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  #9601  
Old 17.05.2020, 06:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Exactly, that's it!
I *knew* you'd agree!

Now, if only we could get the important Asian countries to adapt and follow suit, China, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Japan, the world would gain precious time to learn more about this virus and how to fight it.

You can see it already in the slowing spread around here, the Swiss way works very well.
Frankly I don't know what we disagreed on (if we actually did disagree and it's not your own interpretation and projection) so we can agree now. I don't even care about that.
Haven't suggested anything else all along, so if you feel like you need to run in circles with me or "lead" me to whatever conclusion I already formed for my own long ago and not because or due to EF, please take note that I'm out of your game.

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My OH and I took a long walk with our lab through Zurich (Niederdorf) and and through the Bahnhofstrasse. Let's just say there were so many out walking in groups and without masks - we couldn't believe it!

There also seemed to be some kind of protest outside of the Opera house, Sechselautenplatz. The place was beyond packed (no social distancing of any sort). It looked to be a protest to us but not sure.

One thing will be interesting... if the number of cases of Corona in Zurich remains flat in two weeks after what we witnessed today, that can only mean many more carry the virus and have not been tested. The crowds in central Zurich reminded me of mid July or August and very few wore masks.
This. These relaxation measures seem like a green light to going back to "old normal" for some people out there. They appear to not understand that for a good while we still have to remain prudent and follow the official recommendations.

There is a risk that this epidemic comes back with a vengeance way too quickly after so much discipline and then we'll have to go back to even stricter measures. Did you hear about the new term "covidiots"? :Rofl:

As for what can we learn from here - I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion though. If the number of new infections in ZH remains flat it can also be due to other reasons not necessarily due to people carrying the virus asymptomatically (that could also be, of course).
It could be due to the fact that the rate of transmission is different when outdoors and when the weather is very warm. Or simply because nobody who was carrying the virus (again, if there were asymptomatic carriers) went too close to someone else or for the time needed to spread the virus while outdoors and while the weather is very warm.

It would be good if the police can take their contacts and we can track down everyone who was there and can test them, exactly those individuals and their contacts. I can see facial recognition programmes being in great demand now. And the same people complaining about the police state....

As a tax payer I think covidiots should pay higher taxes because the police needs higher salaries for working under risk and stress and they'll need new software applications too. Why on everyone's money.

Last edited by greenmount; 17.05.2020 at 07:29.
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  #9602  
Old 17.05.2020, 07:30
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Re: Coronavirus

Whats wrong with these Corona Rebels in Zürich. Why dont they come armed with AK47 etc like they do in USA!Do they think they are on a picknick?

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  #9603  
Old 17.05.2020, 07:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Whats wrong with these Corona Rebels in Zürich. Why dont they come armed with AK47 etc like they do in USA!
Rebells under a mask? How convenient.

It looks like they respect some of the rules, I don't know why are they protesting anymore.
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  #9604  
Old 17.05.2020, 07:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Attachment 139437

We need to get Scotty working on a vaccine Captain, engage Operation Warp Speed.

BBC News - Trump unveils Operation Warp Speed in the hunt for a Vaccine
"Beam me up, Scotty."
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  #9605  
Old 17.05.2020, 08:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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One thing will be interesting... if the number of cases of Corona in Zurich remains flat in two weeks after what we witnessed today, that can only mean many more carry the virus and have not been tested. The crowds in central Zurich reminded me of mid July or August and very few wore masks.
Eh? I guess you either mean either many more carry antibodies (not the same as carrying the virus) or very few carry the virus.

If many are carrying the virus there will be many more infections. Unless we are near herd immunity. Which we 100% are not.
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  #9606  
Old 17.05.2020, 08:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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My OH and I took a long walk with our lab through Zurich (Niederdorf) and and through the Bahnhofstrasse. Let's just say there were so many out walking in groups and without masks - we couldn't believe it!

There also seemed to be some kind of protest outside of the Opera house, Sechselautenplatz. The place was beyond packed (no social distancing of any sort). It looked to be a protest to us but not sure.

One thing will be interesting... if the number of cases of Corona in Zurich remains flat in two weeks after what we witnessed today, that can only mean many more carry the virus and have not been tested. The crowds in central Zurich reminded me of mid July or August and very few wore masks.
Its only one day of the week like that( Saturday ). No paranoia please!
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  #9607  
Old 17.05.2020, 08:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Eh? I guess you either mean either many more carry antibodies (not the same as carrying the virus) or very few carry the virus.

If many are carrying the virus there will be many more infections. Unless we are near herd immunity. Which we 100% are not.
Canton ZH has reported 93 cases since the 1st of May, (60 cases 1-8, 33 cases 8-16). That is 1 per 16300 inhabitants. 93 cases that should be in isolation. Add a factor 1/2 to account for the delay in notifications and a factor 2 to account for asymptomatic carriers (sounds quite pessimistic) and you can still take it as an estimate of the number of people carrying the virus
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  #9608  
Old 17.05.2020, 10:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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One thing will be interesting... if the number of cases of Corona in Zurich remains flat in two weeks after what we witnessed today, that can only mean many more carry the virus and have not been tested. The crowds in central Zurich reminded me of mid July or August and very few wore masks.
A single event may be a statistical outlier (i.e. no-one attending had the virus). When it all began we still had concerts, movies, opera etc., many times per day, each of them collecting as many people as that protest.

What I mean is to get the same spike as we have had, we need to practice regular unprotected social group acts () of that magnitude daily, many times and everywhere.

Nevertheless, I would be very cautious to believe that we are now safe, as Austria cases have been on a slow rise in the course of this week (they had stage-2 reopening two weeks ago). Also, overall in Switzerland it seems flat or on a slow rise, meaning R is already 1 and further reopening may bring us a new wave (possibly with slower rise and more controllable).
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  #9609  
Old 17.05.2020, 10:23
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Re: Coronavirus

So much for antibodies!
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Thirteen sailors aboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt have tested positive again for Covid-19 after recovering from the disease and returning to the ship, which has been stranded in Guam since late March after an outbreak of the virus, according to two U.S. defense officials.
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Around a quarter of the over 1,000 infected have returned to the ship so ca. 5% of them have tested positive again.
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  #9610  
Old 17.05.2020, 10:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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So much for antibodies!


Source

Around a quarter of the over 1,000 infected have returned to the ship so ca. 5% of them have tested positive again.
The question is also, what does it mean in terms of severity and symptoms? Maybe you test positive, but only have mild cough and sore throat this time instead of fever and pneumonia of the first time.
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  #9611  
Old 17.05.2020, 10:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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A single event may be a statistical outlier (i.e. no-one attending had the virus). When it all began we still had concerts, movies, opera etc., many times per day, each of them collecting as many people as that protest.

What I mean is to get the same spike as we have had, we need to practice regular unprotected social group acts () of that magnitude daily, many times and everywhere.

Nevertheless, I would be very cautious to believe that we are now safe, as Austria cases have been on a slow rise in the course of this week (they had stage-2 reopening two weeks ago). Also, overall in Switzerland it seems flat or on a slow rise, meaning R is already 1 and further reopening may bring us a new wave (possibly with slower rise and more controllable).
It's interesting to notice that in Germany they started to "relax" when R was a bit above 1 if I recall correctly. Or did it get to that value very soon after? Either way, I think they re-opened when R was too close to 1. I find it rather unwise.
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  #9612  
Old 17.05.2020, 10:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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The question is also, what does it mean in terms of severity and symptoms? Maybe you test positive, but only have mild cough and sore throat this time instead of fever and pneumonia of the first time.
If you test positive then you are spreading the virus, regardless of the severity of your symptoms.
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  #9613  
Old 17.05.2020, 10:51
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Re: Coronavirus

From the Excel file that can be downloaded from the RKI website here, you get this plot:
coronavirus-r-ger.png
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  #9614  
Old 17.05.2020, 11:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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As a tax payer I think covidiots should pay higher taxes because the police needs higher salaries for working under risk and stress and they'll need new software applications too. Why on everyone's money.
Agreed.
A leading Covidiot was arrested yesterday in Hyde Park, London...

'Piers Corbyn, brother of Jeremy, was led away in handcuffs during the protest after calling the coronavirus pandemic a "pack of lies to brainwash you and keep you in order", PA news agency reported.' https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...virus-11989409
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Old 17.05.2020, 11:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agreed.
A leading Covidiot was arrested yesterday in Hyde Park, London...

'Piers Corbyn, brother of Jeremy, was led away in handcuffs during the protest after calling the coronavirus pandemic a "pack of lies to brainwash you and keep you in order", PA news agency reported.' https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...virus-11989409
A coridiot and a covidiot!
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  #9616  
Old 17.05.2020, 11:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agreed.
A leading Covidiot was arrested yesterday in Hyde Park, London...

'Piers Corbyn, brother of Jeremy, was led away in handcuffs during the protest after calling the coronavirus pandemic a "pack of lies to brainwash you and keep you in order", PA news agency reported.' https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...virus-11989409
You wonder why these people haven't got something better do to?

Having said that, it was inevitable that the anti-vaxxers would get together with the 'fake virus' nuts.
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Old 17.05.2020, 11:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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So much for antibodies!


Source

Around a quarter of the over 1,000 infected have returned to the ship so ca. 5% of them have tested positive again.
Yeah - its pretty clear that young people often develop minimal levels of antibodies, which is pretty common in mild infections where the disease can be blatted with T cells. If you got a nasty dose you, in theory, should be better protected.

I don't think there have been accounts of seriously ill people being reinfected - let me know if i'm wrong.
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Old 17.05.2020, 12:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agreed.
A leading Covidiot was arrested yesterday in Hyde Park, London...

'Piers Corbyn, brother of Jeremy, was led away in handcuffs during the protest after calling the coronavirus pandemic a "pack of lies to brainwash you and keep you in order", PA news agency reported.' https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...virus-11989409
I know him from my time in London politics. He turned up to an estate redevelopment meeting in Roehampton claiming the aim of the council was to "kill the residents". The guys a complete fruit loop.
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Old 17.05.2020, 13:34
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Re: Coronavirus

Ignazio Cassis, conseilleur d'état, just gave an interview about CV on the national TV (rts1). He is very interesting as a local politician.

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  #9620  
Old 17.05.2020, 13:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know him from my time in London politics. He turned up to an estate redevelopment meeting in Roehampton claiming the aim of the council was to "kill the residents". The guy's a complete fruit loop.
Does it run in his family?
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