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  #8281  
Old 26.04.2020, 08:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Pleeeease give me a break. What on earth do you have to hide? This app can save lives. It's hilarious if you think you aren't already "monitorised".
Yes. Let's reduce the whole of life to an app! Lets put a few more diseases on the app like VD etc etc etc etc
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  #8282  
Old 26.04.2020, 08:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes. Let's reduce the whole of life to an app! Lets put a few more diseases on the app like VD etc etc etc etc
Maybe we should.
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  #8283  
Old 26.04.2020, 08:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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so according to the death figures in the news recently the world just passed 200000 deaths related to Covid19 and in the UK there have been 20000...

What?! The UK has 10 per cent of the world deaths?
10 per cent of the deaths published as covid-19 by the official sources in each country, we will never know the right figures.
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  #8284  
Old 26.04.2020, 08:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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10 per cent of the deaths published as covid-19 by the official sources in each country, we will never know the right figures.
All the figures are either lies or downright not correct ( exaggerated numbers )

They were manipulated to justify a lockdown and now they manipulate them to justify opening up.

Last edited by omtatsat; 26.04.2020 at 08:51.
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  #8285  
Old 26.04.2020, 08:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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10 per cent of the deaths published as covid-19 by the official sources in each country, we will never know the right figures.
And the "right figures" will never converge. Cause of death is subjective. If a person has CV-19 and dies of a stroke is the cause CV-19 or is it stroke? CV-19 is certainly a contributing cause, but is that applied consistently? And without autopsy, it's even more difficult.

An example I'm more familiar with is metastatic or secondary cancer. A person dies of liver failure, kidney failure, but wouldn't be in that situation if not for the cancer. So by calling it liver failure, you're undercounting the impact of cancer.

If a person dies of organ failure brought on by CV-19 is the cause of death COVID-19 or organ failure. I'd argue it's the virus.
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  #8286  
Old 26.04.2020, 08:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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All the figures are either lies or downright not correct ( exaggerated numbers )
Quite the reverse. UK at least it is clearly acknowledged the figures are undercounted.
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Old 26.04.2020, 08:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Quite the reverse. UK at least it is clearly acknowledged the figures are undercounted.
Maybe yes -the number of infections but the number of deaths ( specifically from the Virus ) not.
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Old 26.04.2020, 08:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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And the "right figures" will never converge. Cause of death is subjective. If a person has CV-19 and dies of a stroke is the cause CV-19 or is it stroke? CV-19 is certainly a contributing cause, but is that applied consistently? And without autopsy, it's even more difficult.
Actually with strokes given the more recent findings on blood clotting (see a few posts up) more likely Corvid as cause.

What will happen - much later - is what they do for flu epidemics. You look statistically at the actual deaths compared to expected, bring in any other factors you can imagine and what is left gives you a range of deaths you can attribute to the outbreak.
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Old 26.04.2020, 08:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe yes -the number of infections but the number of deaths ( specifically from the Virus ) not.
No. Deaths are clearly undercounted in the UK (and others). The UK only counts tested cases dying in hospitals. Tested but die elsewhere - doesn't count. Not tested but clear CV symptoms - doesn't count. True UK death toll is nearer 30,000 than 20,000.
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Old 26.04.2020, 09:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Actually with strokes given the more recent findings on blood clotting (see a few posts up) more likely Corvid as cause.

What will happen - much later - is what they do for flu epidemics. You look statistically at the actual deaths compared to expected, bring in any other factors you can imagine and what is left gives you a range of deaths you can attribute to the outbreak.
I agree with you, and I know this is how they do it, but it's not a cut and dried process as the chronic disease data suggest.
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Old 26.04.2020, 09:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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No. Deaths are clearly undercounted in the UK (and others). The UK only counts tested cases dying in hospitals. Tested but die elsewhere - doesn't count. Not tested but clear CV symptoms - doesn't count. True UK death toll is nearer 30,000 than 20,000.
Face it! Statistics is the third biggest type of lie.
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  #8292  
Old 26.04.2020, 09:05
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Re: Coronavirus

Rather than accusing the UK for undercounting, my claim was in the direction that the figures for many countries who surely lack testing capacity are totally meaningless. If you use worldometers, check South America and compare Venezuela to the rest. Look also at the number of tests; either someone put a couple extra ceros by mistake (it is not a round number), or mixed with coma and point as decimal separator (you rarely do fractions of tests), or the official sources do not have the word shame in their dictionary (my bet). Edit: ok, they could indeed be less affected by having borders virtually closed for political reasons, but I still don't believe the number of tests.

I also thought several times what could happen in India if there is a minimally serious outbreak.

Last edited by youcannotbeserious; 26.04.2020 at 09:16.
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  #8293  
Old 26.04.2020, 09:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Face it! Statistics is the third biggest type of lie.
Yes. Statistics are used to manipulate. Thats everywhere. Its a crime that that they should do it in this Corona thing
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  #8294  
Old 26.04.2020, 10:55
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Re: Coronavirus

Two weeks quarantine for all travellers entering the UK - other countries likely to follow suit

These are just one of the plans to be announced in the Second Phase of the Coranavirus legistlation this
week according to the Telegraph with this applying to all people entering the UK, whether British or
foreign visitors.
These measures are likely to be viewed as one of the necessary items to remain in place when
the UK moves out of lockdown as well.

The Telegraph - Two weeks quarantine for all travellers to the UK

Other countries are also likely to follow suit with Australia announcing it already.

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Australian citizens and residents returning from overseas will be forced to quarantine in hotels in
a bid to stop the spread of Covid-19 from returning passengers in breach of existing self-isolation
requirements.

On Friday, Scott Morrison announced that national cabinet had agreed on the strict new measures
to apply from midnight on Saturday, with the Australian Defence Force also set to help state
law enforcement increase checks on passengers who arrived before the deadline, who are
supposed to self-isolate for 14 days.

The Guardian - Overseas arrivals to Australia to be Quarantined for 2 weeks as a Coronavirus precaution
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Surely the time has come for Boris to 'circle the wagons' for a bit of herd immunity ?
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  #8295  
Old 26.04.2020, 11:21
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Re: Coronavirus

Czech primary schools will be opening May 26: 15 kids maximum per class and schooling will not be obligatory.

The rest of the schools teaching kids up to 15yr of age in the country will continue teach remotely till the end of the school year.
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  #8296  
Old 26.04.2020, 11:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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And the "right figures" will never converge. Cause of death is subjective. If a person has CV-19 and dies of a stroke is the cause CV-19 or is it stroke? CV-19 is certainly a contributing cause, but is that applied consistently? And without autopsy, it's even more difficult.

An example I'm more familiar with is metastatic or secondary cancer. A person dies of liver failure, kidney failure, but wouldn't be in that situation if not for the cancer. So by calling it liver failure, you're undercounting the impact of cancer.

If a person dies of organ failure brought on by CV-19 is the cause of death COVID-19 or organ failure. I'd argue it's the virus.
I agree, but I think at this point is more important to know more about the virus and its effects and how to treat the symptoms. It appears it affects not only the lungs but also the blood system and who knows what else. Maybe a lot of these deaths could have been prevented had we known more earlier.

I think we need more tests and to know better the number of people who are infected. Mortality rates and their accuracy will make the subject of ample studies after all this mess is over. Hopefully.
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Old 26.04.2020, 11:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know you meant when done by doctors, but we're living in the internet era and we I can only hope that some people won't conclude they have had the virus a month or two ago because they had some of the symptoms and go on with their lives as before.
In this case it was done by doctors, and yeah off course diagnosing should be done by people qualified to do so.
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Old 26.04.2020, 12:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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President Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Kim Jong-un
Seems you can possibly scratch out that last one.
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Old 26.04.2020, 13:23
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Seems you can possibly scratch out that last one.
Which is worrying in itself as who's to hold the other two in check when he's gone ??
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Old 26.04.2020, 13:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Which is worrying in itself as who's to hold the other two in check when he's gone ??
Putin, of course.
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