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  #11061  
Old 20.07.2020, 16:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting articles. However, the conclusion in the work from Karolinska Institutet is not enough to prove that more than 30% of the population has been infected. Look at this published work on Nature, one of the most prestigious scientific journals:



https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z


"Surprisingly, we also frequently detected SARS-CoV-2 specific T cells in individuals with no history of SARS, COVID-19 or contact with SARS/COVID-19 patients"


It might mean that the Covid specific T cells can also be generated by other viruses in the corona family. This is actually also suggested in your bbc link.
Also interesting that the link in the post from gaburko about the Prof Beda M Stadler article has the same point about Covid specific T cells can also be generated by other viruses in the corona family.
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  #11062  
Old 20.07.2020, 16:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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I just noticed this as the main headline on BBC and thought I'd share it here...

BREAKING: Coronavirus: Oxford vaccine can train immune system
...as the commentary (at least in the Graun) makes clear, this is sort-of a minimum hurdle but still excellent news and hopefully the vaccine will prove to confer at least some level of immunity (not yet established).

In a second piece of good news today, a drug called SNG001 (apparently a variant of Interferon-beta) has shown a near 80% reduction in patients needing ventilation or dying compared to a placebo. Only a small scale trial so far but still looking good.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...say-scientists
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  #11063  
Old 20.07.2020, 17:13
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Re: Coronavirus

Great. The stock market has celebrated early hopes on such trials a good number of times now. There better be something that really works and lasts at the end.
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  #11064  
Old 20.07.2020, 17:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Oh and the UK would close to 0.5 million Coronavirus deaths if they hadn't had a lockdown. http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/loc...040960.article
TBF that's actually mentioned in the Telegraph article quoted. It's well hidden, but still ...
"The report points out that nearly 500,000 people would have died from coronavirus if the virus had been allowed to run through the population unchecked."

That said, of course that is ignored, the lockdown can't possibly have had positive consequences.
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  #11065  
Old 21.07.2020, 05:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Couldn't happen to a nicer person.

"Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro Tests Positive For Coronavirus"

Source: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jair-...b6e97b56890c81
He seems to be slowly recovering two weeks after testing positive, video today of him walking in the grounds of the presidential palace. He was wearing a mask!

He claims he was taking hydroxychloroquine although the Brazilian Society of Infectious Disease issued a report for medical professionals to halt the use of the drug on COVID-19 patients.

Two more Brazilian ministers also now tested positive!
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  #11066  
Old 22.07.2020, 03:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please explain what is laughable about over half a million people dying?

This was another one of those articles that claim the models forecasting many deaths were wrong .
Faux outrage.

Are you all aware the C-19 Stimulus Package in the US pays hospitals 20% more Medicare dollars to hospitals for C-19 related deaths v other fatalities?

I can see no conflict of interest here whatsoever...
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  #11067  
Old 22.07.2020, 03:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Faux outrage.

Are you all aware the C-19 Stimulus Package in the US pays hospitals 20% more Medicare dollars to hospitals for C-19 related deaths v other fatalities?

I can see no conflict of interest here whatsoever...
My niece is a Phycisian's Assistant (more qualified than a nurse) and works at UPENN Hospital (a very reputable one in Philadelphia) and she told me the same thing. Also, in the past, when one presented with influenza and another co-morbidity, the cause of death was the co-morbidity NOT influenza. Not the case with COVID, as hospitals make more money citing a Covid cause of death.

The data collection regarding COVID in the US is so arbitrary/inept - mind boggling for sure! Each state does their own thing as do hospitals... This will be a very interesting read in 2-3 years time when an investigative journalist writes a book.

In the meantime, Americans live in fear, panic and doubt. Who can trust anything one reads in the US press these days?
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  #11068  
Old 22.07.2020, 05:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the meantime, Americans live in fear, panic and doubt. Who can trust anything one reads in the US press these days?
Genau!
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  #11069  
Old 22.07.2020, 05:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the meantime, Americans live in fear, panic and doubt. Who can trust anything one reads in the US press these days?
Not limited to ‘these days’
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  #11070  
Old 22.07.2020, 07:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Faux outrage.

Are you all aware the C-19 Stimulus Package in the US pays hospitals 20% more Medicare dollars to hospitals for C-19 related deaths v other fatalities?

I can see no conflict of interest here whatsoever...
Yes, but some of that is designed to compensate for uninsured patients and because elective procedures have been suspended.

Also, Medicare pays more if the patient is on a ventilator, because it’s labor/resource intensive.

Am I saying there is no fraud? No, but it’s not a big conspiracy.

Anyway, here’s a decent resource if you’d like more info...
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/
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  #11071  
Old 22.07.2020, 13:48
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Re: Coronavirus

It gets more absurd, the average age for Covid deaths in Scotland has HIGHER than average life expectancy!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments
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  #11072  
Old 22.07.2020, 14:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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It gets more absurd, the average age for Covid deaths in Scotland has HIGHER than average life expectancy!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments
What can we do to help you understand your own info?
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  #11073  
Old 22.07.2020, 14:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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What can we do to help you understand your own info?
Even if the info is from a rag, it's still interesting information to see. What part of TC's information is misunderstood?
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  #11074  
Old 22.07.2020, 14:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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It gets more absurd, the average age for Covid deaths in Scotland has HIGHER than average life expectancy!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments
So what, for every disease the elderly are hugely more vulnerable than the young.

In a 20-year US pneumonia study, patients older than 80 years of age had the highest mortality rate, which was 37.7%.

Another example Ischaemic heart disease (IHD) is the leading cause of death worldwide.

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  #11075  
Old 22.07.2020, 14:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Even if the info is from a rag, it's still interesting information to see. What part of TC's information is misunderstood?
What is absurd about it?

This is the situation in each country, nothing weird or absurd about it.
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  #11076  
Old 22.07.2020, 15:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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So what, for every disease the elderly are hugely more vulnerable than the young.

In a 20-year US pneumonia study, patients older than 80 years of age had the highest mortality rate, which was 37.7%.

Another example Ischaemic heart disease (IHD) is the leading cause of death worldwide.

Attachment 139908

It was different for the Spanish flu, which was atypically fatal to those aged 20–40 years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734171/


And also for H1N1, where 80% of deaths were <65. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-...ith-swine-flu/
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  #11077  
Old 22.07.2020, 15:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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So what, for every disease the elderly are hugely more vulnerable than the young.
Attachment 139908
That's nature trying to tell us something.
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  #11078  
Old 22.07.2020, 15:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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It was different for the Spanish flu, which was atypically fatal to those aged 20–40 years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734171/


And also for H1N1, where 80% of deaths were <65. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-...ith-swine-flu/
Some nuances.

Large majority of those infected where younger than 30, and most of the vaccins went to the elderly.

We're still missing a lot of data to make better comparisations.
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  #11079  
Old 22.07.2020, 16:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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It was different for the Spanish flu, which was atypically fatal to those aged 20–40 years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734171/


And also for H1N1, where 80% of deaths were <65. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-...ith-swine-flu/
If you do some further research you will find a theory that for both diseases older people had survived an earlier round of a similar virus so consequently had some immunity.
Younger people were not around for the earlier round of the similar virus so had no immunity.

This does question the theory that people who had a corona virus infection now have some T cell driven immunity since older people would be more likely to have such T cells.

All goes to show how little we still know about COVID-19.
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  #11080  
Old 22.07.2020, 16:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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What is absurd about it?

This is the situation in each country, nothing weird or absurd about it.
Absurd that schools remain closed in many parts of the world for a virus that has a 1 in 3.5 million chance of killing children under 15. Absurd that millions will lose jobs for a virus that disproportionately kills only the very elderly. Absurd that people are terrified of a virus that statistically speaking has a extremely small chance of killing them.
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