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  #6541  
Old 07.04.2020, 12:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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His life is not worth more than others.
And yet, so many more people's lives and livelihoods depend directly or indirectly upon his decisions, than, say, upon mine.
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  #6542  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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As PM he could have a private duty doctor or nurse, have various treatments private or at home, he goes to the NHS and uses a highly valued NHS bed so at that point to me he should be in the same queueing system as everyone else.

His life is not worth more than others.
LOL, and will you blame him when he doesn't make important decisions because he's waiting in a queue in the hospital?
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  #6543  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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yes, of course- which in those days was a part of Casualty and manned by same staff. But you are right.
No.

ICU/ITU has always been separate to A&E/Casualty. There are separate areas of A&E - where anyone can walk in wounded to those folk rushed in from the ambulance through the big doors. ICU is separate, more secure area that you can't just get into.

Manned by separate staff. They'll all have the same basic training but then specialise.

Source: my mum who worked in UK hospitals for years, starting in the 60s up until her retirement in 2013.
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  #6544  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sounds very neo-marxist.


When it suits.
So you are saying Donald Trump is neo-marxist? Perhaps you ought to re-think that one.

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As PM he could have a private duty doctor or nurse, have various treatments private or at home, he goes to the NHS and uses a highly valued NHS bed so at that point to me he should be in the same queueing system as everyone else.
So you think a doctor ought to be tied up permanently to one person?

There are no private hospitals in the U.K. that have the same level of intensive care equipment as the NHS ones. (And you are suggesting he gets treated at home?)
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  #6545  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:11
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Re: Coronavirus

Wonder if this will spread.

A couple of insurance companies in the US are giving refunds/discounts on their car insurance policies to drivers stuck at home.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52194521
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  #6546  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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As PM he could have a private duty doctor or nurse, have various treatments private or at home, he goes to the NHS and uses a highly valued NHS bed so at that point to me he should be in the same queueing system as everyone else.

His life is not worth more than others.
On which level - spiritual, philosophical, ethical? Then no, his life is not worth more than others. On a practical level though, his function/position entitles him to legally benefit from the best possible care. It comes with the function. You might not like it, but it is what it is.

I've heard the same discussions back home about doctors' salaries, some people were screaming they don't deserve more than other categories..... Seriously? I'd like to see the same people now...
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  #6547  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wonder if this will spread.

A couple of insurance companies in the US are giving refunds/discounts on their car insurance policies to drivers stuck at home.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52194521
I saw that in the news yesterday and I highly doubt that it will spread.
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  #6548  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Situationsbericht zur epidemiologischen Lage in der Schweiz und im Fürstentum Liechtenstein

Date - Total tests
07.04.2020 - 167 429 (15% positive)
06.04.2020 - 162’500 (15% positive)
02.04.2020 - 139'330 (15% positive)
31.03.2020 - 123'150 (13% poitive)
30.03.2020 - 116'700 (13% positive)
27.03.2020 - 97’012 (12% positive)
25.03.2020 - ca. 84'000 (12% positive)
Not stated if number of test is the same as number of different persons.

Someone at the BAG must be reading EF. Today's update includes this sentence. "mehrere positive oder negative Tests bei derselben Person sind möglich". Multiple positive or negative tests by the same person are possible. Or in other words: Number of positive tests =/= number of infected persons.

Note: added today's number.

The total weekly number of deaths (any cause) have not been announced yet. Today the numbers for the week from March 23rd to 29th should be published.
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home...ses-death.html
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  #6549  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why not, he's the PM after all?
Why are Brits so self-hating towards the establishment and yet everytime I say "God shave the queen" I get odd looks?
It's nothing to do with 'establishment'. Currently in the UK, only approx. 50% of covid patients admitted to ICU are surviving. That environment will also inevitably have a high viral load, which is why we've seen over a dozen frontline staff die in recent days. In these specific circumstances, you wouldn't willingly put a patient in that environment unless it was absolutely necessary.

Anyway, Michael Gove, who has now gone into isolation himself as a 'family member' displayed symptoms (his wife is journalist Sarah Vine), has been on LBC radio today with this...

The Cabinet Office minister said Boris Johnson "has not been on a ventilator" but has received "oxygen support" - in a separate interview earlier with LBC.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-care-11969756
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  #6550  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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As PM he could have a private duty doctor or nurse, have various treatments private or at home, he goes to the NHS and uses a highly valued NHS bed so at that point to me he should be in the same queueing system as everyone else.
That's not accurate. Currently, UK private health care is acting as one with the NHS and has been doing for a few weeks now.

23 March 2020:
Additional beds, staff and intensive care equipment have been made available as private hospitals pitch in to support the NHS through the coronavirus outbreak.

A deal has been made between NHS England and the independent sector to allow for an additional 10,000 nurses to join the health service's response to Covid-19.

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/co...es-23-03-2020/
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  #6551  
Old 07.04.2020, 13:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's impossible to do randomised testing. The BCG vaccine creates a unique blister and then a scar on your shoulder.

The real randomised testing is the natural experiment of countries with mandatory BCG vaccination and countries that don't apply that vaccine.
Actually doesn't always. I've had it and have no scar.

Anyway here you don't need randomised testing. The BCGs were given years ago so the population and control already exist. Just need to compare infection and recovery/death rates.
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  #6552  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:17
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Re: Coronavirus

Anyone else heard of the European Civil Protection Mechanism being activated? It is based on volunteers from medical staff - doctors and nurses. Romania, where I come from, has sent a team of doctors and nurses to Lombardia to help the staff from there. They're being transported by military planes.
We know from MC that CZ is taking patients from France and Switzerland does the same too. Anyone else? Any...sign of solidarity with Italy on the official level? I'd love to hear that.
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  #6553  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think the context of what I meant was clear unless you are aiming to be somewhat pedantic... regardless of any shifted responsibilities he is still the PM and still needs to get back to running the country as soon as he is able. That is best done by keeping him in the best health possible at any given time. The two goals are linked and the point of the post was that he does deserve special treatment due to his elevated position.
That's soooooo yesterday: "Boris Johnson 'in charge' from hospital bed, Dominic Raab says despite not having talked to PM since Saturday" : https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-dominic-raab/

Today, only 19 hours later: "Who is Dominic Rennie Raab? Where did he come from and how did he end up as our putative national leader and de facto acting Prime Minister deputising for a stricken Boris Johnson as First Secretary of State?" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...aab-good-gets/

le roi est mort, vive le roi! The discussion about special treatment will go into oblivion quite soon.
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  #6554  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Anyone else heard of the European Civil Protection Mechanism being activated? It is based on volunteers from medical staff - doctors and nurses. Romania, where I come from, has sent a team of doctors and nurses to Lombardia to help the staff from there. They're being transported by military planes.
We know from MC that CZ is taking patients from France and Switzerland does the same too. Anyone else? Any...sign of solidarity with Italy on the official level? I'd love to hear that.
Thats nice to hear, beats the usual talk of the failure of European unity.
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  #6555  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the press conference of the Swiss Federal Council of 03.04.2020, they mentioned that a solution has been found for Garden Centres. See https://www.englishforum.ch/housing-...ml#post3167214
That's some good news at least, these business make about 70% of their annual revenue at this time of year and are at severe risk not being able to trade as normal.
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  #6556  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Actually doesn't always. I've had it and have no scar.

Anyway here you don't need randomised testing. The BCGs were given years ago so the population and control already exist. Just need to compare infection and recovery/death rates.
Indeed, the natural experiment is already unintentionally set. But, it would be good to know before the pandemic ends due to natural causes.
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  #6557  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why not, he's the PM after all?
Why are Brits so self-hating towards the establishment
I'm not.

I don't think Boris Johnson should get special treatment, but I think the PM of the UK should. It's worth it for political stability (yes, I know we're talking about Boris).
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  #6558  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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Then you are, unfortunately, delusional as to the realities of the situation and therefore not thinking rationally.
Wow, you felt the need to be insulting.

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So you are saying Donald Trump is neo-marxist? Perhaps you ought to re-think that one.



So you think a doctor ought to be tied up permanently to one person?

There are no private hospitals in the U.K. that have the same level of intensive care equipment as the NHS ones. (And you are suggesting he gets treated at home?)
Why couldn't he have a private doctor? He isn't intubated, the press seem to say it's not serious, yet he's in ICU, why? Doesn't add up.
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  #6559  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thats nice to hear, beats the usual talk of the failure of European unity.
You know what they say - better later than never.... Morale of the medical staff is very low in some places. Every little help counts.
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  #6560  
Old 07.04.2020, 14:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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better later than never....
Is that going to be the new EU motto?

The EU is quite rightly going to come in for a lot of criticism when this is all over. They saved no one, they helped no one, they did nothing. There was no coordination, no plan, no message, no leadership and subsequently no point. They've spent 40 years taking people's money, making laws and pushing bits of paper around. The EU is not Europe and its woeful incompetence has been laid bare for the whole of Europe to see.

Oh, and WHO too!!
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