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  #181  
Old 04.04.2020, 14:26
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Re: Face Masks

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Yes, that’s ‚old news’. Are we talking about the same case?:
The Switzerland destined shipment, blocked in Germany was the case bowlie was talking about.

Please, re-read and ponder about what bowlie as actually written. Specially the "A simple mistake [by a German port which can be resolved by a simple phone call] and piracy [what the US is currently doing] are a little different."
After pondering: Take some deep breaths, drink a tea, maybe go to the loo, than come back to write your reply. Take another cup of tea and refine you reply before you hit "Submit Reply". That will take at least 30 minutes.

PS: Enjoy your tea.
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  #182  
Old 04.04.2020, 14:28
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Re: Face Masks

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Yes, that’s ‚old news’. Are we talking about the same case?
No.
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  #183  
Old 04.04.2020, 15:28
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Re: Face Masks

ZurriRolit. Why did you groan aSwissInTheUS?
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  #184  
Old 04.04.2020, 15:30
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Re: Face Masks

Mods, perhaps one could delete posts 163 onwards.
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  #185  
Old 04.04.2020, 15:43
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Re: Face Masks

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ZurriRolit. Why did you groan aSwissInTheUS?
Because I don‘t drink tea, and the post was uninformed. Also mentioned in my red blobs that I‘ve respected their posts until now.
Have no idea why they would accuse me of drinking tea?
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  #186  
Old 04.04.2020, 17:13
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Re: Face Masks

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Can anyone tell me of anywhere in Switzerland where one can actually buy masks? Not the best ones, but ones you can use when shopping and then dispose of?

And now that Trump has decided to seize other countries masks from third countries, I can't see the situation has been improved. Bar Steward.

We've been thinking of making our own, but some of the stuff needed (elastic cords, etc.) can't be found in the shops that are open. Any hints here?
It's true -- thin elastic has become very difficult to find in the past few weeks (in the US as well). I had to order some on ebay.co.uk last week because I couldn't find any here in CH, and it arrived today. The price is very reasonable, and the shipping was quite fast. It looks like they still have some available (I use 1.5 or 2.0 mm). I'll put the link here in case it's of use to anyone else.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Round-Nyl...72.m2749.l2649

If you're making a mask that is intended to be washed and re-used, I've found that 90cm shoelaces, sewn along each side of the mask, also works well and holds up well in the wash.
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  #187  
Old 04.04.2020, 19:57
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Re: Face Masks

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We've been thinking of making our own, but some of the stuff needed (elastic cords, etc.) can't be found in the shops that are open. Any hints here?
Here's an easy instructional video about how to make elastic-ish cord out of strips cut from a T-shirt.
https://youtu.be/oqyhNDSXEfg

At first, she teaches a clever way to lay out and cut a T-shirt, so as to generate a long, continuous strip. Very nice, and worth watching, to understand the concept. However, for the specific purpose of masks, you'd only need 20 to 40cm (depending on your preference) per tie.

From 5:30, she explains how to stretch and tug the cut strips, so that they curl into the elastic-ish cord.
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  #188  
Old 04.04.2020, 23:35
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Re: Face Masks

Facemasks in history - a jovial lookback at the dreaded black spots scare of the 18th century !!

Yes its time the thread looked back in history to see how men and women were protecting themselves
in the past and how facemasks designed to hide that scourge of the 17th & 18th Century, namely
'the dreaded black face spot' became the height of fashion, to be flaunted at the great masked balls
of the 18th century.

Here we see a glamourous young couple about to venture out into high society with facemasks
already postitioned to cover all black spot eventualities.




Here's another young couple with child about to take their carriage sporting their him,
her and infant facemasks at the height of the black spot paranoia.





A lavish masked ball of the 18th Century when facemasks became the height of fashion, sophistication
and elegance at the Great Masked Balls of the 18th Century.





Finally people went too far over the black spot paranoia and a backlash against facemasks started,
when many people decided that 'if you've got it flaunt it !! and so the beauty spots of the late 18th century
began.
So much so that many people were adding black spots to their faces and having them applied artificially to
become the tattoos of the late 18th century.


__________________
Surely the time has come for Boris to 'circle the wagons' for a bit of herd immunity ?

Last edited by John William; 04.04.2020 at 23:59.
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  #189  
Old 05.04.2020, 01:53
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Re: Face Masks

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Yes, that’s ‚old news’. Are we talking about the same case?:

From the BBC today:

The US has been accused of redirecting 200,000 Germany-bound masks for its own use, in a move condemned as "modern piracy".
The local government in Berlin said the shipment of US-made masks was "confiscated" in Bangkok.
The FFP2 masks, which were ordered by Berlin's police force, did not reach their destination, it said.
Andreas Geisel, Berlin's interior minister, said the masks were presumably diverted to the US.
The US company that makes the masks, 3M, has been prohibited from exporting its medical products to other countries under a Korean-War-era law invoked by President Donald Trump.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52161995
The problem with Geisel's claim (the German media explicitly mention confiscation) is that the factory is located in China, where US laws mean nothing and where the US lack both power and authority to confiscate.

Certainly you remember Trump's alleged bid to buy an exclusive license for a Sars-Covid-19 vaccine that's being developed in Germany. It seems much more plausible that they did the same here, i.e. the US offered a better price so the order by the Berliner Polizei got thrown away by the Chinese factory. "Aus den Augen aus dem Sinn", case closed.
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  #190  
Old 05.04.2020, 02:30
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Re: Face Masks

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Here is the Catch-22: You do not know if you are healthy or already infected and contagious w/o symptoms. Sorry, but this sounds like in the late '80s early '90s when people said they only have unprotected sex with healthy, clean people. Yep you might have guessed right, they got AIDS , not HIV but full blown AIDS (and they died). Because guess what, seemingly healthy people can be contagious too.
This, yes, sadly.

The topic of masks came up yet again in yesterday's Swiss Federal Council's press conference 04.04.2020. My notes are very rough, and if anyone with better French than mine (that's easy to fulfil) cares to improve them, please do. Thank you.

https://youtu.be/oL-_1V1so3M
Swiss Federal Council, Press Conference 04.04.2020
Daniel Koch, Delegierter des BAG für COVID-19

A journalist asked about the plans to get people back to work, in a systematic way, and asked whether it might be considered that some could return to work if all the people there were required to wear masks.

From 28:04, Herr Koch replies.
The Federal Council is definitely working on a strategy for how people will start to leave their homes again, and we are talking about this a lot. Currently, we have not reached a conclusion but are communicating as we go along.

With regard to the specific question of whether one could imagine letting workers go to work under the condition that everyone there should wear a mask, I have to tell you [shaking his head] that “the measures” really are simple, and we keep saying them, for a long time now. Wearing a mask does not protect anyone wearing it. The masks protect mainly the others. And there are certainly many, many places of work in which a mask will not increase the security of the people there.

We need to keep evaluating each measure which might change, whether it might really be do-able, whether it would bring anything, and whether it is possible.

Even so, I’d like to say that public health does not comprise only of the epidemic, and fighting infection is for the health of the entire population, and so, certainly, we are very conscience of the fact that it is important that the economy keeps working, and we are very concerned that all the measures which could restrain the economy, or which could restrict personal freedom could have secondary negative effects.

It’s always a matter of finding an equilibrium between these, on one hand, and the fight against the epidemic on the other, so we are keeping an eye on the measures, because we don’t want that, because of the measures themselves, there will be more trouble than before, with fighting the virus.
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  #191  
Old 05.04.2020, 02:42
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Re: Face Masks

As I see it, Herr Koch’s statement
  1. Wearing a mask does not protect anyone wearing it.
  2. The masks protect mainly the others.
do not in any logical way lead to his
And there are certainly many, many places of work in which a mask will not increase the security of the people there.

If we turn this around:
  • If a measure that I could take (wearing a mask) would protect others, then my doing so will decrease the risk of others' infection and will thereby increase the security of others. And thereby, indirectly, mine, too.
  • If all the people in a space all took the measure that would protect others (wearing a mask), then the riks of infection for all the people would be decreaed and thereby the security of the people there will be - at least to some extent - increased.

I'd like to say again that I don't think that masks are a solution for everything, not at all. They are one good measure amongst several which, all taken together, and if done properly, can reduce the overall rate of infection. Of course, mask-wearing must be done properly. Just like hand-washing, too, should be done properly, or it could cause more harm than before (I've already seen someone's hands with open cracks...). And social distancing should be done properly.

To pick up what ASwissInTheUS wrote above, about HIV and AIDS: in the early years, a great deal of education was needed about when and how to use (and dispose of) condoms correctly, and what they do and don't protect against, and what else to look out for (e.g. blood contact). Similarly, what's needed now is education about how to use masks properly, so as not to cause more harm, but to really help (as one measure amongst others).

At least Herr Koch is finally admitting that, perhaps, there might at some stage in the future be a change in his views on masks.
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  #192  
Old 05.04.2020, 11:37
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Re: Face Masks

If your job requires that you talk to people - via phone or behind something like a plexiglass screen, a mask is likely more of a hindrance. The more you talk, the more wet you’re mask becomes, rendering it useless.

I believe, that as people return to work, masks will be useful for being in transit, but not so useful in many customer facing circumstances.

One of my friends in the US posted Facebook video of a guy wearing a mask, walking through a store like target. He pulled the mask down several times to sniff the fragrance of something or to talk to his companion. There’s definitely a learning curve.
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  #193  
Old 05.04.2020, 19:19
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Re: Face Masks

Some interesting visuals of microdroplets and mask wearing:



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  #194  
Old 15.04.2020, 21:25
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Re: Face Masks

German chancellor Angela Merkel now strongly recommends to wear an "every day mask" (Alltagsmasken), which means a cloth mask, while shopping and using public transport.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/...-16726909.html
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  #195  
Old 16.04.2020, 08:22
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Re: Face Masks

Bus she isn’t wearing a mask in those photos.

But I’m still looking for a place to get some masks, even the ‘every day mask’!
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  #196  
Old 16.04.2020, 09:47
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Re: Face Masks

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Bus she isn’t wearing a mask in those photos.

But I’m still looking for a place to get some masks, even the ‘every day mask’!
She is neither shopping nor using the public transport.

For everything homemade, specially sewing related, etsy is your friend: https://www.etsy.com/search?q=gesichtsmaske
But I am sure that there are also helpful people on EF which can provide you with one.
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  #197  
Old 16.04.2020, 10:28
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Re: Face Masks

I'd happily pay a reasonable price for six of them. Three for me and three for the Mrs.
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  #198  
Old 16.04.2020, 15:54
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Re: Face Masks

I have the impression from recent nightly news reports that Switzerland is working on manufacturing millions (?) of masks and that's part of why the harsh restrictions are in place for another week, to give enough time to make enough masks. The machine to make them was delayed in the import process.

The idea is apparently for businesses to be able to offer masks everywhere, such as at your hair salon, and to even have enough to send to residents or something. Watch your mailbox for iodine pills and masks.
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  #199  
Old 16.04.2020, 15:58
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Re: Face Masks

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I'd happily pay a reasonable price for six of them. Three for me and three for the Mrs.
She's also reading this thread, isn't she.
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I have the impression from recent nightly news reports that Switzerland is working on manufacturing millions (?) of masks and that's part of why the harsh restrictions are in place for another week, to give enough time to make enough masks. The machine to make them was delayed in the import process.

The idea is apparently for businesses to be able to offer masks everywhere, such as at your hair salon, and to even have enough to send to residents or something. Watch your mailbox for iodine pills and masks.
The article I've read was pertaining to the very limited capacity producers in Switzerland are able to produce. I'm not quite sure that they're able to meet the x million masks for the time needed. I'll have to check my browsing history for the link.
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  #200  
Old 16.04.2020, 16:31
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Re: Face Masks

I've never worn a mask before. If I sneeze into it, don't all those moist, sticky particles in the mask make it uncomfortable to breathe? Serious question...
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