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  #6561  
Old 07.04.2020, 15:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thats nice to hear, beats the usual talk of the failure of European unity.
I think if you thank doctors in CZ for helping the EU, they will not be happy and correct your gratitude. In fact, I do not think that. I know that.
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why couldn't he have a private doctor? He isn't intubated, the press seem to say it's not serious, yet he's in ICU, why? Doesn't add up.
Either way, I am sure if he had a private doctor, he would still be criticized for not doing the stuff that everyone else has to do. Some people suffer an unproportional amount of attention and criticism, being a PM comes with it.
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  #6563  
Old 07.04.2020, 15:08
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Re: Coronavirus

I think even the Tory spin doctors would have a hard time defending private medical care for the leader of The People.


Plus, as Tom has pointed out, there is no private emergency care, it's all NHS.

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  #6564  
Old 07.04.2020, 15:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Oh, and WHO too!!
Don't get me started..
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  #6565  
Old 07.04.2020, 15:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is that going to be the new EU motto?
No, I don't think so. I don't even know if there will be a new EU.
EU will be criticised and rightly so after this crisis will (hopefully soon) end. On the other hand, some will prefer to be part of the solution and some not. Each to their own. Most people have no time for euroscepticism right now. It's easy to bash EU and USA, you must know that. Even easier these days. I personally think it's not the right time anyway, many countries are on their knees. We can have this discussion later, now it seems like opportunism. It's opportunistic politics that everyone in their right mind wants to avoid these days. Later.
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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As PM he could have a private duty doctor or nurse, have various treatments private or at home, he goes to the NHS and uses a highly valued NHS bed so at that point to me he should be in the same queueing system as everyone else.

His life is not worth more than others.
Perhaps his life is not "worth" more than others, but the person who is very sick gets more treatment than someone with mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. He's clearly not well.

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...Why couldn't he have a private doctor? He isn't intubated, the press seem to say it's not serious, yet he's in ICU, why? Doesn't add up.
Private doctors can be amazing, but when someone is seriously ill there is no substitute for a fully equipped hospital and its staff. I am sure he had a doctor or even team of doctors tending to him at #10 before his condition deteriorated. I doubt he made the choice by himself to go to hospital, because he knows how it looks to the public. He would have listened to his body and his doctors.

I have not heard the press say it's not serious, at least not since he's been moved to ICU.

ICU is serious business. People there are very sick and require extra care and attention. The fact his team says he's in good spirits doesn't mean he's fit as a fiddle. He's on fluids and medications and probably a high level of oxygen, maybe even with a modified CPAP in hopes that he doesn't get bad enough to need a ventilator.

He's obviously sick enough that the health professionals see a risk he could need intubation or other intensive treatment at any moment. ICU is where you get the most intensive care, after all.
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is that going to be the new EU motto?

The EU is quite rightly going to come in for a lot of criticism when this is all over. They saved no one, they helped no one, they did nothing. There was no coordination, no plan, no message, no leadership and subsequently no point. They've spent 40 years taking people's money, making laws and pushing bits of paper around. The EU is not Europe and its woeful incompetence has been laid bare for the whole of Europe to see.

Oh, and WHO too!!
So, somewhat like the Federal government in the USA?
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wow, you felt the need to be insulting.



Why couldn't he have a private doctor? He isn't intubated, the press seem to say it's not serious, yet he's in ICU, why? Doesn't add up.
ICU allows for better monitoring and if needed a ventilator is right there on stand-by, they had the space to do so and nobody said since yesterday evening it is not serious and he is prime-minister.

But if you prefer some conspiracy....
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is that going to be the new EU motto?

The EU is quite rightly going to come in for a lot of criticism when this is all over. They saved no one, they helped no one, they did nothing. There was no coordination, no plan, no message, no leadership and subsequently no point. They've spent 40 years taking people's money, making laws and pushing bits of paper around. The EU is not Europe and its woeful incompetence has been laid bare for the whole of Europe to see
So what do you think they should have been doing? Containment and isolation measures are best handled on a local level - I would argue that even national is too large a scope in some cases - Italy would have been better served with a very early lockdown in the north only, the UK with London.

They did do some decent work on ventilators (which the UK Brexiters conspicuously screwed up by not joining), also by not insisting on freedom of movement at a time when that clearly had to be temporarily halted. Otherwise their role comes after the crisis in trying to clean up the economic mess of at least 3 very screwed economies (Greece. Spain and Italy) from the effect of a complete loss of the summer tourist season. That ain't going to be easy.
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think if you thank doctors in CZ for helping the EU, they will not be happy and correct your gratitude. In fact, I do not think that. I know that.
Well thank you for knowing that doctors would correct me if I went thanking them for something I was not thanking them for.

I never mentioned the EU, an idea of European unity is not unique to the EU, it's good to see some cross border assistance in this, also stops the Russians grandstanding on their medical deliveries.
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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The EU is quite rightly going to come in for a lot of criticism when this is all over. They saved no one, they helped no one, they did nothing.
And if the EU did there would be heavy criticisms that the EU is overstepping its bounds and overreaching into its members independence as providing health care is non of the EUs business. The EU has no jurisdiction or any say in it and it is the full and sole responsibility of the member states to provide health care. Nice loose-loose situation for the EU. Easy win for the uninformed EU critics which give a damn about what the EU is and can actually do. (Goes for the WHO as well, which actually took heavy flak for its too cautious and too alarmistic (in hindsight!) handling of the 2009 Influence A(H1N1) situation).

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[The European] Union action shall respect the responsibilities of the Member States for the definition of their health policy and for the organisation and delivery of health services and medical care. The responsibilities of the Member States shall include the management of health services and medical care and the allocation of the resources assigned to them.
Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, Article 168, Section 7.

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“The risk of [Wuhan coronavirus] becoming more widespread globally remains high. Now is the moment for all countries to be preparing themselves,”
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Old 07.04.2020, 15:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Perhaps his life is not "worth" more than others, but the person who is very sick gets more treatment than someone with mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. He's clearly not well.



Private doctors can be amazing, but when someone is seriously ill there is no substitute for a fully equipped hospital and its staff. I am sure he had a doctor or even team of doctors tending to him at #10 before his condition deteriorated. I doubt he made the choice by himself to go to hospital, because he knows how it looks to the public. He would have listened to his body and his doctors.

I have not heard the press say it's not serious, at least not since he's been moved to ICU.

ICU is serious business. People there are very sick and require extra care and attention. The fact his team says he's in good spirits doesn't mean he's fit as a fiddle. He's on fluids and medications and probably a high level of oxygen, maybe even with a modified CPAP in hopes that he doesn't get bad enough to need a ventilator.

He's obviously sick enough that the health professionals see a risk he could need intubation or other intensive treatment at any moment. ICU is where you get the most intensive care, after all.
They said he didn't have a cpap either.
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  #6573  
Old 07.04.2020, 16:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well thank you for knowing that doctors would correct me if I went thanking them for something I was not thanking them for.

I never mentioned the EU, an idea of European unity is not unique to the EU, it's good to see some cross border assistance in this, also stops the Russians grandstanding on their medical deliveries.
Oh yeah.

I am not sure about European unity. Docs are helping patients, I should be there and interpret.
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Old 07.04.2020, 16:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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So lets get this straight... do you not, thinking logically and rationally, think that the person leading a country deserves any special treatment in order to try to ensure that they remain capable of doing so?

He is not a regular guy, he is the Prime Minister. Obviously he is going to get the highest levels of treatment possible even if those are not accessible to other people in the same situation. It's just basic common sense.
For those not familiar with St Thomas's hospital - yes it is a NHS hospital but World leading and the treatment one gets there is second to none no matter who you are.

I was unwell in December - went to A & E there thinking I would be there for hours - I was seen within 4 minutes. I saw 5 different Drs and the kindness and expertise paid to me reduced me to tears. I have experienced both types of hospital - private and NHS and my experience is that if Boris was admitted as an emergency there any other patient would have the same treatment. A colleague of mine was admitted recently and had amazing treatment and was lucky to survive..
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Old 07.04.2020, 17:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Trump is not an actual EF member, though he's obviously inspiring lots of EFers. His supporters seem to have lost any inhibitions. Yet they expect good behaviour from others.

There's a difference you know.
But he is a member. He thanks me with EVERY post!
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Old 07.04.2020, 17:21
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Re: Coronavirus

Paris bans day time outdoor activities (10am-7pm).
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Old 07.04.2020, 17:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Anyone else heard of the European Civil Protection Mechanism being activated? It is based on volunteers from medical staff - doctors and nurses. Romania, where I come from, has sent a team of doctors and nurses to Lombardia to help the staff from there. They're being transported by military planes.
We know from MC that CZ is taking patients from France and Switzerland does the same too. Anyone else? Any...sign of solidarity with Italy on the official level? I'd love to hear that.

Saxony took in some patients from Lombardy as early as 23 March, it seems that other Länder have done the same, from Italy and also from France.

source (in italian): https://www.linkiesta.it/2020/04/cor...enti-italiani/
https://www.corriere.it/esteri/20_ma...4f5268fe.shtml
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Old 07.04.2020, 17:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Paris bans day time outdoor activities (10am-7pm).
You mean sporting activities
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  #6579  
Old 07.04.2020, 17:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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You mean sporting activities
Yes, outdoor exercise, I meant. I think other activities like walking to a shop or a pharmacy are ok
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Old 07.04.2020, 18:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Just heard an update on Boris Johnson. Granted, it was reported on CNN....but anyway.... oh, so now there’s an update from Raab saying the same thing.

Johnson is receiving oxygen, is breathing on his own. Has not been intubated, is not receiving any mechanical breathing assistance. The CNN reporter says that the iCU admission was a precaution - so he would have immediate access to critical care as needed.

His condition is “stable” . People say this in the US too, but in the US, it’s not an official condition released by any hospital.
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