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Old 12.04.2020, 13:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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do you know how they go after potential spread? just curious, like what they do actually?
There was a report on Euronews this morning, check their web if it is there..There are EFers based in Germany, maybe they know better.

In CZ they go after up to 100 posible contacts of one positive person. Teams who test, drive around. I wish we tested more and faster.

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.04.2020 at 14:53.
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Old 12.04.2020, 13:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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There are multiple at-risk groups, not just the old including now, it is claimed, the obese.
It's interesting that the risk group is not defined by the same list of factors everywhere.
Switzerland's list, here https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...-menschen.html does not include obesity. Though there is a fairly high correlation between diabetes and obesity, many people have either, without the other.
  • The coronavirus can pose a serious risk to people over the age of 65 and to those with underlying medical conditions. We have to make every effort to protect them.

    People with one of the following underlying medical conditions are at a higher risk of becoming severely ill:
  • Cancer
  • Cardiovascular disease
  • Chronic respiratory diseases
  • Conditions and therapies that weaken the immune system
  • Diabetes
  • High blood pressure


I read (but can't remember where) that in some places smoking is officially on the risk list. And that there is at least a hypothesis that Vitamin D deficiency ought to be on the list.

And then I read a funny annecdote from a man with severe high blood pressure, who thereby couldn't go to work during Corona, and being away from his office environment did him so much good that his blood-pressure has come down close to normal, for the first time in ages.
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Old 12.04.2020, 14:03
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Re: Coronavirus

Regarding death statistics for Spain, you can go to
https://momo.isciii.es/public/momo/d....html#nacional for national level statistics, or click on CCAA to see the data for each region.

Or you have reports published over the last weeks on
https://www.isciii.es/QueHacemos/Ser...MoMo-2020.aspx

Very important, in some regions there is a significant delay in the notifications and the data for the last X days is incomplete, but you cannot solve for X.
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Old 12.04.2020, 14:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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In my home country you can find this data here (webpage of National Institute of Public Health), as far as I noticed in the media they're actualised daily.
Some how the link got lost and was included in your post and the other link provided unfortunately only shows COVID-19 related information but not deaths.

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Old 12.04.2020, 14:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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It’s not exactly what’s happening if I look out my window and watch the joggers and Velo Fahrers with their increased aerosol output, in parallel or triple, and not even a meter in-between. And also only making a very short curve of about a cm in front, to the side and from behind me. Making it impossible for anyone to even go for a walk around the block, let alone your usual Forest path to keep their blood pressure down.

Whatever anyone else is doing, both generations in our household are staying at home to protect all. Not only our own household. I think you’ll find we’re not alone. Even if we don’t feel vulnerable, despite one of us being in a high risk category.
The oldies in my block are coming and going and coming multiple times in the day - I've never seen them this active!
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Old 12.04.2020, 14:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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There are multiple at-risk groups, not just the old including now, it is claimed, the obese.
I've read that 90% of the corona patients on IC in Holland have overweight.
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Old 12.04.2020, 14:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's interesting that the risk group is not defined by the same list of factors everywhere.
Switzerland's list, here https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...-menschen.html does not include obesity. Though there is a fairly high correlation between diabetes and obesity, many people have either, without the other.
  • The coronavirus can pose a serious risk to people over the age of 65 and to those with underlying medical conditions. We have to make every effort to protect them.

    People with one of the following underlying medical conditions are at a higher risk of becoming severely ill:
  • Cancer
  • Cardiovascular disease
  • Chronic respiratory diseases
  • Conditions and therapies that weaken the immune system
  • Diabetes
  • High blood pressure


I read (but can't remember where) that in some places smoking is officially on the risk list. And that there is at least a hypothesis that Vitamin D deficiency ought to be on the list.

And then I read a funny annecdote from a man with severe high blood pressure, who thereby couldn't go to work during Corona, and being away from his office environment did him so much good that his blood-pressure has come down close to normal, for the first time in ages.

The exact opposite for the smoking thing. Sud-Ouest just this morning posted this article about how shocked the medical field is that there are not more smokers in réanimation. Their working theory, completely unproven, is that tobacco might actually be an inhibitant to the virus.https://www.sudouest.fr/2020/04/10/c...1913-10861.php
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Old 12.04.2020, 14:42
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Re: Coronavirus

Boris Johnson discharged from hospital.
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Old 12.04.2020, 14:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've read that 90% of the corona patients on IC in Holland have overweight.
Yep, 15% of the Dutch population has a BMI of 30 or higher, they do however amount for about 65% to 90% of IC population due to Corona (depending on which hospital you look).

Normally Obese people do have on average a better chance on the IC due to their fat and energy reserves.

However with Corona infections they have a few disabilities.

1. In bellyfat there is a constant production of small infections and hormones, due to this the immune system is working on a higher rate constantly causing it to recognise new intruders later, thus giving the virus a better chance of multiplying.

2. They often have other conditions like heart and vein problems or diabetes 2 causing them to get infections and pneumonia more easily.

3. Corona makes a lot of white blood bodies disappear thus weakening the already weak immune system of obese people even more.

4. Due to ACE-2 receptors also sticking to fat tissue and Coronavirus sticking to these ACE-2 receptors the virus more easily gets further in the body than it otherwise would.

5. A big belly is a disadvantage when needing to be turned since it causes more pressure on the lungs, so more force is used to insert the tubes and more air pressure is needed.

In short: they recognise the virus later, they have more trouble to fight it when recognised, the virus runs deeper in the body and they are harder to treat, they are statistically F-ed when getting the virus.

EDIT:

Looked up Obese percentages for elderly people before somebody makes the valid point that elderly are hit harder already and might have a higher obese rate.

15.3% of males of 65 and older are obese, for woman this is 19%

Last edited by EdwinNL; 12.04.2020 at 15:22.
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Old 12.04.2020, 16:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm not completely sure, but I think that in Switzerland - even in non-Corona times - autopsies are not usual, nor legally required.
Correct. I wouldn't call them "not usual" but they're definitely not mandatory.

My brother died four years ago at home in his sleep, with his wife/widow sleeping next to him. I don't remember the details clearly, simply because I couldn't care less about them at that time. But the official conclusion was that he either died of a heart stroke or a .... haemorrhage in the brain ... whatever the term is. The family, including siblings and parents, was given the opportunity to say goodbye to him looking like at sleep (and snoring loudly with mouth open ) in the marital bed. IIRC it had been arranged that the undertaker would arrive later in the afternoon to collect the body.

Well, the important part here WRT doropfiz's post is the fact that the widow was asked if she wanted an autopsy, since his death may have been caused by either of two possible causes. I assume that if any family member had requested one they could have. But nobody did so none was perfomed.

If someone wanted to play devil's advocate he could argue that the widow could have murdered him making it look like a natural cause, and was given an easy way out by refusing to have an autopsy performed. Theoretically speaking only, there's no doubt that his death was a natural one.
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Old 12.04.2020, 16:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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They are also discussion about an official, voluntary, tracking app which would allow contact tracking. As discussed and mentioned by Gesundheitsminister Spahn at the press conference April 9th.
https://youtu.be/McWs1awhsHY?t=3917
One problem, and the major efforts in this direction have failed so far, is making such an app work on iOS and Android.

Apple and Google have announced day before yesterday that they'll build such an app, and that they intend to incorporate these functionalities into their OS. The app is predicted to be available mid-May.

Also see here.
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Sometimes its understandable that we have a pandemic when certain people have such a lack of respect to the environment

Leftovers from yesterday Werd Insel!!
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:14
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Re: Coronavirus

Please do not relax just because you are not in one of the high risk groups.
Anyone can be an infectious carrier and not be aware of it.
Large numbers of people outside the high risk groups are dying or suffering a bad (as in really bad) infection.
The statistics simply mean that the risk is lower - it is still significant and well above the risk due to normal flu. Viral dose does seem to be important, so reducing exposure is a must.
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please do not relax just because you are not in one of the high risk groups.
Anyone can be an infectious carrier and not be aware of it.
Large numbers of people outside the high risk groups are dying or suffering a bad (as in really bad) infection.
The statistics simply mean that the risk is lower - it is still significant and well above the risk due to normal flu. Viral dose does seem to be important, so reducing exposure is a must.
Eventually one has to go back to normal living. And if you get the virus you get it. Nothing to do about it.
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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@22 Yards

According to WHO, Worldwide, seasonal flu epidemics are estimated to result in about 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths annually.

Source

If we take the worst case 650 000 that is around 1,800 per day.
Daily COV-19 deaths from Worldometer currently are over 6,000 per day, between 350% and 700% more than flu deaths.
So this is a mean of 5 times the number of seasonal flu deaths.
Sure. I simply compared COVID-19 deaths on one day in the US to the average number of deaths due to seasonal flu last year (latest figures available). Of course, the ratio can be very much worse, as you pointed out.
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sure. I simply compared COVID-19 deaths on one day in the US to the average number of deaths due to seasonal flu last year (latest figures available). Of course, the ratio can be very much worse, as you pointed out.
And your erect dick-pic profile (or whatever that is) gives you about as much credibility as Trump (who at least admitted he shat on the WHO figures) - the only factually proven thought that has emerged from his self-proclaimed “incredible” brain until now
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

Seems wierd that the line up in their cars in USA to get a food handout.If they can afford a car and gas and insurance but they line up for up to 12 hours to get free food.

What is wrong in this country?
https://www.expressiveinfo.com/coron...-texas-photos/
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sure. I simply compared COVID-19 deaths on one day in the US to the average number of deaths due to seasonal flu last year (latest figures available). Of course, the ratio can be very much worse, as you pointed out.
Weekly published COVID-19 deaths compared to other past and ongoing disasters :
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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The oldies in my block are coming and going and coming multiple times in the day - I've never seen them this active!
Must be some unusual circumstance driving them out?

I assume you are not usually at home all day to see them?
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Old 12.04.2020, 17:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Must be some unusual circumstance driving them out?

I assume you are not usually at home all day to see them?
Wow. Now they are spying on the neighbours! I thought only the oldies did this
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