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  #9301  
Old 12.05.2020, 09:46
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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I must have missed something... the bit where Trump suddenly increased capacity to such an extent that it no longer matters if the infection rate doubles or more in the coming weeks....

All we have done so far is bought a little time and learned a little about the virus. The lockdown was never held out as a phase before we get back to normal so the bar has not changed.

The next step is getting essential services going, built capacity to deal with the next wave, try to find a vaccine or treatment and try to survive in the meantime.

As for the next generation, killing 20% - 30% of them simply to save the economy is not much of an achievement, especially at this very early stage when we don’t need to do so.

Even when we do come out of this, I doubt very much the we will ever go back to the old normal and the economics will change dramatically as well.
I seem to be missing something here. In the US, it is not up to Trump to reopen a state (at this point anyway). That decision rests with the Governor. In Pennsylvania, roughly 70 -80% of the deaths have been linked to nursing homes and long term care facilities. And yet the Governor there is still enforcing a very hard lockdown on many counties in the state.

I never implied killing 20-30% of the population just to benefit the economy. My point is that those most susceptible should be quarantined and those healthy should be allowed to return to work and resume their businesses.
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  #9302  
Old 12.05.2020, 09:47
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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I might be stoned to death here for this, but IMHO the next generation is already now overburdened by a huge burden left by the current generation's lifestyle. It is the next generation who will have to deal with the effects of climate change.

Yet, the current generations take away the lifeline of the next generation. Unfortunately it is the current (and especially the old) generation who votes, so the politicians are biased to pleasing them.
Ironically there is maybe a chance that the current crisis will dampen travel (of all sorts) for the foreseeable and therefore help just a little with the climate. Not just leisure travel, I can certainly see business travel being heavily impacted and also seems possible that home office will happen to a much greater extent in future reducing commuting.

Anyone working in the travel/tourism sector is likely to have a tough 12 months at least.

Irony 2 is that the old disproportionately vote for the parties wanting economic opening - SVP in Switzerland, for example.
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Old 12.05.2020, 09:47
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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I might be stoned to death here for this, but IMHO the next generation is already now overburdened by a huge burden left by the current generation's lifestyle. It is the next generation who will have to deal with the effects of climate change.

Yet, the current generations take away the lifeline of the next generation. Unfortunately it is the current (and especially the old) generation who votes, so the politicians are biased to pleasing them.

90% / 100% inheritance tax for a few years to compensate would be a start.
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  #9304  
Old 12.05.2020, 09:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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The woman was protesting against social distancing laws -- deliberately breaking the law. She brought her child along for the lolz, I guess.

As we all know, omtatsat just has to complain about every situation -- Switzerland sucks, Australia sucks, whichever place he turns his bored mind to next sucks...
I know, he's like that old, grumpy racist uncle next to whom we all had the misfortune to sit at the table at some family reunion, and we had to politely listen to all their nonsense while we desperately wished we had a gun so we could kill ourselves.

Thank you for the summary, 22yards. I was intrigued by doropfiz's comment actually.

That's not ideology in the name she was protesting, that's stupidity. Frankly I can't find any other name for that.

Poor, poor boy.
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  #9305  
Old 12.05.2020, 09:56
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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Ironically there is maybe a chance that the current crisis will dampen travel (of all sorts) for the foreseeable and therefore help just a little with the climate. Not just leisure travel, I can certainly see business travel being heavily impacted and also seems possible that home office will happen to a much greater extent in future reducing commuting.
So the next generation again pays for our sins? Putting it simply, we lock down the entire world and take away the prospects (incl. that of leisure travel) from the future generations to protect the old generation who amongst others caused the climate change (by. e.g. leisure travel).

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Anyone working in the travel/tourism sector is likely to have a tough 12 months at least.

Irony 2 is that the old disproportionately vote for the parties wanting economic opening - SVP in Switzerland, for example.
It is indeed ironic: Sadly the left wing sometimes does go overboard and gets into the territory of trying to be overly fair (protect the elderly at any cost) and not seeing the unfairness to in it long term. I see this in other things as well that left wing is often too superficial and correct on the surface.

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90% / 100% inheritance tax for a few years to compensate would be a start.
I am not sure that would solve everything: climate change. The problem is it would affect the average wealthy Joe, but the superrich will find loopholes
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  #9306  
Old 12.05.2020, 09:59
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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So the next generation again pays for our sins? Putting it simply, we lock down the entire world and take away the prospects (incl. that of leisure travel) from the future generations to protect the old generation who amongst others caused the climate change (by. e.g. leisure travel).
Actually to protect the younger generation. Us old gits won't suffer too badly.

Agreed the rest is somehow unfair. But largely unavoidable. Some impact can be mitigated with the right technologies but a CHF 9.99 fare to fly to Dublin is quite simply ridiculous.
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  #9307  
Old 12.05.2020, 10:08
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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Anyone working in the travel/tourism sector is likely to have a tough 12 months at least.
I come from a business travel background and so far, only know 3 people who've been made redundant, two in Perth, WA and one in the UK. The Perth friends were very senior within their companies and the UK one was employed in the financial admin side of the business, making sure cancelled tickets were refunded correctly, so I was surprised at her redundancy. One of the Perth friends has already got a new job as a driving test examiner because she doesn't expect travel to get back on it's feet for a couple of years at least.
Everyone else in travel (well over 50 of my friends) were furloughed, but many are not hopeful of still having the same job in 6-12mths time.
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Old 12.05.2020, 10:16
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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It is indeed ironic: Sadly the left wing sometimes does go overboard and gets into the territory of trying to be overly fair (protect the elderly at any cost) and not seeing the unfairness to in it long term. I see this in other things as well that left wing is often too superficial and correct on the surface.
There is not left and right wing in these circumstances.
NZ and Sweden both have left wing governments but have taken completely opposing positions in this matter. Same with Greece and the UK who both have right wing governments but have taken totally different attitudes to dealing with this event.
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  #9309  
Old 12.05.2020, 10:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Poor, poor boy.
I wouldn't feel too sorry for omtatsat. He'll cope.
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  #9310  
Old 12.05.2020, 10:17
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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I am not sure that would solve everything: climate change. The problem is it would affect the average wealthy Joe, but the superrich will find loopholes
Well it's only a measure to help pay the debt that has been inflicted on the nations, not solve all ills.

Loopholes can be closed, retrospectively, IF the will is there.



Taxes are going up, and if you're dead, you don't need the money.
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Old 12.05.2020, 10:23
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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Actually to protect the younger generation. Us old gits won't suffer too badly.

Agreed the rest is somehow unfair. But largely unavoidable. Some impact can be mitigated with the right technologies but a CHF 9.99 fare to fly to Dublin is quite simply ridiculous.
Seriously? 9.99 CHF? You're not being ironic or....? Sarcasm detector might be broken...(in my defence I don't know the prices to Dublin)
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  #9312  
Old 12.05.2020, 10:37
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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Seriously? 9.99 CHF? You're not being ironic or....?
He's serious. Ryanair used to do a £1 fare from Manchester to Dublin and I've considered the CHF9.99 fare to Dublin in the past, but couldn't get good onward connections to Manchester.
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Old 12.05.2020, 11:30
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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Seriously? 9.99 CHF?
What a rip off.

I flew to Stockholm from the U.K. once for 4 pounds.
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  #9314  
Old 12.05.2020, 11:30
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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He's serious. Ryanair used to do a £1 fare from Manchester to Dublin and I've considered the CHF9.99 fare to Dublin in the past, but couldn't get good onward connections to Manchester.
Plus taxes and charges, and a fee for using a credit card. That's one of the reasons the new rules came in on transperency of the full cost of flights when booking.
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Old 12.05.2020, 11:31
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Re: Coronavirus

Eye opening

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  #9316  
Old 12.05.2020, 12:38
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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Plus taxes and charges, and a fee for using a credit card. That's one of the reasons the new rules came in on transperency of the full cost of flights when booking.
I had a £1 flight once in the mid-1990s, on Ryanair from London to Dublin, I think it was. £1 all up. No extra fees or costs at all. Obviously it was a promotional fare, but it didn't work on me; that was the one and only time I've ever flown Ryanair.
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Old 12.05.2020, 12:41
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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I had a £1 flight once in the mid-1990s, on Ryanair from London to Dublin, I think it was. £1 all up. No extra fees or costs at all. Obviously it was a promotional fare, but it didn't work on me; that was the one and only time I've ever flown Ryanair.
I've heard that these happened every once in a while where they waived the extra bits. I always remember 10 turning into 20. Then again the bus to the airport cost as much as the flight so I wasn't complaining.
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  #9318  
Old 12.05.2020, 12:56
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Why is it ridiculously low? It's just another scientist putting forward their theory, this is how science works! Perhaps it is correct, perhaps not.
No that is how theories about science work. Actual science... works.

10-20% cannot be herd immunity. The numbers are not high enough.

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Opening schools has not rekindled epidemic in Norway, say authorities

Yet I believe some EFers still think reopening of schools is impossible
Reopening schools as they were is impossible. See McTs thread.

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I know people that have been forced to take holiday, that on reduced wages due to furlough, business owners struggling to get by on a fraction of their normal income and people that have lost their jobs. All this for a virus that has minimal effect on healthy people of working age (under 65s).

Success is still being measured in terms of numbers dead, with little thought given to economic consequences and harm/lives lost as a result of the prolonged lockdown. It's becoming ever more clear that if the virus is kept out of care homes and the healthcare system then it has a vastly reduced impact (as appears to have been the case in Germany).

Historians will look back at this pandemic as a time of collective madness and self harm. A lockdown of vulnerable and elderly would have been sufficient and everyone else could have carried on working with social distancing measures in place.
32k plus people dead to Covid 19 in the UK. Is that minimal in your eyes?

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.05.2020 at 13:03. Reason: merging consecutive posts
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  #9319  
Old 12.05.2020, 13:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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PS. learning German here: is Paradiesvögel really used to describe colorful individuals on the street?
Yes, though not just on the street, anywhere.

I see it as a half-compliment, as Paradiesvögel need far-above-average competence to get their eccentricities accepted. In my mind they tend to be active in the creative domains, e.g. artist-y types, designers or the likes. In the movies, Captain Jack Sparrow (Pirates of the Caribbean) and Dr. Emmett Brown (the scientist/inventor in Back to the Future) are Paradiesvögel.

Perhaps check out the namesake family of birds Paradisaeidae / Paradiesvögel, they're so beautiful (esp. the males) they can't but stand out.
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Old 12.05.2020, 13:21
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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I know people that have been forced to take holiday, that on reduced wages due to furlough, business owners struggling to get by on a fraction of their normal income and people that have lost their jobs. All this for a virus that has minimal effect on healthy people of working age (under 65s).

Success is still being measured in terms of numbers dead, with little thought given to economic consequences and harm/lives lost as a result of the prolonged lockdown. It's becoming ever more clear that if the virus is kept out of care homes and the healthcare system then it has a vastly reduced impact (as appears to have been the case in Germany).

Historians will look back at this pandemic as a time of collective madness and self harm. A lockdown of vulnerable and elderly would have been sufficient and everyone else could have carried on working with social distancing measures in place.
Amongst other positive things Corona Virus is a wakeup call for all.
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