by a neighbor, and they got the medical certificate for 10 days stating "quarantine due to coronavirus disease in the household". it isn't even written that there's suspicion of corona but that the disease in the household is.

our medical department in the company is going crazy. they told me that they receive a certificate that doesn't follow the recommendations at all, that the family doctors don't want to examine people at all and everyone is "corona sick" no matter the symptoms.
Why is that surprising? That was bound to happen, and is likely the same in many places. If in doubt, say it’s corona, and if further in doubt, lock ‘em up. All reason has gone out the window.
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Old 05.04.2020, 21:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting, it seems Austria is doing better than anybody else, new cases per day are decreasing drastically every day. What have they done right? (other than blocking Italians from entering, right from the beginning of the explosion in Lombardy)
Compulsory masks https://www.ft.com/content/f68f3063-...9-bcc7ee1efd8e maybe?
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  #6324  
Old 05.04.2020, 21:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting, it seems Austria is doing better than anybody else, new cases per day are decreasing drastically every day. What have they done right? (other than blocking Italians from entering, right from the beginning of the explosion in Lombardy)
Better general population health, better/more efficient healthcare, less concentration in one area, who knows.

Meanwhile, France with their complete lockdown has gotten nothing under control.

Bottom line: limited correlation so far between lockdowns and keeping spread at bay.

@MC - unlikely to be a factor, it’s only been like three days and only applies to supermarkets, I doubt that has had an influence (not saying it won’t have one going forward)
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Old 05.04.2020, 21:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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This. .....or chatting carelessly over a cup of coffee, or being at a gathering. I've been wondering the same thing. I feel like it has been taken something very important from us all - what makes us humans. Physical contact. Connection.

I miss my friends.
Your post resonated with me as I am quite an extrovert by nature and so this lockdown has been an interesting exercise for me. I like to keep busy and so I have been cleaning and organizing and doing tasks inside our place which I have put off (because hiking with friends seemed a much more fun option before the lockdown...lol!). My one big event, is taking my dog for an extended walk each day but I am extremely careful about distances and avoidance.

I miss my friends notwithstanding family as well both here and overseas. I have used WhatsApp video to communicate with some friends and just did a zoom conference call with my family many of whom are scattered across the US.

Thank God for technology in these isolating times

I keep thinking of my Moms's favorite adage, "This too shall pass!" I hope so and worry about new graduates looking for jobs; restaurants and small businesses trying to stay afloat; workers already laid off; healthcare workers at risk and those who are already sick or those among us who are compromised. My thoughts go out to them - such uncertain times!
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  #6326  
Old 05.04.2020, 21:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes and the doctors have no work because they perform so many unnecessary operations just to fill their own pockets and push up the crazy costs of health insurance
Not every non-urgent procedure is unnecessary.


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Like many people, I am very reluctant to go anywhere near a doctor's office or hospital.

I am supposed to receive injections every 3 months which must be given by a doctor. The specialist recommended I postpone the injection due in mid April. The question is going to be when will it be safe to have this?
The one who does the injections wants you to wait?? What is their explanation? I've always been under the impression that routine medications need to be kept on schedule, regardless of whether they're a tablet you take or an injection you receive.

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That's the thing, mild cases who aren't tested and stay home might have a tough time to distinguish allergies (polen now) causing burning sensation with sinus troubles and loss of smell and taste from Covid19. We will know more when testing is more available.
I agree, allergies right now are really ramping up. We were out on the balcony today and heard loads of sneezing and coughing from nearby flats. No worries, none are within 2 meters of us. $

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Have any of the supermarkets been spacing out the width between aisles in your local supermarket ?
I don't think that's realistic. Most shelving is fixed to the floor so it can't fall over and it's already at a set distance. It's not feasible in the small shops here to change the layout in such a way that two people can pass each other and be 2 meters apart in the middle of an aisle. Common sense says if the aisle has an occupant and you're that worried, wait until the person leaves. Otherwise, a very brief passing with your backs to each other is fine, imo.

I've managed just fine in my local shop, because they only let a handful of people in at a time. If the row I want has an occupant, I go down the next one or wait at the end.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 06.04.2020 at 13:05. Reason: editing out quote after LiB's thread clean-up
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  #6327  
Old 05.04.2020, 21:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Better general population health, better/more efficient healthcare, less concentration in one area, who knows.

Meanwhile, France with their complete lockdown has gotten nothing under control.

Bottom line: limited correlation so far between lockdowns and keeping spread at bay.

@MC - unlikely to be a factor, it’s only been like three days and only applies to supermarkets, I doubt that has had an influence (not saying it won’t have one going forward)
I think people have been wearing masks for a while there, though. Maybe their BCG vax rates are higher, who knows.
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Old 05.04.2020, 22:14
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Re: Coronavirus

For what it's worth, I'm watching the first season of "Numb3rs" again, and in episode 3, they were dealing with a pandemic flu that was spread by a scientist that wanted his company win a contract to produce the vaccine.

They had all the diagrams, all the numbers (was missing the R-nought though), all the science.

It's from 2005.
But apart from not playing out the large infection numbers (which is kinda hard to do on a 41 minutes show anyway), it was eerily similar to the news I read since January.
They had it figured out pretty much back then.

Of course, Contagion still catches the horror, the helplessness, desperation of the people and the hopelessness of the situation much better - but it does remind me of the fact that these days, nothing really comes out of the blue: there's always been a paper written that happens to spell out a certain event in alarmingly precise details. Sometimes decades ahead.

The typical politician probably gets two or three of these papers on his desk every other day. Every once in a while, the stars align and the black swan does appear.

But nobody really knows when it is and what it is.

Don't rely on politicians. Or not only. You can't do that, unfortunately. At least, most of the time.
Because they can't plan for every contingency either. The world is imperfect, incomplete and unfair, most of the time.
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  #6329  
Old 05.04.2020, 22:28
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Re: Coronavirus

Boris Johnson has been admitted to hospital now.

Jesus, hope he recovers.

We've already lost one bumbling aristocratic womanising Bullingdon club member today to coronavirus (Lord Bath).

Last edited by jorido; 05.04.2020 at 22:58.
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  #6330  
Old 05.04.2020, 23:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Better general population health, better/more efficient healthcare, less concentration in one area, who knows.
Or perhaps Austria had one of the earliest strict lockdowns.
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Old 05.04.2020, 23:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Or perhaps Austria had one of the earliest strict lockdowns.
Nope, same rules as Switzerland, same timeline, give or take one day.

As much as everyone is desperately trying to find correlations (not even mentioning causality) between those insane measures and their promised effect, there are apparently rather few or, in some places, none. Which automatically means other factors are more important. Focus should definitely be redirected on those, but it seems no one wants to hear that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/o...istancing.html A different suggestion, from a physician no less, while a couple of weeks ago, still valid. Though too late in parts for a speedy turnaround, but obviously still the absolute only option, by now even in the near-term.
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  #6332  
Old 05.04.2020, 23:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting, it seems Austria is doing better than anybody else, new cases per day are decreasing drastically every day. What have they done right? (other than blocking Italians from entering, right from the beginning of the explosion in Lombardy)
Whilst that's true, we aren't too far behind in Switzerland. I guess we are more reliant on cross border commuters.

I guess also we have a sizeable Romance language speaking population, and they've faired less well in general. I don't pretend to know why that is (big family units?).
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Old 05.04.2020, 23:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nope, same rules as Switzerland, same timeline, give or take one day.

As much as everyone is desperately trying to find correlations (not even mentioning causality) between those insane measures and their effect, there are apparently very few or none. Which automatically means other factors are more important. Focus should definitely be redirected on those, but I guess no one wants to hear that.
Or simply the most logical explanation possible.

Smaller amount of infected people before restrictions came into place.

Also it helps if you deliberately let it spread freely in very small communities with tons of tourists for economical reasons and than most of the infected people fly home after their holiday so all you have to do is close of some small places while you let it roam through Europe..
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  #6334  
Old 05.04.2020, 23:23
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Re: Coronavirus

will be worth it to survive even if just to see how it all plays out in the end. better suspense than in a top director's movie...
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Old 05.04.2020, 23:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Also it helps if you deliberately let it spread freely in very small communities with tons of tourists for economical reasons and than most of the infected people fly home after their holiday so all you have to do is close of some small places while you let it roam through Europe..
Jup. Because creating mass panic and thereby diverting and wasting valuable resources is working out so much better.
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  #6336  
Old 05.04.2020, 23:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Whilst that's true, we aren't too far behind in Switzerland. I guess we are more reliant on cross border commuters.

I guess also we have a sizeable Romance language speaking population, and they've faired less well in general. I don't pretend to know why that is (big family units?).
No, if you notice where the infection spread a lot in CH, VD, TI and ZH - all areas with a lot of foreign work commuters. And they were allowed to pour in for relatively long. They are also regions where tourists probably still travelled in groups till the last moment.

Why Austria holds well I think (and here too) is because when the measures happened, people really buckled up, in a big disciplined way, trusting that the measures had a good reason. I wrote further up that CZ is now transporting French Covid19 patients to CZ to help the French healthcare system. It feels a bit wrong when you see pictures from today in Paris and so many people just hanging out and enjoying sunshine. People like sunshine here too, but it was empty here. Ghost town, I am honestly proud of the common sense here.
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Old 05.04.2020, 23:53
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Re: Coronavirus

According to the BMJ, 4/5ths of people who contract the virus may be asymptomatic https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375
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  #6338  
Old 05.04.2020, 23:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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According to the BMJ, 4/5ths of people who contract the virus may be asymptomatic https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375
Yes, it's been said a while back, too. I think this is behind the Swedish strategy (and a few other places).
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  #6339  
Old 06.04.2020, 00:03
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No, if you notice where the infection spread a lot in CH, VD, TI and ZH - all areas with a lot of foreign work commuters.
... whom you can’t all keep out as so many of them work in the healthcare sector (though apparently now many of them seem to be bored due to insufficient workload, as we read earlier in the thread - still can’t wrap my head around that)

And jorido isn’t wrong about the family units. Still much more normal in parts of the South for families to live with or very near each other, even across generations, or at the very least have much more social interaction in larger groups. Quite possibly a factor, aside from many others (which again don’t seem to receive much attention anywhere)
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Old 06.04.2020, 00:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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... whom you can’t all keep out as so many of them work in the healthcare sector (though apparently now many of them seem to be bored due to insufficient workload, as we read earlier in the thread - still can’t wrap my head around that).
The work will come I think. EMSs are starting to have tough times, hospitals are ready.

Some frontaliers do work in healthcare, but some don't and had commuted for quite a bit before things tightened up. I think it was enough to feed some of the stats in VD, TI and ZH.

A lot of healthcare frontaliers are kept here, volunteers house them, it is lovely!
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