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  #9741  
Old 20.05.2020, 11:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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I understand. It doesn't say though that you can be fined if you wear one.
Mouth mask are obligatory.
Only non-medical masks allowed.
Breaking the rule is 95,-

How you want to interpretate that is up to you.
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  #9742  
Old 20.05.2020, 11:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Mouth mask are obligatory.
Only non-medical masks allowed.
Breaking the rule is 95,-

How you want to interpretate that is up to you.

Can they still wear a medical-level mask under a burka without risking a fine?
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  #9743  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:07
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Mouth mask are obligatory.
Only non-medical masks allowed.
Breaking the rule is 95,-

How you want to interpretate that is up to you.

Actually, the website has contradicting texts.

First this:
Quote:
Is een niet-medisch mondkapje verplicht in het openbaar vervoer?

Ja, vanaf 1 juni 2020 is een niet-medisch mondkapje verplicht voor reizigers van 13 jaar en ouder en OV-personeel.

Then this
Quote:
Ik heb geen mondkapje, mag ik met het openbaar vervoer?

Nee, u mag dan niet reizen met het openbaar vervoer. Een mondkapje is vanaf 1 juni 2020 verplicht voor reizigers van 13 jaar en ouder. U kunt een niet-medisch mondkapje dragen. Bekijk de voorbeeldinstructie voor een niet-medisch mondkapje. Reist u toch zonder mondkapje met het openbaar vervoer? Dan kunt u een boete krijgen van € 95.
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  #9744  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Actually, the website has contradicting texts.

First this:

Then this
Let's agree to completely disagree. I feel no need for such non-discussion.
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  #9745  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Actually, the website has contradicting texts.

First this:



Then this
My Dutch knowledge is pretty rusty but I didn’t think it said that medical face masks were forbidden, I understood it to mean that face masks were obligatory but non medical masks were ok. The fine is for not wearing any mask at all as I understand it.
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  #9746  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can they still wear a medical-level mask under a burka without risking a fine?
Under the name of religion way to much is possible/allowed....

Burka are illegal in public transport in the Netherlands but hardly anybody cares, so they'll get away with it.
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  #9747  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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My Dutch knowledge is pretty rusty but I didn’t think it said that medical face masks were forbidden, I understood it to mean that face masks were obligatory but non medical masks were ok. The fine is for not wearing any mask at all as I understand it.
It only allows non-medical mouth masks, this automatically makes medical mouth masks illegal.
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  #9748  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Under the name of religion way to much is possible/allowed....

Burka are illegal in public transport in the Netherlands but hardly anybody cares, so they'll get away with it.
That was my poor attempt at humor while pointing at the absurdities and contradictions of the situation.

Laws and regulations take a long time to setup precisely to avoid contradictions or unintended consequences. In contrast, rushed regulations for the virus are full of holes and contradictions. I may be naive but I believe there's people able to think and decide in lawmaking and law enforcement.

I'd expect that the enforcement of imperfect regulations is done with a great deal of personal judgement. To begin with, can the police tell the difference between a non-medical and a medical mask in a packed tram? Let's assume all police officers are trained to tell the difference, will they fine the person for wearing an illegal mask when the overall goal (spirit of the regulation) is to ensure all people while riding public transport wears a mask?

I'd say your friend and family can wear those masks, no need to give it a second thought. Unless your friend has as hobby dissecting dumb regulations.
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  #9749  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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That was my poor attempt at humor while pointing at the absurdities and contradictions of the situation.

Laws and regulations take a long time to setup precisely to avoid contradictions or unintended consequences. In contrast, rushed regulations for the virus are full of holes and contradictions. I may be naive but I believe there's people able to think and decide in lawmaking and law enforcement.

I'd expect that the enforcement of imperfect regulations is done with a great deal of personal judgement. To begin with, can the police tell the difference between a non-medical and a medical mask in a packed tram? Let's assume all police officers are trained to tell the difference, will they fine the person for wearing an illegal mask when the overall goal (spirit of the regulation) is to ensure all people while riding public transport wears a mask?

I'd say your friend and family can wear those masks, no need to give it a second thought. Unless your friend has as hobby dissecting dumb regulations.
Police will not get involved to much in this I guess, it will be mostly the so called stadswachten "city guards", sort of a semi police force which has a lot of long term unemployed people with low education in the ranks so they can gain working experience while being underpaid and who can't handle the uniform and powers given to them, often resulting in very bad judgement.

We'll see how it turns out.
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  #9750  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Really wondering what you searched for if you found nothing, it really is in every Dutch paper and every news site.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...ven/mondkapjes.....
Dunno. I looked for gezichtsmasker, maybe that was the mistake.

However, you made it sound as if any "proper" facemasks are totally illegal to be worn on public transport. Your link now sounds more like one must cover one's mouth but a medical mask is not necessary. A reasonable demand to me and doable for anyone.

And <<Mondkapjes die worden verkocht in bijvoorbeeld supermarkten en drogisterijen kunnen worden gebruikt in het openbaar vervoer>> which is were average people buy their facemasks.

However, sorry I ruined the outrage.
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  #9751  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Dunno. I looked for gezichtsmasker, maybe that was the mistake.

However, you made it sound as if any "proper" facemasks are totally illegal to be worn on public transport. Your link now sounds more like one must cover one's mouth but a medical mask is not necessary. A reasonable demand to me and doable for anyone.

And <<Mondkapjes die worden verkocht in bijvoorbeeld supermarkten en drogisterijen kunnen worden gebruikt in het openbaar vervoer>> which is were average people buy their facemasks.

However, sorry I ruined the outrage.
You're making one huge mistake in your translation.

You type: but a medical mask is not necessary.

But it is like this: but a medical mask is forbidden.

PS: Gezichtsmasker is used for those liquids one smears all over their face.
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  #9752  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:49
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
You're making one huge mistake in your translation.

You type: but a medical mask is not necessary.

But it is like this: but a medical mask is forbidden.

PS: Gezichtsmasker is used for those liquids one smears all over their face.

It states clearly that a non-medical mask is obligatory. Not that a medical mask is forbidden.
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  #9753  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:56
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Re: Coronavirus

Careful with references people. Some people read them.
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  #9754  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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It states clearly that a non-medical mask is obligatory. Not that a medical mask is forbidden.
Just read that again yourself......

I'm so done with this bull-shit discussion over something so clear and simple. Do you want to stack them?
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  #9755  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Police will not get involved to much in this I guess, it will be mostly the so called stadswachten "city guards", sort of a semi police force which has a lot of long term unemployed people with low education in the ranks so they can gain working experience while being underpaid and who can't handle the uniform and powers given to them, often resulting in very bad judgement.

We'll see how it turns out.
If badly prepared people is in charge of law enforcement, that IS the problem. What the laws effectively say it's only a minor one.
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  #9756  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:32
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Re: Coronavirus

I was joking a few days ago that while gatherings of more than 5 people was subject to a fine....the Bern police did nothing during a protest with 100+ people. My mistake, the Bern police did something: protesters are banned from Bern for 4 weeks. https://www.thelocal.ch/20200520/ber...own-protesters
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Old 20.05.2020, 15:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just read that again yourself......

I'm so done with this bull-shit discussion over something so clear and simple. Do you want to stack them?

Then stop posting incorrect information and don't shoot the messenger
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  #9758  
Old 20.05.2020, 16:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Then stop posting incorrect information and don't shoot the messenger
Strange than that even Dutch parliament members are asking questions about why people should be fined for using FFP2 masks while on public transport inside parliament.

Or why public transport companies currently are re-negotiating with government about:

„Alleen niet-medische maskers zonder CE-markering mogen tijdens het reizen met het OV vanaf 1 juni gebruikt worden.”

Translate yourself I'd say since clearly you think that you understand Dutch language and how Dutch rulings should be explained better than I myself, Dutch politicians and the transport companies.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2020/05/15...-neus-a3999884
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Old 20.05.2020, 16:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Translate yourself I'd say since clearly you think that you understand Dutch language and how Dutch rulings should be explained better than I myself, Dutch politicians and the transport companies.
Well he is Dutch so in theory he should understand it all just as well as you do.

It doesn’t say that they will impose fines for wearing a medical face mask here:

https://www.government.nl/topics/cor...s-for-everyone

And here it says people who don’t wear a face mask can be fined. No mention of fines for wearing a medical mask.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/0...lic-transport/
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Old 20.05.2020, 17:17
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Well he is Dutch so in theory he should understand it all just as well as you do.

It doesn’t say that they will impose fines for wearing a medical face mask here:

https://www.government.nl/topics/cor...s-for-everyone
It also does not say one can get a fine when having an orgy with 100 adults in a barn, or when sitting in the park with to many people to close to each other, however hundreds of fines for such (the latest) have been handed out.
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And here it says people who don’t wear a face mask can be fined. No mention of fines for wearing a medical mask.
Government has in their rulings stated clearly which are the allowed masks inside public transport, so explain to me how one does not qualify for a fine if one does not follow that ruling? How about we don't use weird sites in foreign languages to proof actual governmental sites wrong. It's like I would use an article of the local.ch in an attempt to proof a ruling on admin.ch being wrong.

PS: In the same small part they have about the 1st of June they also claim that the fine still has to be decided upon, which is rubbish since it has been set to 95,- yesterday already.

Amazing discussion this, you'll amaze me. And if he is Dutch he should be ashamed by his lack of understanding of all of this.
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