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  #6861  
Old 10.04.2020, 14:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Beirut, Lebanon safer place in times of corona for US citizens, most refuse to be repatriated to the US.

Can't blame them at all

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/09/m...ntl/index.html
It is amazing how you keep advocating that the lockdown is overreacting behaviour from governments and makes no difference, and yet you keep putting down links that state that lockdowns work.

Just make up your mind.
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  #6862  
Old 10.04.2020, 14:54
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Re: Coronavirus

I think people are casting about for reasons why there are differences in susceptibility to the virus and also death rates. It will be a while before there is a coherent picture. It's the same thing as comparing Covid-19 to seasonal influenza. You've got months of data of questionable quality versus years of data. The error bars on those estimates must be huge.

In the US, in Chicago and New Orleans, roughly 30% of the population is black, while blacks make up about 70% of deaths associated with Covid-19. (ETA - my mistake 30% for the state of Louisiana , not just New Orleans.)

I'm not sure it's politicising it to say that if these folks are poorer, have less space and have a more difficult time finding places where they can practice social distance, and don't seek health care because they can't afford or don't have access to it. The same this is true, I believe in portions of Israel that are overcrowded and poorer - many of these areas are inhabited by very observant Jews. Is it religion or overall demographics. The thing that you have to do is to look at the demographics of those who die regardless of race/religion, etc.

I've seen studies of blood types, ACE receptors and social structure among others. It's just too early to tell, so people are grasping at straws. Media are desperate for any sort of news, and so they report snippets when they understand neither the research nor the completeness of the data. The media push for conclusions when there aren't any. I know that uncertainty is hard, but it's what we have right now.


I hope this really results in a push to encourage numerical literacy in schools. I also hope this results in a way to look at businesses outside their boxes. We'll see.......

Last edited by ennui; 10.04.2020 at 17:16.
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  #6863  
Old 10.04.2020, 15:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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The media push for conclusions when there aren't any.
It has always been this way. Unintelligent media push for premature conclusions. Unintelligent debates push for conclusions instead of people learning to listen to and respect different opinions and learning from the process. This is far from new. It is not Covid specific, nor school of thought specific. I wonder if sensationalism in reporting will be more obvious to more population now, and how much it is hurting them.

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I hope this really results in a push to encourage numerical literacy in schools.
I understand the high hopes for numerical literacy, in terns of hope for help to learn to be smarter and healthier. But the world in general has plenty of opportunity to be numerically literate. Kids learnt to study online within a week here Cellphones are walking computers. Kids created study groups and help eachother more than in normal times.Good education or higher chances in life don't necessarily equal numerical literacy. In my experience kids learn and do well when family prioritizes them. Across the social spectrum. Just an opinion, though.
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  #6864  
Old 10.04.2020, 15:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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But the world in general has plenty of opportunity to be numerically literate. Kids learnt to study online within a week here Cellphones are walking computers. Kids created study groups and help eachother more than in normal times.Good education or higher chances in life don't necessarily equal numerical literacy. In my experience kids learn and do well when family prioritizes them. Across the social spectrum. Just an opinion, though.
This is true where there is sufficient wealth to own the pc, the laptop, the phone, the bandwidth, access to TV shows and radio programmes that are teaching, etc., and where the family has the wealth to prioritize giving the child the opportunity, and where the parents themselves have scholastic skills to support the children's learning at home.

Right now, however, there are millions of children, worldwide, (though admittedly fewer in Switzerland) who are now simply falling right through the gaps.
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  #6865  
Old 10.04.2020, 15:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is true where there is sufficient wealth to own the pc, the laptop, the phone, the bandwidth, access to TV shows and radio programmes that are teaching, etc., and where the family has the wealth to prioritize giving the child the opportunity, and where the parents themselves have scholastic skills to support the children's learning at home.

Right now, however, there are millions of children, worldwide, (though admittedly fewer in Switzerland) who are now simply falling right through the gaps.
But of course! It is a complex problem and certainly not to be reduced to a numerical literacy access only.

And then there are also children who fall through the cracks of their wealthy families throwing money at them and no attention. They look for attention online.
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  #6866  
Old 10.04.2020, 16:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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It has always been this way. Unintelligent media push for premature conclusions. Unintelligent debates push for conclusions instead of people learning to listen to and respect different opinions and learning from the process. This is far from new. It is not Covid specific, nor school of thought specific. I wonder if sensationalism in reporting will be more obvious to more population now, and how much it is hurting them.



I understand the high hopes for numerical literacy, in terns of hope for help to learn to be smarter and healthier. But the world in general has plenty of opportunity to be numerically literate. Kids learnt to study online within a week here Cellphones are walking computers. Kids created study groups and help eachother more than in normal times.Good education or higher chances in life don't necessarily equal numerical literacy. In my experience kids learn and do well when family prioritizes them. Across the social spectrum. Just an opinion, though.
So maybe parents/adults need numerical literacy. I can see that. But I guess it goes hand in hand with sensationalism. It's easy to fall prey to the sensationalist headline and story - it's what fuels unintelligent media.

And yeah, media are sensationalist. But we still need to call it out again and again - maybe the informative stuff will stick.

Your observations on learning practices are interesting and encouraging. How large and diverse is your sample?
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  #6867  
Old 10.04.2020, 16:16
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Re: Coronavirus

President of CFF announced that the tickets will keep the same prices.
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  #6868  
Old 10.04.2020, 16:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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So maybe parents/adults need numerical literacy.
They have it, imho. But how many adults use technology to actually learn stuff?
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  #6869  
Old 10.04.2020, 16:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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They have it, imho. But how many adults use technology to actually learn stuff?
I‘m not really understanding your post, as a highly respected teacher?
The country is in lock-down, and people like my daughter are trying to complete their masters from home on-line. Did I miss something?
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  #6870  
Old 10.04.2020, 16:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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I hope this really results in a push to encourage numerical literacy in schools.
Critical thinking would be a good thing as well.
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  #6871  
Old 10.04.2020, 16:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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And yeah, media are sensationalist. But we still need to call it out again and again - maybe the informative stuff will stick.
No chance.

One of my most hated examples is the headlines that run something like "A new study published today shows...." followed somewhere in the text by "the results, while not statistically significant..." AAAArgh

TBF though, stats are inherently confusing, and most people find it impossible to accept that stats can mean that apparently clear evidence is meaningless.

Only after I'd been designing, writing, implementing and maintaining stats systems for about fifteen years was I myself convinced, when I took an internal course "stats for non-statisticians".

We learned to hand-calculate some basic statistical functions, leading to P value and Confidence Intervals, that sort of thing, then used it in a real hands-on experiment. Each team had a bag of 100 marbles, some black, some white, and each drew ten marbles blind from the bag, to then infer what the ratio was in each bag. The results were completely clear, that one bag was approx 80/20. one 60/40 etc. and we were all happy to draw this conclusion. Until we did the sums, that showed that the chances of getting such a result were just as likely from any given distribution within each bag, and that our results were therefore meaningless, or as in the above terminology, not statistically significant. We didn't believe it.

Then we 'unblinded' by opening the bags, only to find that each one contained exactly 50 black and 50 white marbles. Stats had won the day, and we all walked out with a new respect for the discipline.

Most of the attendees were medics or other PhD level scientists, all of whom would have used statistical measures many times over the decades, but most of whom were as blown away by the result as I was.
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  #6872  
Old 10.04.2020, 16:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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No chance.

One of my most hated examples is the headlines that run something like "A new study published today shows...." followed somewhere in the text by "the results, while not statistically significant..." AAAArgh

TBF though, stats are inherently confusing, and most people find it impossible to accept that stats can mean that apparently clear evidence is meaningless.
I don’t think they have to be inherently confusing, though.
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Old 10.04.2020, 16:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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I‘m not really understanding your post, as a highly respected teacher?
The country is in lock-down, and people like my daughter are trying to complete their masters from home on-line. Did I miss something?
Of course. How many adults are now trying to complete their masters online? A fraction. The fact that it is a great way to work/learn/feed one's curiosity does not mean that it is predominantly used this way. Good luck to her!!
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Old 10.04.2020, 16:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the US, in Chicago and New Orleans, roughly 30% of the population is black, while blacks make up about 70% of deaths associated with Covid-19.


..... snip


I hope this really results in a push to encourage numerical literacy in schools. I also hope this results in a way to look at businesses outside their boxes. We'll see.......
I hope your numbers -literacy- is correct, cause roughly 30% of the population being african-american is too little for New Orleans (and I have never been there to tell).

But, according to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of New Orleans was: Black or African American: 59.74% White: 33.99% Asian: 2.90%

Last edited by fkdstm; 10.04.2020 at 18:36.
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Old 10.04.2020, 16:59
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They have it, imho. But how many adults use technology to actually learn stuff?
What an incredible and, if I may say, arrogant thing to say, wow.

But of course the original has been edited to read totally differently- the original is quoted above.

Last edited by Odile; 10.04.2020 at 20:32.
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Old 10.04.2020, 17:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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What an incredible and, if I may say, arrogant thing to say, wow.
What an arrogant way to misinterpret. There is nothing wrong with entertainment. It is like TV. Not everybody uses it to learn, or all the time, Odile, and why should they! We sing to it during The Voice! Breathe, Odile...breathe.

The question was whether numerical literacy automatically means being educated or granting it..

Last edited by MusicChick; 10.04.2020 at 17:11.
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  #6877  
Old 10.04.2020, 17:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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I hope your numbers literacy is correct, cause rouhgly 30% of the population being african-american is too little for New Orleans (and I have never been there to tell).

But, according to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of New Orleans was: Black or African American: 59.74% White: 33.99% Asian: 2.90%
My apologies.....it should have been Louisiana, not New Orleans. thanks for pointing out my error.
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Old 10.04.2020, 17:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course. How many adults are now trying to complete their masters online? A fraction. The fact that it is a great way to work/learn/feed one's curiosity does not mean that it is predominantly used this way.
Why not? A lot of teaching is done through the internet nowadays. I´ve done my last masters through an online offering and several degrees/courses before that.
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Old 10.04.2020, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why not? A lot of teaching is done through the internet nowadays. I´ve done my last masters through an online offering and several degrees/courses before that.
OK, I see that this is going in the wrong direction.

My daughter is doing her masters at a Swiss University. I/we lived many, many years on the existential minimum, while she was working toward this.

It’s now her last semester of studies (hopefully), and we’re getting around it, takes even more adjustment. But it‘s still OK
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Old 10.04.2020, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Critical thinking would be a good thing as well.
This! And most probably some reading comprehension!
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