Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #10281  
Old 12.06.2020, 10:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Did you get that backwards? That the UK is better off having this huge economic contraction out of the EU, than being in and supported by the EU?
Think you may have read my comment backwards

Lockdown would have been the greatest act of self harm (I don't actually believe this, but go with me for comic effect) in a century...if you discount leaving the EU.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10282  
Old 12.06.2020, 10:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Did you get that backwards? That the UK is better off having this huge economic contraction out of the EU, than being in and supported by the EU?
With the upcoming huge amounts for the Southern Countries and the EU wanting to introduce their own tax system, they saved tens of Billions on that part. Seems like they left just in time.
Reply With Quote
  #10283  
Old 12.06.2020, 10:45
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,419
Groaned at 109 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 6,015 Times in 3,383 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

It seems like we might be in it for a long ride ...

Coronavirus: a second wave forecast for Switzerland

https://lenews.ch/2020/06/03/coronav...r-switzerland/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #10284  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:24
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 545
Groaned at 215 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 1,325 Times in 647 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
You still don't understand the objective of the lockdown, do you? Please educate yourself before continuing your factually unfounded campaign.

Also, please stop deciding who should die and who should be allowed to live.
Still believe the lockdown was a necessary trade-off to save lives, you’ll learn eventually!

And also continuing with the straw man argument line the lockdown WAS NOT necessary to save the lives of the elderly. Even if it was, wiping 20% off your GDP so that great Aunty Dot can make it from 84 to 85 is insanity!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
This user groans at TonyClifton for this post:
  #10285  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:26
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 545
Groaned at 215 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 1,325 Times in 647 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Pedantic I know, but it was a 20% fall only for the month of April.

What that means for May and then Q2 I have no idea, but it's looking bleak.
Is this the same in the rest of the EU/World?
Oh yes, thanks, I mid read that. Still an appalling outcome nonetheless.
Reply With Quote
  #10286  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:29
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 28,832
Groaned at 1,965 Times in 1,487 Posts
Thanked 34,180 Times in 16,273 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Meanwhile, from Monday business as usual:

https://www.ticinolibero.ch/attualit...S2CHiwZygMNswI

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #10287  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Still believe the lockdown was a necessary trade-off to save lives, you’ll learn eventually!

And also continuing with the straw man argument line the lockdown WAS NOT necessary to save the lives of the elderly. Even if it was, wiping 20% off your GDP so that great Aunty Dot can make it from 84 to 85 is insanity!
Aunty dot however was in good shape and could have become 95, a shame her family was never allowed to say goodbye and moments before she was put on respiratory support she was hoping she would wake up again so her grandchildren would get a chance to know and remember her.

Sucks for her tho that GDP was more important than the thousands of Aunty Dots. Not to mention that her Children whom also got the disease have not died but are in for a long recovery to be back to their normal physical shape if they ever can reach that again which is still unknown.

My Dearest Tony, people like you are sickening twats who do not deserve the attention even tho I responded to you this time.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10288  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:37
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,292
Groaned at 338 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 17,838 Times in 9,672 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Aunty dot however was in good shape and could have become 95, a shame her family was never allowed to say goodbye and moments before she was put on respiratory support she was hoping she would wake up again so her grandchildren would get a chance to know and remember her.

Sucks for her tho that GDP was more important than the thousands of Aunty Dots. Not to mention that her Children whom also got the disease have not died but are in for a long recovery to be back to their normal physical shape if they ever can reach that again which is still unknown.

My Dearest Tony, people like you are sickening twats who do not deserve the attention even tho I responded to you this time.
The loss of GDP exceeds the entire health service costs, without money there will be no health services across Europe & Aunty Dot will get an infection in her 60's & never make 84
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #10289  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:40
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 545
Groaned at 215 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 1,325 Times in 647 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Aunty dot however was in good shape and could have become 95, a shame her family was never allowed to say goodbye and moments before she was put on respiratory support she was hoping she would wake up again so her grandchildren would get a chance to know and remember her.

Sucks for her tho that GDP was more important than the thousands of Aunty Dots. Not to mention that her Children whom also got the disease have not died but are in for a long recovery to be back to their normal physical shape if they ever can reach that again which is still unknown.

My Dearest Tony, people like you are sickening twats who do not deserve the attention even tho I responded to you this time.
And you just wish to control the narrative as obviously facts and figures are meaningless to you. Like the fact that the average life expectancy of someone entering a care home is about 12 months.

You are also incapable of seeing that 20% wiped off GDP will cause considerable more misery, harm and lives lost than a few thousand deaths. Not that the lockdown has saved any lives in any case!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #10290  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Still believe the lockdown was a necessary trade-off to save lives, you’ll learn eventually!

And also continuing with the straw man argument line the lockdown WAS NOT necessary to save the lives of the elderly. Even if it was, wiping 20% off your GDP so that great Aunty Dot can make it from 84 to 85 is insanity!
How much GDP would be lost due to mass protests, rioting or God forbid, even civil war?

Unfortunately, your short-sighted worship at the altar of Mammon has left you blinded to the societal damage "just letting people die" causes. Don't believe me, look at America right now.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10291  
Old 12.06.2020, 11:53
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,292
Groaned at 338 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 17,838 Times in 9,672 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
How much GDP would be lost due to mass protests, rioting or God forbid, even civil war?
Since they are not social distancing there will be COVID deaths too, being realistic a lot of the protesters are not big spenders, the damage they do needs to be repaired so possibly a boost to GDP rather than a decline.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #10292  
Old 12.06.2020, 12:04
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Since they are not social distancing there will be COVID deaths too, being realistic a lot of the protesters are not big spenders, the damage they do needs to be repaired so possibly a boost to GDP rather than a decline.
"They don't spend much, so f them".

People still aren't getting this are they.

Also, the (deliberate) conflation of protestors and people smashing stuff up is really poor.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10293  
Old 12.06.2020, 12:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,292
Groaned at 338 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 17,838 Times in 9,672 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
"They don't spend much, so f them".

People still aren't getting this are they.

Also, the (deliberate) conflation of protestors and people smashing stuff up is really poor.
I was replying to what you wrote, nothing more.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #10294  
Old 12.06.2020, 12:13
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I was replying to what you wrote, nothing more.
Ah, you don't believe that and were playing Devil's Advocate, apologies I misread.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10295  
Old 12.06.2020, 12:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
And you just wish to control the narrative as obviously facts and figures are meaningless to you. Like the fact that the average life expectancy of someone entering a care home is about 12 months.

You are also incapable of seeing that 20% wiped off GDP will cause considerable more misery, harm and lives lost than a few thousand deaths. Not that the lockdown has saved any lives in any case!
Oh just shut up.

You keep accusing others of facts and figures being meaningless to them..

Yet.

- 20% wiped off GDP - Suggestive lie since there is no loss of 20% of GDP
- Not that the lockdown has saved any lives in any case! - Another lie, the tighter a lockdown, the less social contacts, the less infections meaning less deaths Even my Toddler of 3 understands this, but to be fair to you the average Toddler seems to be smarter than you are.
- Like the fact that the average life expectancy of someone entering a care home is about 12 months - Another lie from you.

I agree that the mods should allow different views, but the only thing you do is keep on disrupting this topic with lies, and that is one of the main reasons why this topic is not an informal open discussion but a huge pile of trash, and a perfect display of the downhill run of this forum.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10296  
Old 12.06.2020, 13:01
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,440
Groaned at 76 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 17,055 Times in 7,717 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It seems like we might be in it for a long ride ...

Coronavirus: a second wave forecast for Switzerland

https://lenews.ch/2020/06/03/coronav...r-switzerland/
I think this part of the article is particularly relevant:
Quote:
Any model that attempts to model something as complex as the spread of a virus will produce uncertain results. Any results should be interpreted with caution.
This prediction seems to cover multiple scenarios, so the headline is a bit misleading. No surprise, every news outlet needs click-bait headlines. Also if you look closely, the article was published on 3 June, but the accompanying paper was published on 13 May. We have much more data now than we did on 13 May.

The article says in part "Under a scenario where the country shifts to a “new normal” the model predicts a second wave that peaks in mid-August 2020...and there are an additional 5,000 fatalities..." (emphasis mine)

I'm not convinced by the worse-case scenario, and here's why. Switzerland has had 1,938 deaths since 6 March (99 days). The highest number of people who have died on any single day was 66. The average was 19.5 per day (99 days/1938 deaths).

There are 80 days until the end of August. This worst-case scenario of an additional 5k deaths by the end of August means we'd have an average of 62.5 people dying per day, starting tomorrow.

Okay, maybe they meant until the end of 2020 and the article was poorly written. In that case, there are 202 days left in the year. To have an additional 5,000 fatalities by Dec. 31 we'd have an average of 24.75 deaths per day (5,000/202). Again, not realistic given the numbers we already have.

Now to address Tony's point - read the paper that accompanies the article. It's only 19 pages so you can handle it. These well-trained researchers clearly state that the soft lockdown measures in CH saved lives.

Finally, while we're busy wringing our hands over this model or that, the ETH paper makes an important point:

Quote:
The accuracy of the model predictions hinges on the availability of high quality data and the understanding of the transmission dynamics of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Both elements are expected to improve over time which requires the constant updating of the model.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #10297  
Old 12.06.2020, 16:13
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 18,292
Groaned at 338 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 17,838 Times in 9,672 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Ah, you don't believe that and were playing Devil's Advocate, apologies I misread.
I always play devil’s advocate
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #10298  
Old 12.06.2020, 18:20
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,315
Groaned at 389 Times in 337 Posts
Thanked 16,265 Times in 8,822 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Governors in Oregon and Utah are hitting pause on reopening their states amid new spikes in coronavirus infections.

Oregon reported 178 new COVID-19 cases Thursday, an all-time high for the state, while Utah confirmed a new high of 556 new cases last Friday.
Most governors of states with spikes seem content to let their citizens sicken and die.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.06.2020 at 20:14. Reason: fixed quote
Reply With Quote
  #10299  
Old 12.06.2020, 18:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Governors in Oregon and Utah are hitting pause on reopening their states amid new spikes in coronavirus infections.

Oregon reported 178 new COVID-19 cases Thursday, an all-time high for the state, while Utah confirmed a new high of 556 new cases last Friday.

Most governors of states with spikes seem content to let their citizens sicken and die.
To put things into perspective, Utah reported as share of population a higher number last Friday than Switzerland highest ever daily reported number which was somewhere mid March.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #10300  
Old 12.06.2020, 21:24
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 11,287
Groaned at 182 Times in 150 Posts
Thanked 12,651 Times in 6,625 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Oh just shut up......
WTF?!


In the mean time, Migros seems to believe, Corona doesn't spread in the dark.
Had to go to a bigger Migros to stock up on some things "mine" doesn't offer. The entire first floor was softly lit. It was a bit eery.
Maybe I have to check the best-before-dates now that I can read them?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0