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  #1301  
Old 01.03.2020, 13:53
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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Legal obligation for those on holiday to return if the work has an urgent need for this, yeah sure. Such is covered by law. But there is absolutely nothing forcing retired people to return to work, we got rid of slavery.
I don't think an MD here has to take the Hipp. oath.
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  #1302  
Old 01.03.2020, 13:57
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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I don't think an MD here has to take the Hipp. oath.
No, they do not have to afaik. But then the oath has no legal binding anyway.
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  #1303  
Old 01.03.2020, 13:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Your advice/thoughts. We are booked into a Spa resort in the Valais in 2 weeks. At this time of year, lots of South Koreans and Italians (Loèche-les-Bains/Leukerbad).

Hot water at 45 ish, saunas, steamrooms and jakuzzis. Good idea?
Best to sell your tickets very cheap since it is so dangerous and nobody should go.

I offer 20%

But for real, I would just go (unless you still can cancel at little costs) and just assess the situation there, if the water has lots of people in it and you doubt just go outside and enjoy nature if it looks and feels o.k. enjoy the water.
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  #1304  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:00
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

The Declaration of Geneva, a revised Post - WW2 pledge, would suggest ethics are very much considered in CH.
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  #1305  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:01
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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I don't think an MD here has to take the Hipp. oath.
Even if they do, it is legally no more or less than a meaningless nice tradition.

And helping somebody in urgent need is covered by law and equal to all, and there's tons of valid reasons to avoid this duty and it is hardly enforced besides when leaving somebody after a car crash and such which you caused yourself, like when was the last time somebody got convicted here while looking at somebody drowning?
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  #1306  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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That sounds a bit racist. I thought anyone could have it regardless of nationality.
Don't de daft- South Korea and North Italy are among worst affected.
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  #1307  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:02
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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No, they do not have to afaik. But then the oath has no legal binding anyway.
It definitely is in CZ.

Which will make reserves easier..but we got no cases so far. Everybody counts on pandemics there, though.

What is interesting is that they allow just one corona testing center, probably to get the tests/data/interpretation easily standardized and maneuvered, project consequences....etc.

Last edited by MusicChick; 01.03.2020 at 18:19.
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  #1308  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't de daft- South Korea and North Italy are among worst affected.
My grandma would never admit to being racist either but some of the crap she says makes me cringe.
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  #1309  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:15
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Re: Coronavirus

Yes, same for mine. Leukerbad is just over the pass from Northern Italy.
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  #1310  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, same for mine. Leukerbad is just over the pass from Northern Italy.
Yes. Nice place. Honestly I wouldn't worry much about the spa itself (hot, humid areas) but would be more cautious in the changing rooms, lobby, etc.,...
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  #1311  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't de daft- South Korea and North Italy are among worst affected.
They're not all affected though. You probably shouldn't lump them all together simply based on their nationality.
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  #1312  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:39
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Re: Coronavirus

of course not- just stats and risk assessment.
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  #1313  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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They're not all affected though. You probably shouldn't lump them all together simply based on their nationality.
Don't try to turn this into a racist thing which it clearly is not.
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  #1314  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't try to turn this into a racist thing which it clearly is not.
It probably isn't, but lumping everyone from a particular nationality into a group because of some of them does have a racist overtone.
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  #1315  
Old 01.03.2020, 14:59
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Re: Coronavirus

Can we stop harping on about a sentence that for certain was not meant to be racist?
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  #1316  
Old 01.03.2020, 15:05
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Re: Coronavirus

Only the true patriots will enjoy protection from this ghastly virus!!!


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  #1317  
Old 01.03.2020, 15:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'd like to see a well-reasoned argument (not necessarily from you, but in general) on who all should be tested, and why. I've no problem with only testing people showing symptoms, otherwise we're spending a lot of time, money and resources on mostly healthy people. It's quite possible many people will get the virus and never know or have such mild symptoms they never report. But maybe that's short-sighted?
All the Swiss governments pandemic planning model is in the public domain It's a huge pdf, but even with a quick scan through you can kind of see which stage they're at if they're still using this as their template. The document is in this link https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...demieplan.html and a you can find a few interesting sections by searching these...
3.2.6 Civilian service
2.2.3 Messages
Protective masks and examination gloves

The UK has already began the Civilian Service registration this weekend.

Also within the doc is the priority for civilian vaccination:
Infants
The elderly
People with chronic underlying conditions
(cardiovascular, respiratory, metabolic, etc.) and/or
a compromised immune system
Pregnant women and women who have recently
given birth

The priority for testing and vaccination will most likely be:
Patient facing medical staff, medical lab techs, vets, emergency services, armed forces, etc... People like me are way, way, way down the priority list and I'm absolutely happy with that. I see it as a bonus to not be considered particularly at risk. Reckon it will be several months after this has passed before we get into the actual figures of those infected, perhaps with antibody check blood tests? Honestly don't know. If I get sick, I'm more than happy to wait it out at home...except for the boredom.

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Switzerland has a population of 8.5 million. If we scale China to here, it's reasonable to expect about 5,100 cases and 150 deaths. Is it a lot?
Hmmm... There's a fine line between sharing information and scaremongering, so I'm being cautious here. With the pandemic model they used for the BBC4 programme, they found... 'in the worst worst case scenario as many as 43 million people in the UK could be infected with a potential death toll of 886,000'. That's staggering and extreme so it must be seen in that extreme context, but personally, I'm more inclined to base figures on countries that operate in a similar way to Switzerland rather than on China, where we can make a valid comparison on the population density, transport network and availability of medical care. https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/la...2018/contagion
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  #1318  
Old 01.03.2020, 15:12
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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It definitely is in CZ.

Which will make reserves easier..but we got no cases so far. Everybody counts on pandemics there, though.

What is interesting is that allow just one testing center, probably to get the tests/dara/interpretation easily standardized and maneuvered, consequences....etc.
Just one testing center? How do they cross check, do quality control. Any systematic bias will just propagate.

Of course, I guess it depends on population size.
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  #1319  
Old 01.03.2020, 15:13
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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It definitely is in CZ.

Which will make reserves easier..but we got no cases so far. Everybody counts on pandemics there, though.

What is interesting is that allow just one testing center, probably to get the tests/dara/interpretation easily standardized and maneuvered, consequences....etc.
The Hippocratic oath is not legally binding.

Whatever oath they swear in CZ may well be legally binding but it is not they Hippocratic oath. They obviously have their own variant of it.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 01.03.2020 at 15:32.
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  #1320  
Old 01.03.2020, 15:15
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Re: Coronavirus abroad

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Not sure what help a bunch of very retired docs could be if they aren't up to date on the standards and practices etc. Plus most would be in the at risk category, presumably.
Your right but no doubt the government would have in mind this, namely those that return to the NHS to
volunteer their services will ( depending on their age, experience & any health problems they might have ) return
to work in a hospital department not associated with dealing with the virus.

This would relieve currently employed younger doctors & nurses to join the taskforce required to deal with this
outbreak of the virus.
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