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  #9661  
Old 18.05.2020, 11:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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You sure about that? Geneva would beg to differ, given a fair number of people have been lining up to get food.

https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/bedu...e-doppelt-hart
So they are not starving since they get free food packages, actually proves my point that starvation is not an issue in our society since we are able to prevent it.
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  #9662  
Old 18.05.2020, 11:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yeah. I think we all know that. No intervention is without risk. Intervention should only happen when the risk from not intervening is higher. Which is why vaccines are promoted by health organisations and governments. They save far more lives than they harm.

It is an anti-vaxxer technique to stare wide-eyed at people's left ears while earnestly telling them that "well, vaccines aren't safe, they do harm people!!!".
I'm by no means an anti-vaxxer, however I'll need some convincing to take vaccine that has been rushed through in a matter of months for a virus that has a 99.8% survival rate.
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  #9663  
Old 18.05.2020, 11:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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So they are not starving since they get free food packages, actually proves my point that starvation is not an issue in our society since we are able to prevent it.

A commenter on 20min.ch pointed out that there are a lot of "Sans-Papiers" in Geneva that are exploited by the local population as cheap labor.


They have no medical insurance, no unemployment insurance, no retirement-insurance, not anything.


As such, when they don't get any gigs, they simply don't have any money at all.
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Old 18.05.2020, 11:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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A commenter on 20min.ch pointed out that there are a lot of "Sans-Papiers" in Geneva that are exploited by the local population as cheap labor.


They have no medical insurance, no unemployment insurance, no retirement-insurance, not anything.


As such, when they don't get any gigs, they simply don't have any money at all.
That might be as well, but if you've watched Swiss tv recently, there was a long queue and at least those in line who got interviewed were 100% locals.

Again, nobody is immune to poverty.
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Old 18.05.2020, 11:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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A commenter on 20min.ch pointed out that there are a lot of "Sans-Papiers" in Geneva that are exploited by the local population as cheap labor.


They have no medical insurance, no unemployment insurance, no retirement-insurance, not anything.


As such, when they don't get any gigs, they simply don't have any money at all.
Some of the people in the line have permit C, they prefer free food and refuse socialhilfe since it might effect their status in future.

As for people who reside here illegally for financial reasons, I really can't care for them.
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  #9666  
Old 18.05.2020, 12:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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...
They have an enormous idea of what is going on. But what they don't know is still quite vast as well. Try reading "The Beautiful Cure" by Daniel Davis. It explains the current (well, 2017) state of play in immunology in an accessibly way.
Thanks for the book suggestion, will look it up. From what I already read they do have many ideas but no definite knowledge of how it ACTUALLY works (either the brain or the immune system). New treatments and drugs are largely guesswork, trial and error looking for a particular effect but with little or no understanding how it might affect the entire system.
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Old 18.05.2020, 12:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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A Swiss study from the ETH in Zürich has suggested that the Coronavirus was already getting under control before Switzerland went into lockdown!! The study suggests that social distancing measures and behavioral changes from awareness of the virus played more of a role in reducing infection rates than the lockdown itself.

What the study also indicates is that school closures had minimal effect on reducing the rate of infection.

https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwe...eben-137881160
How are social distancing measures and behavioral changes to be differentiated from lockdown measures?
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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How are social distancing measures and behavioral changes to be differentiated from lockdown measures?
Keeping 2 meters apart, washing hands, staying at home if experiencing symptoms etc. can all be done without shutting all shops, restaurants, libraries etc.
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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How are social distancing measures and behavioral changes to be differentiated from lockdown measures?
One involves an effort to distance yourself from others, especially inside. For instance, denoting 2m gaps in queues, wearing masks and the like.

The other involves simply shutting things.
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Some of the people in the line have permit C, they prefer free food and refuse socialhilfe since it might effect their status in future.
Edwin, I like your posts but I see that you're using the word "effect" a lot instead of "affect" which has a completely different meaning:

affect: verb - to produce a change in smth.

effect: verb - to bring smth. about; make smth. happen

(these are among the top most frequently misspelled English words)
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Old 18.05.2020, 13:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Edwin, I like your posts but I see that you're using the word "effect" a lot instead of "affect" which has a completely different meaning:

affect: verb - to produce a change in smth.

effect: verb - to bring smth. about; make smth. happen

(these are among the top most frequently misspelled English words)
Every day we learn.
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  #9672  
Old 18.05.2020, 14:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Keeping 2 meters apart, washing hands, staying at home if experiencing symptoms etc. can all be done without shutting all shops, restaurants, libraries etc.
When someone "experiences symptoms" it means, most probably, that someone should be tested not only to self-quarantine. If you don't test his/her contacts and their contacts (don't even know how many people should be tested - ideally ), the only solution is to close that shop/library/restaurant. In some countries they tried to do that in the beginning of the epidemics, but it became meaningless very soon, hence the need for the lockdown.

Since no country has had or have enough tests, not even now, everything will depend on how crucial a business is. Or how well they can follow these rules.
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Old 18.05.2020, 14:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Edwin, I like your posts but I see that you're using the word "effect" a lot instead of "affect" which has a completely different meaning:

affect: verb - to produce a change in smth.

effect: verb - to bring smth. about; make smth. happen

(these are among the top most frequently misspelled English words)
I've given up on this. Started using the word impact instead.
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  #9674  
Old 18.05.2020, 14:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Every day we learn.
When (native) English speakers try to correct my English, I tell them that my German is still better than their German anyway....

(didn't happen irl though, only on EF)
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  #9675  
Old 18.05.2020, 14:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thanks for the book suggestion, will look it up. From what I already read they do have many ideas but no definite knowledge of how it ACTUALLY works (either the brain or the immune system). New treatments and drugs are largely guesswork, trial and error looking for a particular effect but with little or no understanding how it might affect the entire system.
I would not say largely guesswork - there is a lot we know, much more that we don't; but the basics of the immune response have gone through an explosion of knowledge since I studied in the seventies.
I find fascinating the interplay between gut and brain - not surprising in hindsight as complexity arose through gene duplications and we all develop from a single celled embryo.
A holistic way of looking at things fell victim to the way specialisation has been implemented in medicine -I had a really interesting discussion with a swiss psychiatrist who said there are now attempts to combine the GP's training with mind/body (psychsomatic) training in the basic medical degree.
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Old 18.05.2020, 14:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Keeping 2 meters apart, washing hands, staying at home if experiencing symptoms etc. can all be done without shutting all shops, restaurants, libraries etc.
The problem is without shutting all shops, restaurants, libraries etc. then people do not take keeping 2 meters apart, washing hands & staying at home seriously.

Just look at the photos in the weekend papers of Zürich and Basel now they have opened shops, restaurants, etc.
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Old 18.05.2020, 14:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm by no means an anti-vaxxer, however I'll need some convincing to take vaccine that has been rushed through in a matter of months for a virus that has a 99.8% survival rate.
"a 99.8% survival rate"? another statistic plucked from your magic box of imaginary numbers.
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Old 18.05.2020, 15:32
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Re: Coronavirus

In Switzerland, there have also been positive things during the Coronavirus pandemic:

- Finally there are more controls at the borders ))

As a result, property crimes (burglaries, auto thefts ...) are falling (-80% in many neighborhoods) as there are less thieves and burglars entering Switzerland who mostly come from the Republic of Georgia, Romania, Moldova, the Balkans and the French cités / banlieues.

- More shoppers in Switzerland (grocery stores, etc). Hopefully people can realize that shopping in Switzerland can also be very competitive and there are a lot of bargains.

- Less road congestion (Basel, Ticino, Geneva, Gotthard).
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Old 18.05.2020, 15:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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That is one benefit of Corona, it gives a good option to filter idiots out of your FB contacts, I've unfriended and blocked everybody with stupid posts about 5G, Corona etc since this started.
True, but in this case I'm related to some of the nutters. Also I prefer to know what they're thinking and why, because I know people like them exist. Pretending they aren't there doesn't make the problem go away.

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I had one anti-vaxxer explain to me that I could prevent getting the virus, and kill it if I did have it by inhaling lots of steam.
Seriously? Not a joke?

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I have seen so many elderly get the Flu vaccine in the Elderly peoples home. There were quite a few cases where after they contracted the flu and died shortly after from lung infections.

So get the Corona vax ( if it ever comes ) at your own risk!
You worked in healthcare. You know that the flu vaccine does not cause the flu.

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...Considering vax is made on egg whites base... The parents did a lot of research and apparently there've been quite a few cases like this worldwide, coming right after vaxing...
Not all vaccines are made using eggs. The seasonal flu vaccine is. I've always received paperwork about the vaccine AND always been asked if I have an allergy to eggs before the vaccine was administered.

Apparently not all vaccines can be grown in eggs. Covid-19 seems to be one of them, although of course scientists will try because it's a proven method over decades. Also if we think about how many eggs would be needed to vaccinate the numbers we're talking about in a short amount of time, it's unrealistic.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/27/h...intl-hnk-scli/

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...n-egg-c-991856

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I posted about this maybe a month ago. The did the same study in Germany and had the same result! In both cases lock down gave 0 result on the overall spread

But some people had their heads too deep in the lock down to actually hear/read it!
Not exactly. As we look back (that hindsight thing again) it appears the R0 number was nearing its peak just as lockdown-type measures were implemented. No one knew that at the time. Authorities had to assume that if things kept going as they were, the R0 would remain at or even increase above 3. That was not a pretty picture. It's only now we can look back and crunch some numbers.

That doesn't mean the lockdown-type measures had zero effect on the spread. They appear to have helped the downward trend to go faster than if we'd done nothing.

Now as for the effect on the economies of the world...
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Old 18.05.2020, 16:10
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Re: Coronavirus

No more talk about second wave, ha?

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"There's a good chance that we will be able to travel this summer not only around Germany but abroad in Europe," said Thomas Bareiss, the German government's tourism commissioner, in comments to the Stuttgarter Zeitung daily.

In the past week, countries like Spain, Italy, and Portugal have all announced dates in early to mid-June to welcome back international travelers.
https://www.dw.com/en/eu-tourist-hot...ans/a-53476116
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