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  #1701  
Old 05.03.2020, 19:44
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Re: Coronavirus

I see we're still getting moronic posts about statistics of dying of flu, car accidents, etc. To those people, inform yourself, we're at the beginning of an epidemic of a scale you've never seen. Your useless stats won't change that.

Meanwhile, it might be a good idea for those of you over 60 to stay away from children, as they can catch the virus without showing symptoms for ages, if at all. Family gatherings etc should be avoided for at least the next few weeks, no matter how sad it makes you. Your risk of dying from this is way higher than the rest of the population, and the older the worse.

Italy has closed all schools for a couple of weeks, South Korea for a month. We're probably going to get this measure too, plan accordingly. If the Federal Council goes to level 3 (any day now) we can expect many more restrictions on social freedoms.

Meanwhile we're still not being told about what happens to dead bodies. No country is mentionning that, have you noticed?

The UK is talking of hiring volunteers and recalling retired medical staff and possibly medical students. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here too. You don't do this unless something really serious is afoot.


Oh and I nearly forgot, the Telegraph has an article (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...ay-scientists/) about the virus having mutated, and this new variant is a LOT more virulent and deadly than the other one. this is not a drill!
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  #1702  
Old 05.03.2020, 19:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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The UK is talking of hiring volunteers and recalling retired medical staff and possibly medical students. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here too. You don't do this unless something really serious is afoot.
We don't have to call upon them yet, but we do have the time now to call those people to meetings to give them a nice bunch of proper education of the specifics of this disease and how to act and protect themselves. If we wait till we really need them there is no time anymore for such and we'd send them in like "lambs to the slaughterhouse" If we manage to get a grip on the distribution before we need them, all we wasted is some time and money. I have no problem paying tax for such stuff.
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  #1703  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:03
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Re: Coronavirus

Noth ''The UK is talking of hiring volunteers and recalling retired medical staff and possibly medical students. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here too. You don't do this unless something really serious is afoot.''

there is a huge shortage of doctors and nurses in the UK- this is the fault of terrible planning, made worse recently but the anti immigrant rhetoric and new rules, permits, etc. There is currently an official shortage of 43.000 nurses.

The system is stretched to beyond limits currently- never mind flu, corona, ice and snow victims, etc.

Retired GPs (and I happen to know many and have had recent discussions with many on the subject) are adamant there is no way they would consider going back. They retired absolutely burnt out and many having developed medical conditions partly due to the ridiculous hours and stress they have worked under- which combined with their age- put them at very high risk if they contract the disease. Makes NO sense.

Legally and medically, they would need updating and re-training, and they no longer are registered with the General Medical Council, nor insured with the MDU.
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  #1704  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:12
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Re: Coronavirus

A tree has to be cut back so that it grows better the next year
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  #1705  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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A quick update of the situation:
We are advising anyone who has frequent contact with elderly people that have slight flew like symptoms to come to the hospital and get tested.
Even if you have a franchise on your insurance, please come to the hospital.

[Mod edit - this is not in any way official advice from the medical authorities.]

The forecast of the number of infected will be around 100 by this weekend.
Please wash your hands frequently if you use public infrastructures and avoid touching your mouth, nose and eyes.
Why would you troll about such a thing ?????
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  #1706  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:14
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Re: Coronavirus

It's not an invisible desease, it's a virus that atacks your lungs :remember bronchitis? And the next stage, the fearful Pneumonia. Same same.
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  #1707  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Retired GPs (and I happen to know many and have had recent discussions with many on the subject) are adamant there is no way they would consider going back. They retired absolutely burnt out and many having developed medical conditions partly due to the ridiculous hours and stress they have worked under- which combined with their age- put them at very high risk if they contract the disease. Makes NO sense.

Legally and medically, they would need updating and re-training, and they no longer are registered with the General Medical Council, nor insured with the MDU.
They may not have a choice, if the government goes ahead with emergency powers. I don't wish this, but time will tell.

Meanwhile, Appenzell Rhodes-Extérieures got it's first case, a 50 year old woman. She quarantined with her family at home as she only has mild symptoms. She was infectted at a meal outside the canton.
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  #1708  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:21
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Re: Coronavirus

Those affected in Switzerland now according to reputable websites are well over 100:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

And this link is useful regarding infections by canton (scroll down the page to the map as it is updated frequently):

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/coronav...rules/45590140
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  #1709  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:22
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Re: Coronavirus

Warning! Some of the scenes may shock you! Watch at own risk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sYSyuuLk5g
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  #1710  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:23
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Noth ''The UK is talking of hiring volunteers and recalling retired medical staff and possibly medical students. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here too. You don't do this unless something really serious is afoot.''

there is a huge shortage of doctors and nurses in the UK- this is the fault of terrible planning, made worse recently but the anti immigrant rhetoric and new rules, permits, etc. There is currently an official shortage of 43.000 nurses.

The system is stretched to beyond limits currently- never mind flu, corona, ice and snow victims, etc.

Retired GPs (and I happen to know many and have had recent discussions with many on the subject) are adamant there is no way they would consider going back. They retired absolutely burnt out and many having developed medical conditions partly due to the ridiculous hours and stress they have worked under- which combined with their age- put them at very high risk if they contract the disease. Makes NO sense.

Legally and medically, they would need updating and re-training, and they no longer are registered with the General Medical Council, nor insured with the MDU.
Yup i think you hit the nail on the head .. All the talk is fine on hiring recent retirees but in reality they could probably only be hired on some kind of volunteer basis, telephone triage or something, not actually as doctors. And then, who the hell would want to do that..It's a nonsense headline grabber that they'll just re-hire retirees ..

I'm still changing nothing (part fr om a little more hand cleaning)and still touching wood that I'll be fine, I've never had anything in my life worse than a bit of a cold. Fingers crossed.. Obviously i worry about the kids but they're also pretty resilient and never had anything and we lead a far from sterile life..

The logistics, well we can't control that, empty shelves, closed schools etc..
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  #1711  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:26
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Re: Coronavirus

I disagree with what seems to be general consensus of masks being useless when its clear they are not. Cheapest/basic ones reduce people spreading the virus to others and better ones with at least ffp3/p3 mark are proven to reduce changes of catching the virus.

Only challenge with masks is that they are sold out everywhere and no one can produce as much as would be needed (ideally 1 mask per day for every person using public transport or other place with a lot of people).
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  #1712  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:32
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Re: Coronavirus

Is there someone here who's familiar with the statistics gatherers, who could link to something that shows whether the overall mortality (no matter the cause of death), per country, has increased since Corona? I've had a look around, but not found the data so juxtaposed.

Surely at least some people die of some collection of symptoms that are, during their decline and after their death, not assessed. Some deaths that were, in fact, caused by Coronoa, may not actually make it into the Corona statistic.

Such a category of "never having been tested for Corona, and perhaps dying from Corona, but not being noticed as such" is the more likely
  • if the person had been considered likely to die anyway, because of a pre-existing health issue or from old-age;
  • in places where the resources simply don't exist for such tests and/or for keeping differentiated records of the cause of death.
Moreover, if Corona really does explode - which we don't yet know, though precautionary measures against spreading infection are sensible - then the chances will increase that fewer medical professionals will have the time or resources to test or to put a tick in a box confirming the death as resulting from Corona.

Of course, simply comparing "total deaths per month/day since Corona" with "total deaths per month/day prior to Corona" does not establish any causality attributable to Corona, as any other of myriad factor could cause a fluctuation in the rate of deaths.

Even so, I'd be interested to know, as an indicator over the next few weeks and months. The greater the disparity between death rates during the periods before and then subsequent to the known Corona dates, the more reasonable it would seem to attribute any dramatic increase to Corona.
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  #1713  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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I disagree with general consensus of masks being useless when its clear they are not. Cheapest/basic ones reduce people spreading the virus to others and better ones with at least ffp3/p3 mark are proven to reduce changes of catching the virus.

Only challenge with masks is that they are sold out everywhere and no one can produce as much as would be needed (ideally 1 mask per day for every person using public transport or other place with a lot of people).
I agree.. mostly

Whilst most masks have no guarantee of keeping out all traces of virus, they are mostly better than "a poke in the eye with a jobbied stick"..

A bit like a bullet proof vest, it's probably better than nothing but depending on what hits you and how much much, it might not be fool proof.
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  #1714  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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I see we're still getting moronic posts about statistics of dying of flu, car accidents, etc. To those people, inform yourself, we're at the beginning of an epidemic of a scale you've never seen. Your useless stats won't change that.

Meanwhile, it might be a good idea for those of you over 60 to stay away from children, as they can catch the virus without showing symptoms for ages, if at all. Family gatherings etc should be avoided for at least the next few weeks, no matter how sad it makes you. Your risk of dying from this is way higher than the rest of the population, and the older the worse.

Italy has closed all schools for a couple of weeks, South Korea for a month. We're probably going to get this measure too, plan accordingly. If the Federal Council goes to level 3 (any day now) we can expect many more restrictions on social freedoms.

Meanwhile we're still not being told about what happens to dead bodies. No country is mentionning that, have you noticed?

The UK is talking of hiring volunteers and recalling retired medical staff and possibly medical students. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens here too. You don't do this unless something really serious is afoot.


Oh and I nearly forgot, the Telegraph has an article (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...ay-scientists/) about the virus having mutated, and this new variant is a LOT more virulent and deadly than the other one. this is not a drill!

Since Brexit, the number of EU nurses registered in the U.K. has dropped by 87% from 6400 in 2016/17 to 800 in 2017/18... that might partly explain why this crap government has to bring back the old folks out of the Retired Medical Corps!
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  #1715  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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I disagree with general consensus of masks being useless when its clear they are not. Cheapest/basic ones reduce people spreading the virus to others and better ones with at least ffp3/p3 mark are proven to reduce changes of catching the virus.

Only challenge with masks is that they are sold out everywhere and no one can produce as much as would be needed (ideally 1 mask per day for every person using public transport or other place with a lot of people).
Do you have a source for "are proven to reduce chances of catching the virus"?

About "ideally 1 mask per day for every person", the World Health Authority recommends changing masks when they get damp which translates to several times per day.
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  #1716  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Masks are a waste of time, and money. Except for medical professionals who know when and how to wear them. And are now having difficulties getting them.
Both my wife & I have been using them on every flight taken over the last 5 years, we are both convinced we have picked up far less colds than before. Having filmed in operating theatres I do have some idea how to wear them, last supply bought 18 months ago.
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About "ideally 1 mask per day for every person", the World Health Authority recommends changing masks when they get damp which translates to several times per day.
I used 4 masks today, one on each flight & 2 during the lay over in Rome.
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  #1717  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Since Brexit, the number of EU nurses registered in the U.K. has dropped by 87% from 6400 in 2016/17 to 800 in 2017/18... that might partly explain why this crap government has to bring back the old folks out of the Retired Medical Corps!
Careful .. Those numbers are for new registrations .. Not for nurses still employed..

"
The proportion of non-British nationals in the healthcare workforce has remained broadly stable since 2012, but at the same time the numbers have increased from 155,000 to 227,000, with EU nationals accounting for the majority of the increase.
"
Source
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Old 05.03.2020, 20:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I disagree with what seems to be general consensus of masks being useless when its clear they are not. Cheapest/basic ones reduce people spreading the virus to others and better ones with at least ffp3/p3 mark are proven to reduce changes of catching the virus.

Only challenge with masks is that they are sold out everywhere and no one can produce as much as would be needed (ideally 1 mask per day for every person using public transport or other place with a lot of people).

As per discussed best case scenario is everybody wearing it to reduce droplets flying around, not touching your face because you’re wearing a mask also means less chance to smear your body fluids onto objects. Second, you could be unknowingly infected and pass onto the weak and old.

News portals or government websites usually don’t provide extra information and the logic behind masks and most of the time just says don’t need to wear it if you’re not sick(you could be infected without symptoms, how can you be sure), or just claim that masks are not really effective... (not even VFE/PFE/BFE, with or without breathing valve etc.) And people making disaster money selling masks or fake masks with high prices not helping either.

I went to the supermarket the other day wearing a mask, got called “Corona!Corona!” By a bunch of teenagers passing by. Was not a nice feeling, but I do what I think is necessary to protect myself and others. Sometimes you just do what you can.
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  #1719  
Old 05.03.2020, 20:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Since Brexit, the number of EU nurses registered in the U.K. has dropped by 87% from 6400 in 2016/17 to 800 in 2017/18... that might partly explain why this crap government has to bring back the old folks out of the Retired Medical Corps!
They see the old folks as expendable
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  #1720  
Old 05.03.2020, 21:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is there someone here who's familiar with the statistics gatherers, who could link to something that shows whether the overall mortality (no matter the cause of death), per country, has increased since Corona? I've had a look around, but not found the data so juxtaposed.

Surely at least some people die of some collection of symptoms that are, during their decline and after their death, not assessed. Some deaths that were, in fact, caused by Coronoa, may not actually make it into the Corona statistic.

Such a category of "never having been tested for Corona, and perhaps dying from Corona, but not being noticed as such" is the more likely
  • if the person had been considered likely to die anyway, because of a pre-existing health issue or from old-age;
  • in places where the resources simply don't exist for such tests and/or for keeping differentiated records of the cause of death.
Moreover, if Corona really does explode - which we don't yet know, though precautionary measures against spreading infection are sensible - then the chances will increase that fewer medical professionals will have the time or resources to test or to put a tick in a box confirming the death as resulting from Corona.

Of course, simply comparing "total deaths per month/day since Corona" with "total deaths per month/day prior to Corona" does not establish any causality attributable to Corona, as any other of myriad factor could cause a fluctuation in the rate of deaths.

Even so, I'd be interested to know, as an indicator over the next few weeks and months. The greater the disparity between death rates during the periods before and then subsequent to the known Corona dates, the more reasonable it would seem to attribute any dramatic increase to Corona.
Governments hardly ever (if even any) publish numbers of how many people were born and died last week or last month. Such statistics are mostly made public with general numbers over the previous year. Also to interpreted changes properly you'd need a lot of background info, a warmer summer or a colder winter already can make big differences.

I love statistics and I like digging in numbers to come up with calculated conclusions, but the numbers you are asking are depending on so many factors that I would not even be interested in looking at them atm.
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