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  #10761  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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TA "Mr Maskenfrei. Daniel Koch, der ehemalige Delegierte des Bundesamt für Gesundheit für Corona, betonte zu Beginn der Krise wiederholt, dass Masken für gesunde Leute nichts nützten."

Mr Mask Free. Daniel Koch, the former delegate of the Federal Office of Health for Corona, repeatedly emphasized at the beginning of the crisis that masks were of no use to healthy people.
That was happening in the US as well, at the beginning of the pandemic (first month or two). It was all over the news that masks were pointless and the media and government officials were trying to discourage people from wearing them. All I could think was that they just didn't want people buying up all of the masks, resulting in or worsening a shortage. There was also a huge, long debate about it here on the EF in the "masks" thread, with many or some people saying that it was stupid for people to wear them.
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  #10762  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:17
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Re: Coronavirus

I think we shouldn't forget what kind of a situation was in CH when he said that. I am not justifying him, but for me this was political move. because, no way would epidemiologist say something like that. I mean, e.g. masks are standards in chirurgie.
at the begining, the problem in CH was the fact that there was no masks in the country. no production in CH and import from DE was stopped. so if he was to say "masks was mandatory" there could have come to panic, problems etc.
it was not only "medical" decission, no mather how non-human could that be.
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  #10763  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:23
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Re: Coronavirus

Now if and when you return from your holiday in a " high risk country" you will be forced to quarantine for 10 days. And they will call you up just to make sure you are home. Complete nonsense if you use a handy. Or maybe the put you in an electronic shackel
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  #10764  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Now if and when you return from your holiday in a " high risk country" you will be forced to quarantine for 10 days. And they will call you up just to make sure you are home
If they call me on my mobile, how will they know if I'm at home?
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  #10765  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe one day you'll learn that stuff behind a paywall means shit to me and many others and is worthless in EF discussions. But I probably have my hopes up to high.
Actually don't be so hard there. For the TA you just need a 10 minute disposable email address to keep you amused for 2 weeks.
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  #10766  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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If they call me on my mobile, how will they know if I'm at home?
Insist you activate location sharing?
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  #10767  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Insist you activate location sharing?
That would do it but I wonder if that's legal.
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  #10768  
Old 01.07.2020, 22:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't really care what they call it, especially as they have reached the level of Blick or at best 20min in the last few weeks. Also, not sure why you are - yet again or rather still - so keen on calling a few cases in an identified controlled cluster a second wave. What do you gain from this, really? Even if it were, what does it matter? What do you think will happen? I'm happy to leave you in your continued state of drama - must get exhausting after 4 months - but if you choose to be rational, see comment earlier. It's not so hard to understand that eradication is not an option and controlled step-by-step immunity the only way forward, so be prepared for many more "waves" - that is assuming you want to call confirmed infections in <1% of the population a wave (currently even <0.01%)
The absolute number is not important, what is important is the trend.
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  #10769  
Old 01.07.2020, 23:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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If they call me on my mobile, how will they know if I'm at home?
This might come as a surprise given the question.... but they can track mobiles.....
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  #10770  
Old 02.07.2020, 00:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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That would do it but I wonder if that's legal.
They can give you the choice.

1. Go back from where you came.
2. Sign this paper, provide your info and agree to the terms.
3. We can also lock you up if you please and hand you the bill for that.

Sounds perfectly legal to me.
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  #10771  
Old 02.07.2020, 00:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Data released by a major Houston hospital system no longer includes information about the hospital system's ICU capacity, a change reportedly made just a day after it previously was updated to show the hospitals reaching 100 percent base capacity on July 6 due to the COVID-19 outbreak.

The Houston Chronicle reported that the change occurred after a conversation "between Gov. Greg Abbott [R] and hospital executives in which the governor expressed displeasure with negative headlines about ICU capacity."

A spokesperson for Abbott's office denied to the Chronicle that the governor's office had asked for hospitals to provide fewer data about ICU capacity.
Source
Local Texas papers are reporting in Houston, the number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 has quadrupled since Memorial Day.

Unofficial sources are claiming the ICUs are now full; there are other hospital beds available but official numbers are blocked as mentioned above.
Internal messages reveal a crisis at Houston hospitals as coronavirus cases surge.
Staff may be more of a problem than available beds if they become sick.
More info here.
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  #10772  
Old 02.07.2020, 00:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Controlled herd immunity has and will continue to be the ONLY option.
This is getting ridiculous.

The presence of antibodies does NOT necessarily indicate immunity. The data from USS Theodore Roosevelt make it clear that even among healthy young people a significant number do not acquire immunity.

Please demonstrate that the so-called immunisation strategy actually works, and to what extent the disease does create one, and for how long it lasts.
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  #10773  
Old 02.07.2020, 01:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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As for masks being compulsory on public transport, I think many players wanted it to happen (cantons, SBB) but none wanted to take the criticism from the public or be responsible for confusion. That left it to Berset to make it a national thing. I'm not surprised at this stage, it's possibly the #1 place right now where people are in close quarters for more than 15 minutes.
My thoughts exactly, likewise with all the other measures and taking them back.

It's as if a new spike-up was provoked to enable a "see, told you!" in order to increase acceptance and simplify implementation of new, and potentially long-term, measures. Like limiting all kinds of gatherings, including restaurants and clubs, to 50 people. Because it means that traditional sports events, open airs, the Streetparade, Formula E, etc need to be canceled for the foreseeable future.
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  #10774  
Old 02.07.2020, 01:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is getting ridiculous.

The presence of antibodies does NOT necessarily indicate immunity. The data from USS Theodore Roosevelt make it clear that even among healthy young people a significant number do not acquire immunity.

Please demonstrate that the so-called immunisation strategy actually works, and to what extent the disease does create one, and for how long it lasts.
While I do that, you please go on and demonstrate your alternative strategy on how to proceed, as I presume you have one, seeing you're so utterly opposed to the "ridiculous" yet inevitable path that has been chosen across Europe and Asia.
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  #10775  
Old 02.07.2020, 01:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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While I do that, you please go on and demonstrate your alternative strategy on how to proceed, as I presume you have one, seeing you're so utterly opposed to the "ridiculous" yet inevitable path that has been chosen across Europe and Asia.
In other words your position is that
"you can't refute my claim unless you present a proven and viable alternative path".

That's a common rhetoric figure and obviously a nonsequitur.
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  #10776  
Old 02.07.2020, 06:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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They can give you the choice.

1. Go back from where you came.
2. Sign this paper, provide your info and agree to the terms.
3. We can also lock you up if you please and hand you the bill for that.

Sounds perfectly legal to me.
Sounds more like the extension of the Police state control to me
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  #10777  
Old 02.07.2020, 06:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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My thoughts exactly, likewise with all the other measures and taking them back.

It's as if a new spike-up was provoked to enable a "see, told you!" in order to increase acceptance and simplify implementation of new, and potentially long-term, measures. Like limiting all kinds of gatherings, including restaurants and clubs, to 50 people. Because it means that traditional sports events, open airs, the Streetparade, Formula E, etc need to be canceled for the foreseeable future.
But they can dance away in their clubs without a mask for hours on end snorting their coks.Not to mention club hopping! What hypocrits are these state politicians!

«Let’s rave on safe.»

Natalie Rickli, Zürcher Gesundheitsdirektorin

Last edited by omtatsat; 02.07.2020 at 06:54.
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  #10778  
Old 02.07.2020, 06:58
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Re: Coronavirus

Heres the Swiss model!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H-6...ibAw5XUZ0UavTE

Name:  FmopwdjEq3f8gfNYtzqm0G.jpg
Views: 482
Size:  81.7 KB

Last edited by omtatsat; 02.07.2020 at 07:40.
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  #10779  
Old 02.07.2020, 07:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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This.

Controlled herd immunity has and will continue to be the ONLY option. The purpose was NEVER to eradicate the virus as that won't happen either way, and the general public seriously doesn't seem to understand that. The whole point of apps and whatnot is precisely this - controlled immunity via identifying sporadic clusters and reacting to them in whatever way may be felt is appropriate.
What you are suggesting is neither herd immunity nor a nebulous "controlled immunity".

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/artic...h-covid19.html

Without a good vaccine herd immunity is not going to happen without a totally unacceptable number of deaths and may not kick in even then, if the covid starts to mutate like the common flu viruses.
What does controlled immunity mean? Social distancing and wearing masks is going to reduce infection rates which will reduce immunity.
You cannot have it both ways.
Eradication is impossible at the moment and may or may not be possible in the future
Current policies all over the world are aimed at reducing infection rates - and it is clear in which countries that aim is being reached or not.
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  #10780  
Old 02.07.2020, 08:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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As for masks being compulsory on public transport, I think many players wanted it to happen (cantons, SBB) but none wanted to take the criticism from the public or be responsible for confusion. That left it to Berset to make it a national thing. I'm not surprised at this stage, it's possibly the #1 place right now where people are in close quarters for more than 15 minutes.
I think I read somewhere that the Swiss had completely overdone it in procuring masks and now have far too many for what's needed. My cynical side makes one wonder if this rule hasn't been brought in just to make use of all those masks (I say this as someone who has worn a masks at all times on public transport since the start of the pandemic)

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Don't really care what they call it, especially as they have reached the level of Blick or at best 20min in the last few weeks. Also, not sure why you are - yet again or rather still - so keen on calling a few cases in an identified controlled cluster a second wave. What do you gain from this, really? Even if it were, what does it matter? What do you think will happen? I'm happy to leave you in your continued state of drama - must get exhausting after 4 months - but if you choose to be rational, see comment earlier. It's not so hard to understand that eradication is not an option and controlled step-by-step immunity the only way forward, so be prepared for many more "waves" - that is assuming you want to call confirmed infections in <1% of the population a wave (currently even <0.01%)
I mentioned earlier, it's almost as if there are those that are desperate for a second wave in order just to get a "win"
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