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  #9801  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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You confirm exactly what I posted too: it's stated nowhere that you can get fined if you wear a medical mask - you can only get fined if you don't wear a mask at all.
You don't get fined for wearing a whateverkind mask, you get fined for not wearing a non-medical mask. Neither socks, scarves, nor your t-shirt count. Nor does a medical mask as defined in one of my quotes.

Honestly people, what on god's good earth is so difficult to understand? Where's your logical thinking, or do you have none at all???
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Old 22.05.2020, 06:36
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Re: Coronavirus

I worry about the mask situation in Amsterdam all the time
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  #9803  
Old 22.05.2020, 09:20
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Re: Coronavirus

Was talking to a close friend last night who has spent the last 9 weeks shielding her kids, both of whom have repeatedly been admitted to hospital over the last 2 yrs with chest infections as they were premature. Both were individually hospitalised earlier this year before covid-19. On their doctor's advice, they won't be beginning nursery for a further year to safeguard them from infection until they're older and stronger.

As their mum is a teacher, she's in work today preparing for schools possibly reopening on 1 June and also teaching the kids of essential workers. She's nervous. Her husband has taken the day off working from home to care for the kids and the moment she gets home, she'll be straight in the shower before greeting anyone to protect her kids.

That's one hell of a juggling act and I'd hate to be in her situation.
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  #9804  
Old 22.05.2020, 09:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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I worry about the mask situation in Amsterdam all the time
Maybe you should, 'cause the Dutch are coming, the Dutch are coming!

Kidding folks, you know that.


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Never admit you're wrong even when confronted with the evidence seems to work fine for some people here, dunno why they do it, I myself can be stubborn as hell, but facts are facts and if I have been wrong I do admit such, others rather go to hell than admitting they are wrong.

I gave them a Dutch governmental site.
I gave them a quote from a Dutch parliament member.
I gave them text from the Dutch public transport companies.

But hey you know what, all three of them must be wrong, since what do those people know about such....

.
Fact: facts and truth don't count.
Especially not on internet or online fora. The sooner you get that, the less time you'll spend on trying to fight with people you don't know.
Alas, I heard they all write in good faith.....let's be nice and play along. Every opinion counts etc.
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  #9805  
Old 22.05.2020, 10:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Seems it was the reporting, he wrote


Source

Deaths of around 1 in 5 million, not a risk of 1 in 5 million; he does not actually assign a value for this risk.

Edit: Seems the risk of a UK child under 15 dying next year is 1 in 14,000 so what is 1% of that?
So normal risk 10 Million/ 14,000 = ca 700.
You make me laugh, you really do, you realise it’s the JOB of this website to fact-check these numbers?! Do you think they’d be able to publish this if there were any doubt to these numbers?! Now we have internet statisticians correcting professors in statistics
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  #9806  
Old 22.05.2020, 10:47
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Re: Coronavirus

The more time goes on, the more we learn about the virus, the more we see what a folly a drastic lockdown was. Majority of deaths in care home and hospitals, children virtually unaffected as indeed are people under 65. Infection rate well in retreat BEFORE lockdown happened.
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  #9807  
Old 22.05.2020, 10:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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The more time goes on, the more we learn about the virus, the more we see what a folly a drastic lockdown was. Majority of deaths in care home and hospitals, children virtually unaffected as indeed are people under 65. Infection rate well in retreat BEFORE lockdown happened.
Here we go again...


Seriously?


I have a suggestion for you - why don't you sue whatever gov's decision has affected you directly (are they the "incompetent" Swiss? sue them I say!) and ask for moral or economic reparations? It would save EF from these unnecessary discussions and going in circles with people who're going against the logic.
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  #9808  
Old 22.05.2020, 11:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Here we go again...


Seriously?


I have a suggestion for you - why don't you sue whatever gov's decision has affected you directly (are they the "incompetent" Swiss? sue them I say!) and ask for moral or economic reparations? It would save EF from these unnecessary discussions and going in circles with people who're going against the logic.
Against logic?! That accusation should be reserved for those calling for a prolongation of the lockdown! The Swiss government have behaved rather well, as soon as they realised the lockdown was pointless, they ended it. Whilst a lockdown was understandable when knowledge of the virus was limited, it can’t be justified any longer.
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  #9809  
Old 22.05.2020, 11:11
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Re: Coronavirus

Matt Hancock said yesterday that the UK government estimates that 17% of London has had the Coronavirus, at the same time the infection rate in the city has fallen to virtually zero. A sign of herd immunity perhaps?
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  #9810  
Old 22.05.2020, 11:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Matt Hancock said yesterday that the UK government estimates that 17% of London has had the Coronavirus, at the same time the infection rate in the city has fallen to virtually zero. A sign of herd immunity perhaps?
I doubt it, to be honest, a sign of people limiting their social contacts perhaps.

I do not think there need to be these arguments to question the lockdown, I think looking back is useless and it distracts for what we need to do now. Lockdown happened (and here it was not even a full lockdown). We are months after it started, anyways. I think the clearest justification of the reopening are those people who are being laid off or do not have the means to continue paying rents and salaries for their businesses and are slowly being more dependent on the system and aids every day we post here.

The most honest governements so far - those who show faith they have in citizens and face these citizens with reality - have said it clear: the economy needs to be supported while taking care of the people in risk and those govs proceeded with reopening. Life has to move on and govs are reassuring protecting the most at risk. Those governements that did not dare honesty, for whatever reason, infintilized their citizens or panicked them.

There was a bigly debate on BFM TV 2 days ago, which actually has been covering the whole pandemics really well, in my experience. My respect to those French journalists and other experts who were really frank. On the panel there were doctors, journalists, editors and researchers debating about the gov and info trickle in media, the info sequencing and reactions that followed. There was a strong voice of people being sick of being infantilized with the constant "wash your hands" when they actually are asking for other, important thigns and logistics. When to reopen, how, PPE, subventions, who is going to pay, are these going to be loands or "gifts" of all of us tax payers (or people who actually do pay taxes)....etc. Vaccines, meds, safety.

I noticed myself tuning into channels that give superior info based on data and not personal or political interpretations. RTS, BFM TV. The voices on this BFM TV panel also suported the fact that there were many theories and this plurality and diversity will stay no matter how much readership and ratings call for having one ultimate treatment and one approach that lasts for months. There is no one ultimate approach and we are all going through trials and experiments, each country a little bit differently.

So to have a flexible leadership who says one thing at the beginning (no masks necessary, kids are vectors) and change it to something different the next week (masks on, kids can hug grandparents) is actually not a bad thing. It shows that the leadership trusts our ability to adjust to new numbers, new data, new research, treatments. etc. while still following the same basic common sense rules - avoid crowds, keep distances, wash hands, sneeze like a civilized person, etc.

I think when it comes to health, the political interests stop being a priority. I love seeing the political leaders here united in their corona fight to get this country healthy, operational and prosperous.
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  #9811  
Old 22.05.2020, 16:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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The more time goes on, the more we learn about the virus, the more we see what a folly a drastic lockdown was. Majority of deaths in care home and hospitals, children virtually unaffected as indeed are people under 65. Infection rate well in retreat BEFORE lockdown happened.


Seriously? No part of "numbers are low because of the lockdown" is getting through is it?
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  #9812  
Old 22.05.2020, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe you should, 'cause the Dutch are coming, the Dutch are coming!
Already been, the poor Brits got King Billy - he has a lot to answer for including causing my ancestors to look for something better - we have been waiting for the Dutch since 1653 -the lazy buggers haven't made it yet.
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  #9813  
Old 22.05.2020, 17:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Even with everything open things would still be crowded like hell, since opening the official pools gives the signal that "hey it's all fine, we can go to the beaches and parks" All those places are normally freaking busy with a public holiday and nice weather.

Besides that, official pool area's are more bound to the restrictions than a public area so not so many people could go in there anyway.

And I assume as usual that you were in one of those parks but it is all the other people that make it a busy place..
Its more that people dont choose a place to sit thats at the 2 metre distance. An example was Werd Insel yesterday. They all choose to sit like penguins on a rock although there were other places to sit where there were relatively few people. But no! Later on naturally the police blocked the Insel off and cleared them all away. All because of some selfish people the others have to suffer.
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Old 22.05.2020, 17:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Matt Hancock said yesterday that the UK government estimates that 17% of London has had the Coronavirus, at the same time the infection rate in the city has fallen to virtually zero. A sign of herd immunity perhaps?
Do yoou know how many people LIVE IN THE CITY ...what the density is there compared to Newham ? Have you ever been to London, never mind lived there

Are you talking about London, or the City of London?

Last edited by Odile; 22.05.2020 at 20:09.
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Old 22.05.2020, 18:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Already been, the poor Brits got King Billy - he has a lot to answer for including causing my ancestors to look for something better - we have been waiting for the Dutch since 1653 -the lazy buggers haven't made it yet.
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Old 22.05.2020, 18:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Matt Hancock said yesterday that the UK government estimates that 17% of London has had the Coronavirus, at the same time the infection rate in the city has fallen to virtually zero. A sign of herd immunity perhaps?
Source? In yesterday's briefing he didn't mention specific R values, according to the transcript.
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Old 22.05.2020, 18:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Seriously? No part of "numbers are low because of the lockdown" is getting through is it?
PROVE IT!!! I’ve looked and it’s very hard to find any evidence that a strict lockdown (as opposed to voluntary social distancing) reduced the rate of infection anywhere where it was implemented.
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Old 22.05.2020, 18:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Do yoou know how many people LIVE IN THE CITY ...what the density is there compared to Newham ? Have you ever been to London, never mind lived there
Yes, 9 MILLION! And there’s been something like less than 20 new infections a day for over a week now. This is no longer a risk to justify lockdown!
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  #9819  
Old 22.05.2020, 19:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, 9 MILLION! And there’s been something like less than 20 new infections a day for over a week now. This is no longer a risk to justify lockdown!
Power corrupts!
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Old 22.05.2020, 19:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, 9 MILLION! And there’s been something like less than 20 new infections a day for over a week now. This is no longer a risk to justify lockdown!
Have you ever wondered what made those numbers become so low?

And might the answer to that be a reason to gradually ease restrictions instead of just getting rid of them.

And I'm not going to dig but several people including me already predicted long ago that when the lockdown would get the numbers low that people would use those same low numbers to state that lockdown serves no purpose.
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