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  #11861  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. F your individualism.
This is the crux. If you think like this, we obviously disagree about what individualism means, let alone what is morally defensible.
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  #11862  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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So people in your own country that are infected by a virus are so valuable that you lockdown an economy, but at the same time we keep our eyes closed for people dying in wars, starvation, slavery or poverty because they are out of sight and we don't really seem to care.
They are different things and it is an illogical, strawman argument to compare them directly in this context.

A government will almost always have a far greater and immediate responsibility/prioritization to dealing with threats to it's own citizens and within its own borders than those elsewhere in the world. If at your age you don't know that basic concept of national security then I would be very surprised.

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My 2 boys have the lowest probability of fatality due to C-19. They are more likely to do something stupid at a party or when crossing a street. I can't protect them form either so i'm not going to worry.

I have had brothers and sisters die in plane crashes, cancer, jungle pneumonia and natural causes.

C-19 ain't shit.

I feel sorry for all of you living in fear.
When I read posts like this I can't help but feel sorry for the kids. Not just because the attitude puts them at more risk, but because they will almost undoubtedly grow up heavily influenced by such illogical and mind-numbing ignorance.

Last edited by Chuff; 21.08.2020 at 09:23.
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  #11863  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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They are different things and it is an illogical, strawman argument to compare them directly in this context.

A government will almost always have a far greater and immediate responsibility/prioritization to dealing with threats to it's own citizens and within its own borders than those elsewhere in the world. If at your age you don't know that basic concept of national security then I would be very surprised.

So would these governments now work on explaining the coronavirus how the concept of national borders works, so that their countries are safe?
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  #11864  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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When I read posts like this I can't help but feel sorry for the kids. Not just because the attitude puts them at more risk, but because they will almost undoubtedly grow up heavily influenced by such illogical and mind-numbing ignorance.
Had a look recently at the numbers for kids? Put simply your kid has more chance of being struck by lighting than dying from coronavirus.
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  #11865  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. F your individualism.
Depends on the definition of "needs".

If you define needs as protecting the many from catching and spreading infection .....
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  #11866  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:40
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So would these governments now work on explaining the coronavirus how the concept of national borders works, so that their countries are safe?
Not sure if serious or if you are purposefully trying to sound as silly as possible?

There is no logical connection between what I quoted (you saying that world poverty and war is more important for governments to deal with that the immediate threat of controlling COVID within their borders) and what you just now wrote (that COVID goes across borders). Utterly bizzarre.
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  #11867  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:50
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Re: Coronavirus

On the ground info from local EDs, a surge being experienced both in terms of positive cases and hospitalizations
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  #11868  
Old 21.08.2020, 09:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Had a look recently at the numbers for kids? Put simply your kid has more chance of being struck by lighting than dying from coronavirus.

Did you mean lightning or are you talking about people killed by falling chandeliers?

Take the US as an example. They have around 400 people per year struck by lightning (10% died) and in half a year had almost 6 million COVID-19 cases which does not seem to support your claim.
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  #11869  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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So would these governments now work on explaining the coronavirus how the concept of national borders works, so that their countries are safe?
Did you miss the fact that governments often close their borders as a safety measure?
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  #11870  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Did you mean lightning or are you talking about people killed by falling chandeliers?

Take the US as an example. They have around 400 people per year struck by lightning (10% died) and in half a year had almost 6 million COVID-19 cases which does not seem to support your claim.
You misread what he said. He's referring specifically to kids. Statistics indeed support his claim as the cumulative rate of pediatric COVID-19–associated hospitalization is really low (under 8.0 per 100,000 population)
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  #11871  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Did you mean lightning or are you talking about people killed by falling chandeliers?

Take the US as an example. They have around 400 people per year struck by lightning (10% died) and in half a year had almost 6 million COVID-19 cases which does not seem to support your claim.
It is pretty much a given that anyone arguing against the seriousness of COVID does not have the facts or science to back up their claims.

So, according to official datam far COVID has accounted for over 22.6m infections and 790 thousand deaths worldwide, which is around 1% of the 70-85 million people killed in WWII (which was 3% of the entire worlds population at the time). https://news.google.com/covid19/map?...S&ceid=US%3Aen

If left unchecked (ie: the initial phases of the pandemic, or later phases in the USA due to the inaction), COVID spreads fast and kills, on average, 3.5% of all people who are infected by it within a short space of time (792k is 3.5% of 22.6m), which is why it caused such panic and strain on local services and why such caution has been exercised in limiting the further spread within populations.

That is statistically significant and anyone who says otherwise is either being purposefully deceptive or an ignorant fool.
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  #11872  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is pretty much a given that anyone arguing against the seriousness of COVID does not have the facts or science to back up their claims.

So, according to official datam far COVID has accounted for over 22.6m infections and 790 thousand deaths worldwide, which is around 1% of the 70-85 million people killed in WWII (which was 3% of the entire worlds population at the time). https://news.google.com/covid19/map?...S&ceid=US%3Aen

If left unchecked (ie: the initial phases of the pandemic, or later phases in the USA due to the inaction), COVID spreads fast and kills, on average, 3.5% of all people who are infected by it within a short space of time (792k is 3.5% of 22.6m), which is why it caused such panic and strain on local services and why such caution has been exercised in limiting the further spread within populations.

That is statistically significant and anyone who says otherwise is either being purposefully deceptive or an ignorant fool.
Death rate is well below 1%, 80% of positive tests in Malta are people with zero symptoms, that would imply 5 times the no of ill people have been infected.

Clearly you are frightened, governments did a good job
https://theconversation.com/the-poli...NymJPJG285Ng3w

https://www.nzcpr.com/the-politics-o...5XvMJyg_8kFUxo
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  #11873  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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That is statistically significant and anyone who says otherwise is either being purposefully deceptive or an ignorant fool.
Or has a better grasp of statistics and probabilities than you
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  #11874  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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On the ground info from local EDs, a surge being experienced both in terms of positive cases and hospitalizations
You're scared buddy? Don't worry, it's not as dangerous as they make it
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  #11875  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Death rate is well below 1%, 80% of positive tests in Malta are people with zero symptoms, that would imply 5 times the no of ill people have been infected.
How and when is the follow up check conducted on these people?

One of the problem with initial testing was that people who had corona virus, were positive in a test, but had not yet developed symptoms, were marked as symptom-free.
If the health workers had gone back in a couple of weeks and re-checked these people, they would have discovered that lots of these asymptomatic people had developed full-blown, and long lasting covid-19 illness.
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Old 21.08.2020, 10:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Death rate is well below 1%, 80% of positive tests in Malta are people with zero symptoms, that would imply 5 times the no of ill people have been infected.

Clearly you are frightened, governments did a good job
https://theconversation.com/the-poli...NymJPJG285Ng3w

https://www.nzcpr.com/the-politics-o...5XvMJyg_8kFUxo
I understand from years of reading your posts that you are a man with Trump-like levels of empathy and compassion (ie: none that I can reasonably discern), but yes of course I am indeed concerned about a pandemic that especially affects the age category of many of the most beloved people in my family, that adds an additional layer of danger to what they already face in terms of life-threatening illnesses. if you need this explaining to you, then you are a probably a psychopath.

Your link from the first article "Theconversation" was from January 2019, way before this pandemic... it doesn't even mention or talk about pandemics, it just makes many dubious comparisons to government and media scaremongering and illogical phobias (like spiders... ehm yeah). The second link is just a conspiracy piece and the wild comments below the article back that up.

You consistently through your posts show that you are not only far from not only being an intellectual, but are also some way off from being a decent human being in general.

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Or has a better grasp of statistics and probabilities than you
gaburko I know you probably don't put much thought into anything you post, but I will humour you anyway and point out that what I quoted was the statistics based on the public information I linked to (infection vs death rates).
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Old 21.08.2020, 10:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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I understand from years of reading your posts that you are a man with Trump-like levels of empathy and compassion (ie: none that I can reasonably discern), but yes of course I am indeed concerned about a pandemic that especially affects the age category of many of the most beloved people in my family, that adds an additional layer of danger to what they already face in terms of life-threatening illnesses. if you need this explaining to you, then you are a probably a psychopath.

Your link from the first article "Theconversation" was from January 2019, way before this pandemic... it doesn't even mention or talk about pandemics, it just makes many dubious comparisons to government and media scaremongering and illogical phobias (like spiders... ehm yeah). The second link is just a conspiracy piece and the wild comments below the article back that up.

In addition to being a morally dubious person, you also consistently through your posts show that you are far, far from not only being an intellectual, but ar from being a decent human being in general.



gaburko I know you probably don't put much thought into anything you post, but I will humour you anyway and point out that what I quoted was the statistics based on the public information I linked to (infection vs death rates).
Indeed I have empathy for 99% of the population that are suffering because of lockdown, normally the public does not care about & even despise the 1% of the population that they are not part of.
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  #11878  
Old 21.08.2020, 10:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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gaburko I know you probably don't put much thought into anything you post, but I will humour you anyway and point out that what I quoted was the statistics based on the public information I linked to (infection vs death rates).
Posting is easy. Understanding what you post is your challenge

Look at the widening gap between confirmed cases and deaths:

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

What does that tell you? As you're mathematically challenged, let me dumb it down for you:

1. More and more people are getting tested and more and more people seem to be infected
2. Surprisingly, the death rate is not growing anywhere near at the same rate as the infections.
3. Why would that be? Well, Sherlock, many explanations why, the most plausible of which is that the vast majority of people get through without even realizing it hence the mortality of the disease was grossly overestimated.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...19-cases-soar/
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  #11879  
Old 21.08.2020, 12:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Posting is easy. Understanding what you post is your challenge

Look at the widening gap between confirmed cases and deaths:

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

What does that tell you? As you're mathematically challenged, let me dumb it down for you:

1. More and more people are getting tested and more and more people seem to be infected
2. Surprisingly, the death rate is not growing anywhere near at the same rate as the infections.
3. Why would that be? Well, Sherlock, many explanations why, the most plausible of which is that the vast majority of people get through without even realizing it hence the mortality of the disease was grossly overestimated.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...19-cases-soar/

My reading has also suggested that the rate of false positives is in the stratosphere, and moreso when a relatively untouched population is tested.
More testing, more positive results -- not alarming in and of itself.
Yet we're preparing for confinement to protect against a 'second wave' that is based on the positive results.
Worrying.
Some here would say that I'm a right wing lunatic because I worry about our lives, liberty and prosperity if we don't approach this crisis with a good dose of critical thinking and distrust of the establishment, whether that be government or media.
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  #11880  
Old 21.08.2020, 12:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Posting is easy. Understanding what you post is your challenge

Look at the widening gap between confirmed cases and deaths:

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

What does that tell you? As you're mathematically challenged, let me dumb it down for you:

1. More and more people are getting tested and more and more people seem to be infected
2. Surprisingly, the death rate is not growing anywhere near at the same rate as the infections.
3. Why would that be? Well, Sherlock, many explanations why, the most plausible of which is that the vast majority of people get through without even realizing it hence the mortality of the disease was grossly overestimated.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...19-cases-soar/
I am not going to randomly read through reams of data that I have to click and open, one by one, to find anything. Please just present me with the specific data, ideally using quotes in your post, that I can look at that directly contradicts my 3.5% overall death rate from COVID19 that I took by taking the public inforomation of the identified cases vs deaths to date.

I'm happy to re-assess my opinion, but if you can't present your evidence to me in a coherent and focused manner then that makes it very difficult.
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