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  #61  
Old 26.02.2020, 19:41
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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I know I have read Zurizolt's opinion as - no matter what, as long as the child has the support and love of their parents, makes even the bad luck/difficult conditions better. Even the possible hardships here, that I as a single mom (as she is) know too well. Zuri, I got that this is what you wrote, not that kids/parents with difficult predicaments beyond parents' control don't deserve our empathy

Single parents can encounter ton of amazing, strong community and private support here. Maybe ZuriZ can start a thread for single parents here. <3
You once gave me red rep a few years ago, with the comment “don’t derail a thread”, or something similar. Have kept to it .

I don’t think that it needs a separate thread, but in the meantime my daughter is about to pass her masters with summa cum lauda .
Would have been happy with whatever she chose.

And the third part of my life takes a new path (still yet to establish which ).
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  #62  
Old 26.02.2020, 19:50
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

Yes, I understand - and this is why I mentionned it.

I never said not using helmets for x country skiing (not downhill, when they do) and using scooters is a good thing, nor jumping from rooves - just that it is how it is- at least in rural Switzerland.

On one of the many ski trips frommy UK schools, I took to Ace's part of the world (Portes du Soleil)- one Swiss ski instructor, who was a retired PE and French teacher, asked if I could go out for coffee with her after lessons, as she wanted to ask me about the kids. She was truly concerned that so many of our kids were overweight, had no sense of balance whatsoever, and didn't have the strength to get up if they fell- etc. She had never worked with such groups- she was not critical, but was trying to understand. I explained most were driven to the school gate and did very little physical activity and were never allowed to take risks of any kind. She said it was so sad- because none of them would be able to survive for a day in any emergency.

She argued that taking some risk, things like walking on a wall learning to balance, even if the risk was a fall and a bruise or minor injury- was essential to become safer in the long run. It was hard to disagree with her.
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  #63  
Old 26.02.2020, 20:24
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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You once gave me red rep a few years ago, with the comment “don’t derail a thread”, or something similar. Have kept to it .

I don’t think that it needs a separate thread, but in the meantime my daughter is about to pass her masters with summa cum lauda .
Would have been happy with whatever she chose.

And the third part of my life takes a new path (still yet to establish which ).
I don't negrep, I don't play that game. Must have been somebody else? Congrats to your kid.

I don't think helmets (or lack there of) define how good is to grow up here, but the truth is - kids make a lot of decisions on their own. Early. And since I grew up that way, it suits me here and raising my child here and in this spirit makes complete sense. Even when this place wasn't my choice.
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  #64  
Old 26.02.2020, 21:00
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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I don't negrep, I don't play that game. Must have been somebody else? Congrats to your kid.

I don't think helmets (or lack there of) define how good is to grow up here, but the truth is - kids make a lot of decisions on their own. Early. And since I grew up that way, it suits me here and raising my child here and in this spirit makes complete sense. Even when this place wasn't my choice.
I’m sorry, meant my comment fondly. You and a few others really helped give me the strength over the past years to continue here. Sometimes it means not being a ‘Waschlappe’, and I had to learn that.

You’ve kindda provided something in my thoughts when getting my life.
Fit, motherhood, single at that.

I could just wish, and my wish came true ...
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  #65  
Old 26.02.2020, 21:12
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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Trust is fine but I like the fact that folk who work with kids in the UK need a DBS check. Made me very uneasy in CH.
This. Times have changed a lot since we grew up. I also went to school alone or in a group, made my own decisions etc. But knowing what I know now, I don't think safety measures are too much.

That being said, yes, Switzerland is still an idillic place from certain points of view. I hope it stays that way. Still, kids here are rather supervised, much more than I was (for instance), because most moms of younger children don't work outside the home. At least in our circles - neighbours, kids' friends etc. Or we work part-time/from home, which still means lots of parental control, help with homework, driving to and from activities etc.

Last edited by greenmount; 26.02.2020 at 21:26.
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  #66  
Old 26.02.2020, 22:02
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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This. Times have changed a lot since we grew up. I also went to school alone or in a group, made my own decisions etc. But knowing what I know now, I don't think safety measures are too much.

That being said, yes, Switzerland is still an idillic place from certain points of view. I hope it stays that way. Still, kids here are rather supervised, much more than I was (for instance), because most moms of younger children don't work outside the home. At least in our circles - neighbours, kids' friends etc. Or we work part-time/from home, which still means lots of parental control, help with homework, driving to and from activities etc.
Then we certainly come from different circles. When I landed here decades ago, this was true. But luckily even Swiss women are starting to catch-on since quite a while...
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Old 26.02.2020, 22:56
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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Then we certainly come from different circles. When I landed here decades ago, this was true. But luckily even Swiss women are starting to catch-on since quite a while...
Yes, it depends on a lot of factors and not everyone is the same, there are different stories and people. But from what I noticed working part-time or totally interrupting work till kids go to school or even later is still done by lots of women here. In the beginning I thought I'm in a time warp but now I understand the system and mentalities much better. There are definitely downsides, but also positive aspects. I don't see why Switzerland should be like other countries. Some aspects are worth adopting/importing, a lot of others - not.
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  #68  
Old 27.02.2020, 10:52
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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I wondered about this myself, there seems to be absolutely nothing in this country he likes, and life in Australia should be nice with a Swiss Pension (I recall O worked here for decades).

A nice house in the middle of nowhere, no foreigners, no full trams, no public toilets, no cars just nothing to get disturbed about just perfect for him.
Yes. No doubt cheaper. But with 72 years of age and 26 years here one thinks twice about such moves
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  #69  
Old 27.02.2020, 14:12
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

Made the move here after retirement and after a lot longer in the UK ...


So why not? But perhaps the worry is that you go back and find the place has changed so much- and you suddenly realise just how much you actually do love Switzerland. Pink glasses and all that. For your sake then- how about looking and enjoying all the positive things here - and enjoy them. Or pluck up the courage and go back. Misery is not an option as far as I am concerned.

Last edited by Odile; 27.02.2020 at 14:25.
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  #70  
Old 27.02.2020, 14:28
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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Yes. No doubt cheaper. But with 72 years of age and 26 years here one thinks twice about such moves
Would never in a million years thought that you were 72!
Hut ab!
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  #71  
Old 27.02.2020, 15:17
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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I've not followed all the nuances of this thread, but was anyone seriously suggesting that CH is _not_ a good place to raise your kids? Any examples of folks who would think another country would be better?
Well, I didn't suggest that CH is not a good place to raise my kids. And I wouldn't say that. But I do think that Australia offers an extraordinary environment for children -- as always, it depends where (I wouldn't particularly like my kids to adopt the Darwin approach to life, nor Alice Springs), but on the whole, it's one hell of a place to grow up. Incredibly, I agree with omtatsat on this.

I suspect that most people have a soft spot for the place they grew up in, and can easily see the benefits offered by that place. That said, I think Switzerland (and again, there is no one "Switzerland", there are several -- German-, Italian, Rumantsch-speaking, all three, French +/- German-speaking, mountains, cosmopolitan, etc.) is generally a great place for kids and probably much easier for them than for many of their parents, especially expats/immigrants.
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  #72  
Old 27.02.2020, 16:56
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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Made the move here after retirement and after a lot longer in the UK ...

So why not? But perhaps the worry is that you go back and find the place has changed so much- and you suddenly realise just how much you actually do love Switzerland. Pink glasses and all that. For your sake then- how about looking and enjoying all the positive things here - and enjoy them. Or pluck up the courage and go back. Misery is not an option as far as I am concerned.
Why not? Besides what one likes about Switzerland or another country, and issues of permits/citizenships, one of the central reasons not to go, or to go, can be finances.

Some leave Switzerland because their retirement income will go so much further in a cheaper country. Friends of mine are now in the process of leaving Switzerland to return to Kosovo, for this reason, and they're definitely going to be much better off there.

For others, the income from their years of employment in Switzerland would not be suffient were they to be domiciled outside of Switzerland. For example, another friend whose regular income consists only of his AHV pension (no 2nd piller/pension plan) stays in Switzerland because here he's eligible for top-up benefits (Ergänzungsleistungen). With those, he can get by as long as he is very, very careful.

This is a paradox: While in Switzerland his income comprises those two components. If he could have them both abroad, he'd have no further financial worries. However, since Ergänzungsleistungen are domicile-based, if he left Switzerland he would lose those, and in his country of origin trying to live on his AHV alone would be bitter.

How many options we have and how much leeway there is to muster courage both depend, to a large degree, on the available finances.
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  #73  
Old 27.02.2020, 17:10
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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Made the move here after retirement and after a lot longer in the UK ...


So why not? But perhaps the worry is that you go back and find the place has changed so much- and you suddenly realise just how much you actually do love Switzerland. Pink glasses and all that. For your sake then- how about looking and enjoying all the positive things here - and enjoy them. Or pluck up the courage and go back. Misery is not an option as far as I am concerned.
Ideally, after retirement one should be able to afford living in both countries - country of origin and CH.


@Omtatsat

Why not a longer vacation in Australia and see how it goes?
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Old 27.02.2020, 19:53
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

My kids were both born here, for the oldest going on 16, she loves Switzerland. I think my son does too, he is little younger. She has just got a Swiss passport too, we will apply for one for him in a few years time.

What is hard is that I am not sure I want to retire here ultimately, I want to return to the UK. But what of the kids, they want to remain here.

Its not something that I thought about when I came here 20 years ago, but it is something that I think about now.
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  #75  
Old 27.02.2020, 19:58
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

There's no ice cream trucks come summer.
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  #76  
Old 27.02.2020, 20:33
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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My kids were both born here, for the oldest going on 16, she loves Switzerland. I think my son does too, he is little younger. She has just got a Swiss passport too, we will apply for one for him in a few years time.

What is hard is that I am not sure I want to retire here ultimately, I want to return to the UK. But what of the kids, they want to remain here.

Its not something that I thought about when I came here 20 years ago, but it is something that I think about now.
If you can, make sure that you, too, get Swiss citizenship. Life changes, and it is always a good idea for all family members to be allowed to live in the same country, if they want or need to. Keep as many options open, for each of you, as possible.

Ten years from now your daughter or son may need you to live where she/he is, as an active grandparent.

Thirty or forty years from now you may need care and it would probably be so much easier for your children to help with this if you and they could be in the same country.
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  #77  
Old 27.02.2020, 20:40
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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If you can, make sure that you, too, get Swiss citizenship. Life changes, and it is always a good idea for all family members to be allowed to live in the same country, if they want or need to. Keep as many options open, for each of you, as possible.

Ten years from now your daughter or son may need you to live where she/he is, as an active grandparent.
That's one good reason to move abroad then!

Have you seen the number of absolutely exhausted grand-parents here who should be enjoying their twilight years but spend five days a week looking after young children so the children's parents can avoid paying for childcare.
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Old 27.02.2020, 21:19
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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That's one good reason to move abroad then!

Have you seen the number of absolutely exhausted grand-parents here who should be enjoying their twilight years but spend five days a week looking after young children so the children's parents can avoid paying for childcare.
You might find that they're not so self-centered and they actually enjoy helping their children and spending time with their grandchildren.
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Old 27.02.2020, 21:21
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

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That's one good reason to move abroad then!

Have you seen the number of absolutely exhausted grand-parents here who should be enjoying their twilight years but spend five days a week looking after young children so the children's parents can avoid paying for childcare.
Of course, no-one should be cooerced into grandparenting.

I was thinking more of a case I knew where the adult daughter was living in one country, and her parents in another. Everyone was fine with that.

Then the daughter's school-going son had a serious accident, and the amount of long-term care needed was simply not covered by any insurance. She was struggling to take care of her son, and juggle all her other responsibilities. Her parents were very concerned about her health and strength, and their grandson.

However, it ended up being heartbreaking because - even though the (grand)parents were willing to help care for the injured child - they weren't able to obtain the necessary visas and permits. And for the same reasons in reverse, the adult daughter and her son couldn't move to where the (grand)parents lived.
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Old 27.02.2020, 21:23
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Re: Raising your child in Switzerland. Hindsight and experience...

''Why not? Besides what one likes about Switzerland or another country, and issues of permits/citizenships, one of the central reasons not to go, or to go, can be finances. ''

my comment was to omtatsat- who would go back to Australia where things are generally much cheaper. After 38 years working here, he would have a good pension which would go much further.

As grandparents - our daughters fully agree it is not our job to look after our granchildren day in, day out. We absolutely love them coming to stay, and we did go over many times to look after them in the UK. In an emergency, my daughter knows she could phone at 4am, and I would drive to Geneva and be on the earliest flight and to theirs by 10am. Of course- should circumstances change, we would go back and be there 100%. We actually see a lot more of our daughters and grandchildren because we live abroad- somehow it focuses the mind and make us all aware. We spend a lot of time together, here, at theirs, or meet up for hols in other locations.

If someone is very unhappy with where they live, like omtatsat- why suffer and be miserable. Why not go back for a few months and see what it feels like- and take those pink tinted glasses off.
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