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  #12301  
Old 06.09.2020, 21:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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That isn't the point, it basically means that most people don't care anymore, people want to move on with their lives and go back to living normally.
Not really. They are all running at 30% to 50% capacity to try to ensure spacing.

In addition the moist atmosphere there will greatly reduce transmission.
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  #12302  
Old 06.09.2020, 22:23
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Re: Coronavirus

The fact that the swimming pools/bath limit the number of visitors is in fact convenient. We were at the resort with the indoor swimming pool in summer, where each family had to schedule their visit beforehand and could spend only 1 hour in the pool per day, but there were just 5 more families in the pool at the same time as yours. Many families were with babies or toddlers, so there was plenty of space in the big pool and you could occupy whirlpool for your family few times during this hour. I liked it even more like that than if the policy was as usual.
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  #12303  
Old 06.09.2020, 22:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thanks, I have my answer. You have no clue how it works in reality.

If her work was worthy of it she would be able to publish it somewhere, the mere fact that no journal will publish it must tell you something.
That's quite a clumsy pivot if I'm being honest to focus on my "clue" in this field. I know exactly what I'm talking about thank you very much, and if you did you would know about editorial bias scientific publications too. Did you even bother to look up Professor Gupta's work and reputation before making your "an awful lot of criteria" remark?

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Wakefield managed to get his paper past peer review through fraudulent means. He was then caught out after The Lancet published it. The peer review is supposed to "systematically take papers apart", if warranted, but he committed fraud.

Gupta's data doesn't pass peer review, let alone her findings. Perhaps she should resort to fraud and cheatery to get this particular paper published.

I don't think you have much understanding of the scientific method of which you speak. The process is decidedly not to throw ideas and concepts into the public eye, published in reputable journals, and see whether anyone out there picks up any flaws. Probably best to leave science to the scientists -- something that Donnie Trump also needs to learn.
Oh, so now scientific debate takes place behind closed doors?! (smooth with the Donald Trump reference by the way )

It was because the Lancet published Wakefield's paper that he was found out! I still struggle to see the relevance between him and an epidemiologist who is still highly respected in her field

There's no evidence that Gupta's data doesn't pass peer review (at least as far as I can see). Peer review can be a long process and I don't find anything that suggests this is the reason her work isn't being published. But as you're placing so much emphasis on peer review, let us not forget that the UK (and parts of the US) were put in to lockdown on the basis of a paper from Professor Neil Ferguson that ALSO had not been peer reviewed at that time!!!
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  #12304  
Old 06.09.2020, 23:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's quite a clumsy pivot if I'm being honest to focus on my "clue" in this field. I know exactly what I'm talking about thank you very much, and if you did you would know about editorial bias scientific publications too. Did you even bother to look up Professor Gupta's work and reputation before making your "an awful lot of criteria" remark?

Oh, so now scientific debate takes place behind closed doors?! (smooth with the Donald Trump reference by the way )

It was because the Lancet published Wakefield's paper that he was found out! I still struggle to see the relevance between him and an epidemiologist who is still highly respected in her field

There's no evidence that Gupta's data doesn't pass peer review (at least as far as I can see). Peer review can be a long process and I don't find anything that suggests this is the reason her work isn't being published. But as you're placing so much emphasis on peer review, let us not forget that the UK (and parts of the US) were put in to lockdown on the basis of a paper from Professor Neil Ferguson that ALSO had not been peer reviewed at that time!!!
Still flogging this dead horse.

There is evidence that Gupta's data doesn't pass peer review, read my earlier post 12292 here.

I repeat
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So far, the scientific data do not support Gupta’s best-case scenario. Blood tests performed by the Office of National Statistics (ONS) on nearly 1,000 people in England suggest that less than 10% of the population has been exposed to the virus.


As I posted much earlier the peer reviewers said her paper was dangerous.

The reason they have peer reviews is to prevent highly respected scientists simply leaning on their reputations and to ensure their papers are scientifically sound.
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  #12305  
Old 06.09.2020, 23:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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I just spent the whole day at a thermal bath in Valais.

Full of people, not a single mask in sight.

To be honest, it felt good. It felt normal.
Clearly that's all you (and the other delusionals) care about, feeling "normal". Good luck with that buddy.
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  #12306  
Old 07.09.2020, 00:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's quite a clumsy pivot if I'm being honest to focus on my "clue" in this field. I know exactly what I'm talking about thank you very much, and if you did you would know about editorial bias scientific publications too. Did you even bother to look up Professor Gupta's work and reputation before making your "an awful lot of criteria" remark?



Oh, so now scientific debate takes place behind closed doors?! (smooth with the Donald Trump reference by the way )

It was because the Lancet published Wakefield's paper that he was found out! I still struggle to see the relevance between him and an epidemiologist who is still highly respected in her field

There's no evidence that Gupta's data doesn't pass peer review (at least as far as I can see). Peer review can be a long process and I don't find anything that suggests this is the reason her work isn't being published. But as you're placing so much emphasis on peer review, let us not forget that the UK (and parts of the US) were put in to lockdown on the basis of a paper from Professor Neil Ferguson that ALSO had not been peer reviewed at that time!!!
Tony, stop digging or you'll never climb out of this hole you're creating.

Modern science NEVER accepts new knowledge as true until proven otherwise. That's a ludicrous approach. if any person wants to publish a paper in a reputable journal, it does indeed go through a review process by peers "behind closed doors". And there are indeed many hoops to jump through. If you won't believe the published scientists on EF (don't listen to me, I have only one paper bearing my name, but plenty here have plenty more), just spend some time googling it and you'll find out that that's how it works. If you don't pass peer review (and refuse to bring your paper up to scratch per the peers' recommendations), you don't get published.

It's not about bias or suppression. It's about scientific rigour. That's what makes modern science so extraordinarily informative and valuable.
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  #12307  
Old 07.09.2020, 00:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Tony, stop digging or you'll never climb out of this hole you're creating.

Modern science NEVER accepts new knowledge as true until proven otherwise. That's a ludicrous approach. if any person wants to publish a paper in a reputable journal, it does indeed go through a review process by peers "behind closed doors". And there are indeed many hoops to jump through. If you won't believe the published scientists on EF (don't listen to me, I have only one paper bearing my name, but plenty here have plenty more), just spend some time googling it and you'll find out that that's how it works. If you don't pass peer review (and refuse to bring your paper up to scratch per the peers' recommendations), you don't get published.

It's not about bias or suppression. It's about scientific rigour. That's what makes modern science so extraordinarily informative and valuable.
No worries, Tony will shortly make us all look stupid by publishing a link to the scientific data that supports Prof Gupta's views
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  #12308  
Old 07.09.2020, 08:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's quite a clumsy pivot if I'm being honest to focus on my "clue" in this field. I know exactly what I'm talking about thank you very much, and if you did you would know about editorial bias scientific publications too. Did you even bother to look up Professor Gupta's work and reputation before making your "an awful lot of criteria" remark?



Oh, so now scientific debate takes place behind closed doors?! (smooth with the Donald Trump reference by the way )

It was because the Lancet published Wakefield's paper that he was found out! I still struggle to see the relevance between him and an epidemiologist who is still highly respected in her field

There's no evidence that Gupta's data doesn't pass peer review (at least as far as I can see). Peer review can be a long process and I don't find anything that suggests this is the reason her work isn't being published. But as you're placing so much emphasis on peer review, let us not forget that the UK (and parts of the US) were put in to lockdown on the basis of a paper from Professor Neil Ferguson that ALSO had not been peer reviewed at that time!!!
Oh you do make me laugh.

Let me go look for a shovel so that you can dig your hole a bit deeper.
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  #12309  
Old 07.09.2020, 08:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Tony, stop digging or you'll never climb out of this hole you're creating.

Modern science NEVER accepts new knowledge as true until proven otherwise. That's a ludicrous approach. if any person wants to publish a paper in a reputable journal, it does indeed go through a review process by peers "behind closed doors". And there are indeed many hoops to jump through. If you won't believe the published scientists on EF (don't listen to me, I have only one paper bearing my name, but plenty here have plenty more), just spend some time googling it and you'll find out that that's how it works. If you don't pass peer review (and refuse to bring your paper up to scratch per the peers' recommendations), you don't get published.

It's not about bias or suppression. It's about scientific rigour. That's what makes modern science so extraordinarily informative and valuable.
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Oh you do make me laugh.

Let me go look for a shovel so that you can dig your hole a bit deeper.
Digging, shovels? How about you stop putting words into my mouth and stick to the topic at hand?

Just so we're all clear, I've not said science accepts a new topic as true until proven otherwise (I've in fact argued the exact opposite!). Nor have I criticised the process of peer review. Sadly such a diversionary approach to debate (otherwise known as the straw man fallacy) is visible far too often on this forum!

I've just said I don't find any evidence that not passing peer review is the reason Professor Gupta's work isn't being published.
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  #12310  
Old 07.09.2020, 08:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sadly such a diversionary approach to debate (otherwise known as the straw man fallacy) is visible far too often on this forum!

You’re free to leave any time you want. Seriously, nobody’s keeping you here. You’re more than welcome to stop polluting these forums with constant regurgitated far-right disinformation and making outlandish accusations of systemic conspiracy while you snark out weak, myopic, intentionally misleading arguments day after day, seemingly only for your own amusement.

Really, the door is open. I’m sure there are better places for you out there, free of all your pseudo (otherwise known as imaginary) fallacies.
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  #12311  
Old 07.09.2020, 09:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Digging, shovels? How about you stop putting words into my mouth and stick to the topic at hand?

Just so we're all clear, I've not said science accepts a new topic as true until proven otherwise (I've in fact argued the exact opposite!). Nor have I criticised the process of peer review. Sadly such a diversionary approach to debate (otherwise known as the straw man fallacy) is visible far too often on this forum!

I've just said I don't find any evidence that not passing peer review is the reason Professor Gupta's work isn't being published.
How about you stop making sensationalist posts based on an article in a crappy newspaper?

You call it frightening without any basis for that other than what Professor Gupta said and start coming up with all sorts of conspiracy theories without any evidence for it whatsoever.
How about you do a bit more research (from credible sources) and come back to us when you have a bit more evidence.

For what it’s worth my husband is a reviewer, worked for many years with a renowned Nobel prize winning researcher as well as many other renowned scientists and has many many publications to his name.
I have proofread and corrected many articles for people prior to submission.
I know very well how the system works and if she can’t get her article published in a prestigious journal then there is a very good reason for it. Maybe there isn’t enough data, maybe the methodology was flawed....who knows? Without access to all the information it is pointless to draw conclusions.
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  #12312  
Old 07.09.2020, 10:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's quite a clumsy pivot if I'm being honest to focus on my "clue" in this field. I know exactly what I'm talking about thank you very much, and if you did you would know about editorial bias scientific publications too. Did you even bother to look up Professor Gupta's work and reputation before making your "an awful lot of criteria" remark?

Oh, so now scientific debate takes place behind closed doors?! (smooth with the Donald Trump reference by the way )

It was because the Lancet published Wakefield's paper that he was found out! I still struggle to see the relevance between him and an epidemiologist who is still highly respected in her field

There's no evidence that Gupta's data doesn't pass peer review (at least as far as I can see). Peer review can be a long process and I don't find anything that suggests this is the reason her work isn't being published. But as you're placing so much emphasis on peer review, let us not forget that the UK (and parts of the US) were put in to lockdown on the basis of a paper from Professor Neil Ferguson that ALSO had not been peer reviewed at that time!!!
There is also no evidence that Gupta's papers were blocked by editors so you can close your claim.
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Old 07.09.2020, 10:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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There is also no evidence that Gupta's papers were blocked by editors so you can close your claim.
It's a shame Edwin is no longer a member, apparently the Netherlands refuse to mandate masks
https://goldenageofgaia.com/2020/08/...r0Ss8m1G_rLHJQ
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  #12314  
Old 07.09.2020, 10:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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So how about this... If you don't want to wear a mask, then YOU don't leave YOUR house?
But if everyone else is wearing a mask then I don't need to
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  #12315  
Old 07.09.2020, 10:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's a shame Edwin is no longer a member, apparently the Netherlands refuse to mandate masks
https://goldenageofgaia.com/2020/08/...r0Ss8m1G_rLHJQ
At some places logic prevails.

Who wants to bet that countries will start backtracking on the mandatory masks soon?
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  #12316  
Old 07.09.2020, 11:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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You’re free to leave any time you want. Seriously, nobody’s keeping you here. You’re more than welcome to stop polluting these forums with constant regurgitated far-right disinformation and making outlandish accusations of systemic conspiracy while you snark out weak, myopic, intentionally misleading arguments day after day, seemingly only for your own amusement.

Really, the door is open. I’m sure there are better places for you out there, free of all your pseudo (otherwise known as imaginary) fallacies.
The lack of self awareness of someone making these accusations, whilst simultaneously saying that anyone sceptical of the lockdown and the risk posed by the cornavirus is a "Libertarian" is quite breathtaking.
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  #12317  
Old 07.09.2020, 11:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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At some places logic prevails.

Who wants to bet that countries will start backtracking on the mandatory masks soon?

Masks are only mandatory on public transport. Where else?
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  #12318  
Old 07.09.2020, 11:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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The lack of self awareness of someone making these accusations, whilst simultaneously saying that anyone sceptical of the lockdown and the risk posed by the cornavirus is a "Libertarian" is quite breathtaking.
Ironic. You seem to be aware of only yourself.

I never called anyone a Libertarian who didn't fit the bill exactly. Sorry if you don't like the description. Or maybe you do. Depends on the weather I suppose.
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  #12319  
Old 07.09.2020, 11:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Masks are only mandatory on public transport. Where else?
Exactly. Same as in the Netherlands actually, despite the claim in that largely fact-free Alt-right site.

Also in Sweden according to their public health head "The question of face masks is not dead.....But while not recommending them as a blanket measure, Carlson did state that masks are effective in reducing spread of disease......There might be situations where face masks might be a good addition to other things; when you see an outbreak starting up, if you have places where you can't avoid crowding and so on, there might be a need for face masks"

https://www.thelocal.se/20200818/the...gency-director
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Old 07.09.2020, 11:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Exactly. Same as in the Netherlands actually, despite the claim in that largely fact-free Alt-right site.

Also in Sweden according to their public health head "The question of face masks is not dead.....But while not recommending them as a blanket measure, Carlson did state that masks are effective in reducing spread of disease......There might be situations where face masks might be a good addition to other things; when you see an outbreak starting up, if you have places where you can't avoid crowding and so on, there might be a need for face masks"

https://www.thelocal.se/20200818/the...gency-director
Quoting 'The Local' the most trusted site on the forum
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