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  #10981  
Old 14.07.2020, 09:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Or a wet dream from drug companies if everybody needs to be vaccinated every 2 months.
Vaccines are the least profitable product for drug companies so I very much doubt that.
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  #10982  
Old 14.07.2020, 10:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Or that.

Also fascinating how people love to bitch about the industry yet now are somehow desperate for a vaccine while at the same time doubting immunity is possible at all or claiming that to be "forced to get vaccinated" would be essentially unconstitutional. Ah, all the contradictions...
Who are these "people" that do all those things simultaneously?

IME those who bitch about the industry are the same people as the idîot anti-vaxers and are exactly the people that would want to believe in natural immunity.
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  #10983  
Old 14.07.2020, 10:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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Vaccines are the least profitable product for drug companies so I very much doubt that.
If this was true, drug companies would not bother invest in the 'least profitable' part of their business, the shareholders would wan't this. Can you provide any evidence.

I would have thought the least profitable drugs were drugs that have been developed but never got licensed for use as they don't work or are not safe.

If someone comes out with a vaccine they can charge what the market will bear until somebody else comes out with something else or the patents run out.
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  #10984  
Old 14.07.2020, 10:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Who are these "people" that do all those things simultaneously?

IME those who bitch about the industry are the same people as the idîot anti-vaxers and are exactly the people that would want to believe in natural immunity.
The industry does have its failings though. The positive results from Dexamethasone in treating patients on ventilators would never have been discovered by the Pharma industry as it is a drug that is cheap and already widely available and therefore there is no profit to me made from it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...virus-patients
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  #10985  
Old 14.07.2020, 11:04
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Re: Coronavirus

From GSK for 2019

2019 financial and product highlightsPharmaceuticals £17.6billion +2% AER, flat CER; Vaccines £7.2 billion +21% AER, +19% CER; Consumer Healthcare £9 billion +17% AER, +17% CER (Pro-forma +2% CER*)


and on page 12:

Vaccines operating profit = £3 billion


Least profitable = still vastly profitable.
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  #10986  
Old 14.07.2020, 11:19
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Re: Coronavirus

Growing at 21% v 2% for pharmaceuticals, I know which looks the most attractive to me.
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  #10987  
Old 14.07.2020, 11:29
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Re: Coronavirus


given then GSK make things like ribena and toothpaste that have huge profit margins, without knowing what "Consumer Healthcare" covers its irrelevant
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  #10988  
Old 14.07.2020, 11:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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given then GSK make things like ribena and toothpaste that have huge profit margins, without knowing what "Consumer Healthcare" covers its irrelevant

Two different things.
From the report:

Vaccines operating profit = £3 billion
Consumer Heathcare profit = £1.8 billion
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  #10989  
Old 14.07.2020, 12:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Two different things.
From the report:

Vaccines operating profit = £3 billion
Consumer Heathcare profit = £1.8 billion
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Vaccines are the least profitable product for drug companies so I very much doubt that.
Vaccines have the highest operation margin, that would be the most profitable in my book.

"Total Group operating margin 20.6%. Adjusted Group operating margin 26.6% reflecting increased R&D spending and
impact of generic Advair in the US partly offset by improved Vaccines and Consumer Healthcare performance.
(Pharmaceuticals 26.2%; Vaccines 41.4%; Consumer Healthcare 20.8%)"
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  #10990  
Old 14.07.2020, 16:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not on Long Haul, where it's normal to spend several days before returning. I know numerous pilots who work full time which equals 4 long haul return flights a month.

There always used to be a 30 hour a Week, 100 hour a month, 1000 hour a year limit, has that gone the way of the dodo?
I must tell my neighbour who flew to China last Friday and was back in my garden on Sunday afternoon drinking a glass of wine with me that they are working for the wrong airline.

Anyway will have a three-week rest before the next flight due to the huge reduction in flights at the moment.
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  #10991  
Old 14.07.2020, 16:08
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Re: Coronavirus

Talking of neighbours, another one works in a Zürich hospital and tells me their majority of COVID-19 tests at the moment are returning holidaymakers.
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  #10992  
Old 14.07.2020, 18:16
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Re: Coronavirus

I actually just returned home a bit ago from getting a test for Coronavirus at my doctor's office. I had been feeling out-of-breath the past two days, which kind of came and went, and also waves of extreme fatigue, which would also come and go. But there was nothing in particular that I was doing to be causing the fatigue. I do have asthma, though, so it could be due to that. But usually the inhaler I take makes me feel better and it no longer was. So I figured I should get tested, and my doctor agreed. (Other than that, there are no other symptoms -- no coughing or fever, etc.).

As for the test itself, it was a long swab up my nose for about 3 seconds, and while it was a bit uncomfortable, it was certainly not painful in any way. It actually felt a lot like if you get water up your nose at a swimming pool. But the feeling only lasted a few seconds.

My doctor also gave me a new, stronger inhaler -- one that treats inflammation rather than the one I had been taking, which only opens up the airways.

She said they will call me with the results Thursday morning at the latest. Fingers crossed. So until I know the results, I'll be staying home and hiding from the world... well, apart from the internet.

Anyways... To anyone out there who has been thinking about getting tested, I say don't hesitate and just do it. It doesn't hurt at all and for me at least, I'm so glad I had it done.
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  #10993  
Old 14.07.2020, 18:31
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Re: Coronavirus

Could also be Epstein Barr.


Chronic fatigue is typical for that one, IIRC.
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  #10994  
Old 14.07.2020, 18:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Could also be Epstein Barr.


Chronic fatigue is typical for that one, IIRC.

Interesting. I had to look that up to see what it is exactly. If my test comes back negative, maybe I will ask my doctor if she could test for that. I don't seem to have the other symptoms for it, though (fever, rash, swollen glands, etc.). At least not yet. I do plan to also get my iron and vitamin D checked (the doctor said I should wait until after I get the corona results to get that done). The waves of fatigue are weird... they come and go and nothing in particular that I can think of seems to be causing it. Same with the feeling of being out of breath.

Anyways... Thank you for the suggestion. I don't think I had even ever heard of the Epstein Barr virus before.
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  #10995  
Old 14.07.2020, 19:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Anyways... Thank you for the suggestion. I don't think I had even ever heard of the Epstein Barr virus before.
You’ve probably heard of it but under another name. It is often called infectious mononucleosis (‘mono’ for short’), glandular fever or kissing disease. The latter because it is usually transferred in saliva and is very common amongst young people particularly students.
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  #10996  
Old 14.07.2020, 19:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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You’ve probably heard of it but under another name. It is often called infectious mononucleosis (‘mono’ for short’), glandular fever or kissing disease. The latter because it is usually transferred in saliva and is very common amongst young people particularly students.
I got it as a young adult, and it came with the worse sore throat of my life. The pain was so bad I couldn’t even swallow my saliva. Years after I still tremble at the memory!
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  #10997  
Old 15.07.2020, 00:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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"Herd immunity" not looking so hopeful

An important question yet to be answered is how well will a body remember and recognize virus reinfection and then how quickly manufacture the correct antibodies to fight the reinfection.
Only 65 individuals were part of the study, that may well make it statistically unreliable. It's hosted on a preprint server, not peer reviewed (yet?).
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From GSK for 2019
[...]
GSK is one of the remaining few big guys in the business. Perhaps GSK's simply better. Perhaps times have changed, not least because the business is less crowded nowadays. Either way you'd need to take the situation of the past, when everybody left the ship, rather than that today.

Fact is, anyways, that Novartis for instance sold their vaccine division after years of struggling to even break even. Likewise Roche, though IIRC they divested their division considerably earlier (like, a decade earlier). Berna Biotech (known as "Berner Impfinstitut" since its inception a century ago) is virtually defunct (admittedly management appears to have made huge mistakes). The big two are far from the only ones, non-Swiss big pharma likewise.

And of course there's the worldwide shortage on vaccines
"According to the World Health Organization, in 2015, 77% of European countries reported experiencing a shortage of at least one vaccine since the beginning of the year."
That simply wouldn't happen if margins on vaccines were generally as big as GSK's.

Last edited by Urs Max; 15.07.2020 at 00:22.
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  #10998  
Old 15.07.2020, 00:57
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Re: Coronavirus

With all the talks about herd-immunity many forget one very important thing.

Normally we consider herd immunity the amount needed to prevent the occasional pop-up of an infected causing an outbreak, for example if 65% would be immune than a disease with an R0 of 2 would not get a chance to cause an outbreak and absolutely no pandemic, somebody might infect a family member, or somebody in the bus or on the train but it would die out again pretty quickly.

The problem we have now is in a pandemic this works completely different since we do not have the occasional ill person but truckloads of them and thus even if we would reach the 65% there are so many infected that 65% is not enough to prevent the disease from keeping on spreading, you would need 90% up to even 95% of the population being immune with loads of infected people and an R0 of 2 Such amount of the population needing to have been infected would cause high amounts of death or survivors with long lasting problems.

This is why the idea of going for herd-immunity with little restrictions never should have been a consideration, it simply is a doomed to fail idea during a pandemic, everybody with an IQ of 100 or more should see this, it is simple basic math and logic. Add to that, that it is unknown how long the average person stays immune, if it would be just a few months the disease would just come and go for a lot of people and the pandemic just keeps going, just with a different part of the population each month.

And this is why restrictions in movement/gatherings and/or the enforced use of safety-materials like mouth masks are needed to get a grip on this thing.

I'm amazed at the amount of people who are against these restrictions, are they really that dumb and thus fail understand even the most simple logic, are they of the egoistic kind "this does not happen to me, and my neighbour is not my problem"?
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  #10999  
Old 16.07.2020, 08:12
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Re: Coronavirus

Decided to support the Swiss approach and loaded the Swiss COVID app on my handy. Now it keeps giving me error messages

Just read that the Brazil President Bolsanaro tested positive again for COVID, 8 days after his first test. He always claimed he was very fit and if he caught the virus then he would shake it off very quickly.

Worldometers showing over 70,000 new US cases yesterday and nearly 1K deaths, without strong measures that will just keep rising.
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Old 16.07.2020, 10:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Only 65 individuals were part of the study, that may well make it statistically unreliable. It's hosted on a preprint server, not peer reviewed (yet?).
.
A new German study of COVID-19 patients has found that they lost protective immunity within two to three months of recovery.
Also presumably not peer reviewed and does not state how many individuals.

Source
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