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Old 29.03.2020, 09:16
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

@doropfiz
Tell the grandson to stop going, with a very clear explanation of what could happen to his grandpa if he does keep visiting
Contact Pro Senectute or other private care companies for house help. It’s partially paid for by health insurance (if I remember correctly) and the grandpa could find one dedicated house carer who most probably not socializing like the grandson.
Keep in mind that the grandson might be feeling stressed by the responsibility of caring for his grandpa on his own.

@roegner, I’m so sorry, that’s just awful 😳
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  #62  
Old 29.03.2020, 09:37
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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The nurse is asking: What Would You Do? As the grandfather (patient)? As the nurse? If the grandson is allowed to come by, then everyone’s potentially at risk. But the patient currently has no other help in the home, and without the grandson's housework, things will get icky.
This assumes that other outside housekeeping help is not available:

Is the grandson at least willing to take additional hygiene precautions when he comes into his grandfather's home?

As an example, my brother is checking up on and helping my 89 year old mother back in the US. (And I thank doG for his help every day...) Although my brother is himself isolating, this is the protocol he follows when he goes to Mom's house each day:

Take off shoes before entering, immediately shower then change into clothing that remains at the house, and of course follow hand washing and disinfecting protocol. He wears rubber gloves at the house, and wears a face mask when physical contact is necessary. (Because Mom is mostly deaf and relies on lip reading he does not wear a face mask at other times. Mom needs to be able to communicate.) He strictly maintains 2 meter distance at all other times. As he leaves, he washes the clothes he wore while visiting.

For her part, Mom has closed up most of the rooms in the house and is living in only about 3 rooms so there isn't much to tidy up, she does not go into the part of the house where my brother showers and changes on entry, limiting exposure. The visits are mostly about checking up on Mom.

Would the nurse be able to draw up visiting hygiene protocol that she would feel provided relative safety if it is strictly followed, and that the grandson would agree to practice?

(I know that face masks are all but impossible to find, but when in contact with his grandfather a home made mask would be better than nothing.)

---

If the grandson can't follow enhanced hygiene protocol, is there a possibility of other outside help?

For instance, the ZH Spitex page recommends this firm:
https://senioren-unterhaltsreinigung...altsreinigung/

There is nothing on their site referencing closure due to Coronavirus, so it might be worthwhile contacting them to see if they are still working and if there is any availability. If the company specialises in cleaning for seniors I would hope that they have enhanced safety measures in place. I don't know anything about this company, though, I just followed links.

If outside help could be found even if only once every two weeks that would be better than nothing.

I understand that some regular cleaning companies are still working provided the house is empty when the cleaners come or that family members remain sequestered away from the crew while they are working. These companies are of course taking extra precautions.

---

I hope a solution can be found - and that some sense can be knocked into the grandson. For his own sake as well.

Last edited by meloncollie; 29.03.2020 at 09:51.
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  #63  
Old 29.03.2020, 10:06
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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We have just been ordered by our CEO to work 50% in the office. We had been almost all working from home and that works just fine, but as the person apparently doesn´t trust us.....

In addition to that, one of the assistants went off sick, but nobody can tell if that is Covid19 as she hasn´t been tested (yet). So she might have infected some others, worst case, who could easily now spread this.....
If your CEO is that stupid, probably time to start looking for another job.
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Old 29.03.2020, 10:10
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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If your CEO is that stupid, probably time to start looking for another job.
Doing that already for some time, not easy working in a niche area and being over 50......
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  #65  
Old 30.03.2020, 16:43
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

Loans for small businesses

This is the website for small and medium businesses which need to apply for government-guaranteed credit, to give them the necessary liquidity to prevent going down. Sole traders may also make use of this. This is a cooperative system developed by government departments and banks.

https://covid19.easygov.swiss/ (in German, French, Italian)
One can no longer simply download the pdfs. It is now a guided process. The aim is to prevent administrative overload and increase efficiency, so that applications which are incomplete are stopped until all the correct documentation is brought.

There is also an easygov hotline at https://helpcenter.easygov.swiss/hc/de (in German, French, Italian) with some AI, so not just FAQs.

About one-third of the funds designated, by the Federal Council, to this end, have already been allocated.

It is, however, still the case that this is open only to some categories of of sole traders, and not to those whose income is diminished indirectly. A "direct" influence is, say, a hairdresser, as she has been ordered, by law, to keep her salon shut. An "indirect" influence is, say, a cleaner, whose clients are asking her not to come in, or an IT contractor whose clients have frozen their project budgets until there is some clarity about Corona. The Federal Council is aware of the gaps, and is discussing possibilities to assist those who are suffering such losses, too.

Last edited by doropfiz; 30.03.2020 at 17:06.
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  #66  
Old 02.04.2020, 02:35
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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@doropfiz
Tell the grandson to stop going, with a very clear explanation of what could happen to his grandpa if he does keep visiting
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I hope a solution can be found - and that some sense can be knocked into the grandson. For his own sake as well.
Thank you, Sky and meloncollie.

Well, at first all the nurses stopped coming at all, on account of the infection risk, through the grandson to the grandfather. My nurse friend and I completley understand why they did that, since there are just too many people involved, as each nurses does many house-calls all day long, though understandably, it was quite a blow for grandpa, so he's angry with grandson for having been so foolish and putting himself, then grandpa, then the nursing team and all of their other patients at risk. So now there's an isolation period (some say 10 days, some say 14, not sure which they're going to apply) during which poor grandpa is not doing well at all. But at least, she tells me, they've arranged rudimentary subsitute help for grandpa.

It's like watching a soap. There's a new problem with the grandson. He has an employer who has tried in vain to explain to him the principles of social distancing and flattening the curve, but he's not having any of it, and says he'll die if he doesn't have physical contact and so he's going ahead, doing whatever he needs and wants.

The employer - whose business is not shut down and who has work for the employee - says he has to suspend him, for bringing (and continuing to bring) the other work colleagues into danger with his risky behaviour. But although the grandson is foolish in this, the nurse says he's a really kind, nice man, and both the grandpa and the employer want to have him back once the Coronoa crisis is over.

Could anyone hazard a guess at the grandson's legal right, if any, to an income?

Ordinarily, if the employer puts someone on garden leave (is that what this would be?) then the employer pays. However, this employee is behaving in a way that brings the employer and colleagues into danger, and it is only because of his failure to take due care that the employer wants him to stay away.

The nurse says that grandpa, although ill, is bright as a button, and is worred that his grandson is now going to get into financial difficulties, and would like to know the facts. Does anyone know which laws apply in this situation, please?

Last edited by doropfiz; 02.04.2020 at 02:55.
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  #67  
Old 02.04.2020, 03:21
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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Good luck OP, take good care!

I commute on the crowded Bern - Zürich route by train everyday. The government is recommending not to commute if possible & outside rush hour if you have to.

https://m.20min.ch/schweiz/news/stor...ecken-28956423

My work is still business as usual. I am getting over the flu and corona honestly scares me since I have chronic asthma. Is there anything I could do here? I don’t have a license to commute by car...I can do my entire job from home and being in the office isn’t necessary.

Can a doctor write a note for mandatory working from home?
The instructions to employers at www.bag.admin.ch are clear in such cases. Your doctor can issue a certificate stating that you are in the vulnerable category for corona health risk. You give to you employer and they are obliged to allow you to work from home, and if that is not possible, you can isolate with a normal payment of loan. It is all there, clear, in black and white.

I am adding the quotation, they say "must" meaning this is more than a recommendation.
"Employers must protect people at high risk
People at high risk should work from home. If that is not possible, they are to be placed on leave by their employers, but will continue to be paid by their employer. Details can be found in the relevant section on the page on federal government measures."

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...eitswelt.html#

Last edited by isascott; 02.04.2020 at 03:24. Reason: direct link to the info
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  #68  
Old 02.04.2020, 09:50
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

Thanks so much. I had spoken with my doctor and she kindly offered to write me off if needed.

In the meantime, my entire office has been ordered to work from home until 19 April. I am very lucky and hope they continue to be understanding. Hoping the same for all of you!
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  #69  
Old 02.04.2020, 10:29
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

My employer just informed us that - in addition to already come to work 50% of the time - they expect us to be fully back by April 14.


It seems to me they really want to see people drop dead first........
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Old 02.04.2020, 10:43
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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My employer just informed us that - in addition to already come to work 50% of the time - they expect us to be fully back by April 14.


It seems to me they really want to see people drop dead first........
So expectations versus expirations?
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Old 06.04.2020, 16:48
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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Loans for small businesses

This is the website for small and medium businesses which need to apply for government-guaranteed credit, to give them the necessary liquidity to prevent going down. Sole traders may also make use of this. This is a cooperative system developed by government departments and banks.

https://covid19.easygov.swiss/ (in German, French, Italian)
One can no longer simply download the pdfs. It is now a guided process. The aim is to prevent administrative overload and increase efficiency, so that applications which are incomplete are stopped until all the correct documentation is brought.

There is also an easygov hotline at https://helpcenter.easygov.swiss/hc/de (in German, French, Italian) with some AI, so not just FAQs.

About one-third of the funds designated, by the Federal Council, to this end, have already been allocated.
To add to the above post, Financial Times writes today that the Swiss small business bank loan program is working well at the below link (reprinted at Swissinfo.ch). The article includes an outline of this program as follows:

"The Swiss scheme has two elements. Under the first, businesses can apply for an immediate loan, worth up to 10% of their annual revenue, capped at CHF500,000. The loan is interest free and provided by Swiss banks, which are underwritten with a full credit guarantee on the amount by the Swiss government. A simple declaration is all that is needed.

The second facility lends up to CHF20 million, also provided by the banking system. Bern guarantees 85 per cent of the loan, charged at 0.5% interest. The bank assumes risk of the last 15 per cent, charged at a competitive rate. "

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/covid-1...esses/45670144

The Coronavirus crisis loan application can be completed at this link (English):

https://www.easygov.swiss/easygov/#/en/landing/covid
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  #72  
Old 07.04.2020, 12:02
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

Update on the company I work for.......


I have a certificate from my doctor that I am in the high risk group. Company still tells me that they will decide tomorrow if I can work full time from home. Despite having said earlier that high risk groups should be allowed to do so.


Yes, time for a new job and depending on the outcome tomorrow, time to inform some other people/authorities.


It seems that some companies are definitely not interested in the wellfare/health of their employees.......
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Old 08.04.2020, 04:39
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Re: Corona virus - difficult employer situation

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Update on the company I work for.......


I have a certificate from my doctor that I am in the high risk group. Company still tells me that they will decide tomorrow if I can work full time from home. Despite having said earlier that high risk groups should be allowed to do so.


Yes, time for a new job and depending on the outcome tomorrow, time to inform some other people/authorities.


It seems that some companies are definitely not interested in the wellfare/health of their employees.......
If I were you I would not be going in and when questioned just refer them to their earlier email regarding high risk employees, which I understand is in any case a legal obligation. What are they going to do? Fire you?
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