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Old 12.05.2020, 19:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not everyone who is overweight is a glutton.
But most are

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Obesity is generally caused by eating too much and moving too little.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/obesity/causes/
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  #9362  
Old 12.05.2020, 19:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sure, many young, "healthy" people have to work - including those who work in care homes or take care of elderly/sick relatives in their own home. That's how the virus got there in the first place. Aunt Mildred didn't catch Covid-19 by wandering the garden of the care home with her walker. A young, seemingly healthy relative or employee of the facility brought the virus in.

Governors, regardless of political party, are caught in a tough spot. A Wild West free-for-all reopening could be disastrous for more populated areas in terms of deaths and again overwhelming the healthcare system. A careful, phased in reopening is best for them. Then there are sparsely populated areas like South Dakota or Wyoming, which didn't need much of a lockdown in the first place."

Correct about how the virus got into the elderly care facilities so why not lock them down (which many states have done including PA (albeit - a little late!) and begin a program of widespread and frequent testing at these care facilities? Until a vaccine is found, and let's be honest here, in a best case scenario we are looking at another 12- 18 months, the elderly in these facilities are the MOST at risk.

Regarding Governors, I have watched PA closely since we have a home there. I have two nieces who work in hospitals in Philadelphia which has been the hardest hit county in the state to date. Hospitals were/are not overwhelmed there and frankly, most cases stem from nursing homes - which if locked down, would solve the issue of overwhelming the health care system. To my knowledge, NYC was the only densely populated city which initially faced issues regarding hospital capacity and the hospitals in NYC were not overwhelmed. Note that NYC, was very late to lock down.

That despite the fact that Governor Andrew Cuomo mandated that nursing homes and elderly care facilities had to admit any Corona patient if their vital signs were "stable" That sure didn't help the pervasive spread in care facilities in that state.

https://www.newsday.com/news/health/...omo-1.44559094

To be fair to Cuomo, at least he admitted his mistake and on Sunday released new guidelines for care facilities. Now all Corona patients must test negative for Corona before readmission is possible.

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.05.2020 at 19:39. Reason: fixed quote
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  #9363  
Old 12.05.2020, 19:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sadly, there's at least one: Belarus. See this report. Well OK, they haven't let the virus just run rampant, but precious little is being done at a national level to protect citizens there.
And we can't really trust the resulting numbers anyway, it's a dictatorship.
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Old 12.05.2020, 20:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not everyone who is overweight is a glutton.
Some of them (/us) aren't greedy but rather lazy. I'm both.
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  #9365  
Old 12.05.2020, 20:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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The hospitals haven't been overloaded, the peak is long past so it's time to end the lockdown. Any prolongation of the lockdown now is pure politics, which leads me onto my next point...



The Swiss get this, which is why they've brought forward the easing of the lockdown. The UK govt screwed up, and now they're playing politics by keeping people in lockdown longer than is necessary. (I'll ignore the personal insult)



That's exactly NOT what I assume. My point is that people with underlying health conditions are far more likely to be affected by this virus than healthy people. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to protect these and other vulnerable people whilst also ensuring that hospital appointments go ahead, the economy is kept going etc.



Under normal circumstances I would agree, but when people's businesses go under for reasons entirely out of their control then it is normal to expect bitterness.
It's always been pure politics from Johnson et al which is a huge contributing factor to the situation the UK is now in. Their plan A was a non-starter from an optics POV so they moved to an ill-thought-out plan B and now we're onto vague plans M N and O.

Regarding underlying health conditions - asthma is one. Most asthmatics can manage perfectly well under normal circumstances - should their lives/livelihoods be curtailed indefinitely under your proposed plan of segregation by condition?

What personal insult? I was weighing up evidence and making a conclusion.


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You've touched upon a point there, "underlying health condition" for the most part means "severely overweight". Perhaps if people spent the lockdown losing weight rather than sitting on their sofa we'd see a lower fatality rate. Again, personal responsibility.
This is an outrageously vile statement. If you cannot see this then you perhaps should do some introspective evaluation of your own personal responsibility. If you can see this then.... troll. Big troll.

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Not everyone who is overweight is a glutton.
This. I became overweight after having my second child, becoming severely ill and being physically unable to move around for several months.

Are you an MD? Someone with a background in nutrition/exercise? You can only offer your inexpert opinion.
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  #9366  
Old 12.05.2020, 20:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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... Swiss saved too much cash last two months, where will people now invest to support the economy? Books? Services? Schools? Agencies? Chocolates? watches? More insurance policies?
A Swiss family just booked my vacation apartment in the mountains for a week in July (a first booking since March), so I expect plenty of Swiss will be spending their dough in the home country...
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  #9367  
Old 12.05.2020, 20:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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A Swiss family just booked my vacation apartment in the mountains for a week in July (a first booking since March), so I expect plenty of Swiss will be spending their dough in the home country...
That sounds lovely. Do you have a tree house? Big?

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.05.2020 at 23:26. Reason: fixed quote
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  #9368  
Old 12.05.2020, 20:30
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Re: Coronavirus

I'm sure smokers everywhere will be delighted by the news that they are no longer in a most at
risk group from future health problems as a result of their smoking habits.
So long as they're not obese of course.

Last edited by John William; 12.05.2020 at 20:41.
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Old 12.05.2020, 20:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Some of them (/us) aren't greedy but rather lazy. I'm both.
Aren't you big boned? 6'2"? That's hard to picture skinny. I may have confused you with somebody else...

Greed and lazy unrelated - the word on the news this evening was that vultures, wolves and foxes came back. It got clean and quiet in the nature.

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.05.2020 at 20:58.
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Old 12.05.2020, 20:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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Aren't you big boned? 6'2"? That's hard to picture skinny. I may have confused you with somebody else...

Greed and lazy unrelated - the word on the news this evening was that vultures, woolves and foxes came back. It got clean and quiet in the nature.
Sadly being 6'2 doesn't stop you being a tubbster. I'm not too bad now though (BMI is pretty close to 25). In general ive got shockingly poor long term control over my weight. In my adulthood ive been as low as 69 kg and as much as 115kg.
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Old 12.05.2020, 20:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Alas, nobody has been recovered long enough for you to make such a statement.

Tom
If someone loses an arm in an accident, I think you could safely say after one week that they wouldn't be using that arm again.
You could say the same thing after ten years.

Permanent lung damage is... permanent lung damage. It doesn't become un-permanent over time.
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  #9372  
Old 12.05.2020, 20:58
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Re: Coronavirus

I went to my ActivFitness gym today in Zurich for the first time in 9 weeks. I have to say how impressed I was with the revised gym layout: all equipment pared down and at least 2 meters or more between each piece. There were two employees in different areas wiping down each piece of equipment after anyone used it. Note that very few were in the gym and most were fit and under the age of 60. In short, IMHO, it was much safer than shopping at Coop or Migros.

Last edited by terrifisch; 12.05.2020 at 21:09.
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  #9373  
Old 12.05.2020, 21:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sadly being 6'2 doesn't stop you being a tubbster. I'm not too bad now though (BMI is pretty close to 25). In general ive got shockingly poor long term control over my weight. In my adulthood ive been as low as 69 kg and as much as 115kg.
Wow, thst's almost 1/2 your weight..Hormones? Stress? A bear then.

I was gonna say, after the wolves, foxes and vultures I am expecting polar bears, so cold!!!
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  #9374  
Old 12.05.2020, 21:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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If someone loses an arm in an accident, I think you could safely say after one week that they wouldn't be using that arm again.
You could say the same thing after ten years.

Permanent lung damage is... permanent lung damage. It doesn't become un-permanent over time.
Peter Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine who has himself recovered from COVID-19 wrote: "Many people will be left with chronic kidney and heart problems."
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Old 12.05.2020, 21:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Peter Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine who has himself recovered from COVID-19 wrote: "Many people will be left with chronic kidney and heart problems."
While I'm sure he's correct I'm amazed how many of the UK team advising us how to and the importance of avoiding coronavirus have themselves caught it and/or not socially distancing properly.
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Old 12.05.2020, 21:32
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Re: Coronavirus

I read more than a few comments on long term consequences or chronic problems from the virus.

Well, chronic problems suck but I think even the healthiest and youngest of us has at least a debilitating problem. We thrive in spite of these problems, not because they don't exist.

It would be better to live through these times without a chronic problem as souvenir, but if it comes...it's not the end. It's just one or two more to the list.
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Old 12.05.2020, 21:34
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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Statistically speaking (in the US at least) those who reside in retirement facilities and nursing homes appear to be at the most risk. And those who have underlying health conditions: obesity, diabetes, hypertension etc... are also at great risk.

As far as Johnson is concerned, his weight was deemed a contributing factor to his complicated recovery from Covid according to what I have read. I am actually surprised that Trump has tested negative given his lousy diet and weight issues.
When you say about Johnson is his weight was deemed a contributing factor then you have enormously expanded the "at-risk" group who should stay at home; about 40% of American adults are obese.

When you talk about "at the most risk" then we need to define what risk we are talking about.
I assume you mean the risk of death? But before that risk comes into play there is the risk of hospitalisation. Due to lockdowns, hospitals have not been overwhelmed.

In his testimony before the US Senate today, Fauci and his public health colleagues (including CDC director Dr. Robert Redfield) warned opening prematurely creates "a real risk you will trigger an outbreak you will not be able to control."

As I posted earlier many people of all age groups older than teens have been hospitalised but if the hospitals become overloaded then deaths will no longer be limited to the old and sick.
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Old 12.05.2020, 21:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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I went to my ActivFitness gym today in Zurich for the first time in 9 weeks. I have to say how impressed I was with the revised gym layout: all equipment pared down and at least 2 meters or more between each piece. There were two employees in different areas wiping down each piece of equipment after anyone used it. Note that very few were in the gym and most were fit and under the age of 60. In short, IMHO, it was much safer than shopping at Coop or Migros.
Are you getting confused with the age and general health of people getting the disease and passing it on with the age and general health of people dying from it?

Being under sixty does not lower your chance of getting COVID-19 and passing it on to others - it lowers your chance of dying from it.

IMHO, if I wanted to minimise my chance of getting it, I'd avoid going to a gym before avoiding shopping for food.

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Old 12.05.2020, 21:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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But if you are of the age where you can be unemployed, you're unlikely to die of Covid-19, it's an old/ill persons disease.
But anyway, will be years before the stats are in to make any conclusion.
No, it is not an old/ill person disease.

People of all ages catch it and some get so seriously ill that they require hospital treatment. Young and fit people respond better to hospital treatment and have a better chance of surviving although with lingering effects; sometimes lifelong effects.
I just have to show this graph again from the US CDC so demonstrating it is not an old/ill person disease.
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Old 12.05.2020, 21:56
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Re: Do you know anyone who has lost their job because of Corona?

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As far as Johnson is concerned, his weight was deemed a contributing factor to his complicated recovery from Covid according to what I have read. I am actually surprised that Trump has tested negative given his lousy diet and weight issues.
Risk factors impact course of illness, complications and recovery. As far as I’ve seen - and I could be wrong - risk factors do not impact susceptibility to infection. Trump is described as a germaphobe, which probably works in his favor.
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