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Old 03.05.2020, 20:04
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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Were it not for his desired secrecy he could write a letter c/o the ex-wife's attorney or c/o the bank he pays the financial support to. He could even petition the court to obtain a report on how the daughter is doing. Seems he harbours a lot of bitterness against the ex-wife and his unwillingness to go through proper channel is to me a huge red flag
After the sexual abuse allegations I understand his cautiousness. They're impossible to defend against and something always sticks. Don't they say that where there's smoke there's fire?

Men are expected to stand up against dirt hurled at them no matter what, after all they're man. And of course OP should also disregard that the bitch destroyed his economic existence.

A woman in a comparable position would get immediate sympathy, a man however is attacked immediately. People are so damn quick to judge and condemn.
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Old 03.05.2020, 20:08
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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After the sexual abuse allegations I understand his cautiousness. They're impossible to defend against and something always sticks.

Men are expected to stand up against dirt hurled at them no matter what, after all they're man. And of course OP should also disregard that the bitch destroyed his economic existence.

A woman in a comparable position would get immediate sympathy, a man however is attacked immediately. People are sooo quick to judge and condemn.

Be very careful in what you type as there is absolutely no mention that he was accused of sexual abuse. In his word he was accused of neglect and the suggestion of child abuse. I certainly did not imply that to be sexual. We know neither of these people and no idea whether his wife really made accusations against him to the authorities as he claims. He does say that when he went to court that no abuse of any kind was mentioned only that the wife wanted him to use his visitation rights
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  #23  
Old 03.05.2020, 21:06
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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He lost his visitation rights by giving them up voluntarily.

One of the meanings of lose is "cease to have". How that comes about is irrelevant.
I know you are always a tad desperate to look right on the interwebs, but in this case it really does matter how he lost those rights, given the very specific context of the thread, not to mention how you charged in doing the 'white knight' routine and implying that he wasn't at fault or in control of it.

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After the sexual abuse allegations I understand his cautiousness. They're impossible to defend against and something always sticks. Don't they say that where there's smoke there's fire?

Men are expected to stand up against dirt hurled at them no matter what, after all they're man. And of course OP should also disregard that the bitch destroyed his economic existence.

A woman in a comparable position would get immediate sympathy, a man however is attacked immediately. People are so damn quick to judge and condemn.
Hmm, are you by any chance divorced, Urs? I detect much bitterness and resentment in that post. Also, as Mr. Dog said the nature of the abuse was not mentioned.
  #24  
Old 03.05.2020, 22:40
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

I agree that you should hire a lawyer to...
1. Establish if it is legal to contact your daughter.
2. If it is legal, the lawyer should hire a PI to find your daughter.
3. The lawyer (and PI) should inform your daughter:
- that you are interested in making contact, but that you respect your daughter's wishes and will leave her alone if she requests.
- that the Lawyer and PI will not give you your daughter's contact info, unless she approves).
- that your daughter may always contact you via the law office if she ever wants to make contact.
- that if she doesn't wish to contact you, you may reach out again (via an intermediary) when your daughter is 18 and an adult.
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  #25  
Old 04.05.2020, 02:35
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

Dear all at EF,

Iíd like to say thank you for all your observations, feedback, comments and advices. To be clear and for the record, I was accused of child neglect and abuse. Even though, the allegations could have been more when I actually got inside the courtroom, you simply do not know until then. Itís the way itís done.

Everything that has been posted is valid, relevant and noted. I appreciate.

Thinking cap on now, but I take all on board and itís likely I will let sleeping dogs lie.

SS
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  #26  
Old 04.05.2020, 08:39
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

OP if your only reason for wanting to locate her is that you are truly concerned that she might not be safe and well then take whatever proper steps necessary to find that out. That is your duty as a father.

You mention school in UK, your affair and your frequent global travels thus making you a somewhat distant father figure not a much missed daily presence in her life at the time of the separation? Did you have a close bond with her prior to the separation?

You last saw her when she visited you in July 2016 after which she alleged you didn't look after her properly and your ex wife promptly accused you of neglect. In making amends to your child that visit needs to be addressed. Was the woman you had the affair with by any chance present during that visit? Nothing more likely to anger a mother than having the other woman look after her child and very common for the child to be resentful of the intruder.

Even without visitation what stopped you asking the court for ongoing contact such as monthly phone calls, cards and presents at birthday and Christmas, the requirement for the ex to send you periodic updates in return for relinquishing visitation. If you two had once had a close bond then the missing cards on special occasions would have been conspicuous and painful for her

You have let four years slip away and that is sad for your daughter. Put yourself in her place and ask yourself what is in her best interests both in the short and long term. She will have lived with the hurt of knowing that you were prepared to never see her again. That is dreadful for any child.

Seems to me that you have two choices. Let sleeping dogs lie and accept that you have written her out of your life and you no longer have a daughter in anything but name and biology. Alternatively, write a letter via official channels expressing your remorse and love for her and make some kind of peace with the mother so that you can at least send cards and gifts. Given that they seem to be in hiding, such cards can be sent via her attorney. Ask yourself which option given all the facts (which only you have) is better not for you but for her.

Last edited by Mr Dog; 04.05.2020 at 10:31.
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  #27  
Old 04.05.2020, 08:52
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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Dear all at EF,

I’d like to say thank you for all your observations, feedback, comments and advices. To be clear and for the record, I was accused of child neglect and abuse. Even though, the allegations could have been more when I actually got inside the courtroom, you simply do not know until then. It’s the way it’s done.

Everything that has been posted is valid, relevant and noted. I appreciate.

Thinking cap on now, but I take all on board and it’s likely I will let sleeping dogs lie.

SS
Once again: if the allegations were false why would you care if they were more in the courtroom? That is the part that I am really struggling with, as if someone made false allegations of abuse against me I would in my incandescent outrage throw the legal book at them and do my best to disprove it no matter the financial cost (in the end it's less money to go to your ex too, right?). By capitulating for those 'spurious' reasons without even challenging them you then, whether intentionally or not, gave some credence to the accusations. In addition to you apparently not trying to make reparations or keep in contact with your daughter during the last few years, they also appear to have really gone to some effort to make sure that you cannot easily find them. This will really make things tough if they are going to stonewall you, but you will just have to persevere and hope things change over time.

Anyway, whatever the true story is I wish you the best going about it by official channels.

Last edited by Chuff; 04.05.2020 at 09:05.
  #28  
Old 04.05.2020, 09:20
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

Even without visitation / custody rights a parent is entitled to contact with their child (and vice versa) according to Art. 273 Swiss Civil Code.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a273

Presumably, the child protection agency (KESB) at the last known place of residence could assist.
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  #29  
Old 04.05.2020, 09:29
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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Once again: if the allegations were false why would you care if they were more in the courtroom? That is the part that I am really struggling with.....
.

And that is the part I am struggling with as well. How the fear of what might be said was enough for a parent to accept potentially never seeing their child again.
  #30  
Old 04.05.2020, 10:46
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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Once again: if the allegations were false why would you care if they were more in the courtroom? That is the part that I am really struggling with, as if someone made false allegations of abuse against me I would in my incandescent outrage throw the legal book at them and do my best to disprove it no matter the financial cost (in the end it's less money to go to your ex too, right?). By capitulating for those 'spurious' reasons without even challenging them you then, whether intentionally or not, gave some credence to the accusations. In addition to you apparently not trying to make reparations or keep in contact with your daughter during the last few years, they also appear to have really gone to some effort to make sure that you cannot easily find them. This will really make things tough if they are going to stonewall you, but you will just have to persevere and hope things change over time..
I really donít know what doesnít add up because I have lived it.

You should try this experience someday, Chuff. By heavens, it will blow you off your feet.

Firstly agree a divorce settlement worth 500k, PLUS over 30% of your net salary moving forward, only to find that your ex then disputes owing you 50k in cash which is clear in the convention. None of your business what the 50k relates to.

Then ask your ex civilly about this 50k after she fails to pay it 4 months after the divorce has been ratified.

Shortly after, Chuff, have your child as visitation over the weekend, 1:1, at your place (whatever your place is).

Imagine if you can, but a few days after your child has gone, finding a summons from the JdP waiting for you at the Post Office containing allegations that you have neglected your child and and containing suggestions that you perhaps abused your child during this visit. And more, that this 50k is being kept by ex for future indemnities relating to the upbringing of your child.

Take that summons to your lawyer. He will ask you:Ē~ ďwere you alone?Ē and did you not have someone with you during the time of this visitation?ď. Then sit there, Chuff, whilst he explains the implication of that and how it applies to you. These allegations supposedly told by a child and put into writing by the mother. You will quickly grasp that throwing the rulebook at shedloads of cash at it will get you nowhere. Your lawyer will tell you that these allegations have been made by a child, that they are very serious and that the child will be interviewed by social services. He will indeed tell you more - namely that you have no right before the hearing to know what the child has said and that if, at the hearing, it transpires that there are ďmore serious allegationsď then there is a small but very realistic possibility that you will not be leaving the hearing, by your choice of transport, a free man.

See how that grabs your goat regarding being incandescent with rage and ready for a fight. Watch your bullishness turn to sheer fear and terror. Be prepared to be very, very frightened. EVEN IF YOU KNOW THAT YOU DID NOTHING OF THE KIND. Because you ainít got a leg to stand on. You, Sir, have been perfectly stitched up. You can get angry all you want. You were 1:1 with your child. Your childís word against yours.

Then, try waiting for 12 weeks and try keeping yourself sane meantime. Pray to the Gods every day until the hearing that there is nothing alleged that will deprive you of your liberty and in addition by default your job, your income, and most of the things you take for granted.

Itís not spurious sh*t, itís a court summons with very serious allegations in it, itís for real and itís coming your way. Be frightened. Or be incandescent with rage and bullish if you want, you can do naff all about it and rage gets you nowhere.

Meantime, listen to your lawyer Chuff. Let him explain to you that you must never again be 1:1 with with your child, without a third party present. He might also share that if you do and accusations happens again, you WILL VERY LIKELY lose your liberty. And if you cannot have a third party present (because you do not have a third party) for whatever reason, you cannot exercise your visitation rights. You are wide open. It might happen again then what? Iíll tell you what: Youíre f*^!+d. Well and truly.

Now, I asked the forum respectfully and kindly for advice and input, ALL of which has been gratefully and humbly received. But picking what I have already written apart and pouring scorn and doubt about it not making sense is total tosh. You ainít lived it and I have better things to do than give inane detail justifying my situation when you scoff at it. I know what I went through, I know what happened, I lived it for 4 long years and in the end, it broke me. In all senses of the word.

So, yeah. All of you, I really appreciate your inputs (even yours Chuff). But please donít assume everyone is a liar or telling half truths, trying to get something for nothing from the forum. For sure some are, me not. Iíve better things to do.

Courage ŗ tous.

SS
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  #31  
Old 04.05.2020, 11:12
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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And that is the part I am struggling with as well. How the fear of what might be said was enough for a parent to accept potentially never seeing their child again.
It's quite simple. Trivial even:

You can not defend yourself. Simply because it's impossible to prove a negative. It's impossible to prove that xyz never happened, and because you're a man accused by a woman you're suspicious even before the get-go.
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Old 04.05.2020, 11:34
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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It's quite simple. Trivial even:

You can not defend yourself. Simply because it's impossible to prove a negative. It's impossible to prove that xyz never happened, and because you're a man accused by a woman you're suspicious even before the get-go.

From the man who rushed to the wrong conclusion that OP had been accused of sexual abuse of his own daughter and posted that online for everyone who had not even thought of that to consider!

Apparently he was accused by a child, his own daughter. Yes, I will grant that the wife could have coerced her and put words in the daughter's mouth. However, from what OP says the child was away at school in UK. Private schools have excellent support and guidance councillors and she would have been interviewed by social workers trained to spot whether the child (who would have been around 12) was being manipulated by a parent. From what OP said, the child actually only alleged that he handed looked after her properly and not any abuse.

He says that when he went to court the reason given by the wife was that she wanted to force visitation times on him and not because of the accusations of abuse.

Your posts show a great deal of bias and bitterness so assume you are divorced. As I have said repeatedly, this man and his ex-wife are strangers to us all and we have no way of deciphering what is fact, what is fiction and what is convenient half truths.

At the end of the day, if he wants to start to rebuild any form of relationship with his child then the only way to do so is via official channels, not be secretly trying to find people who have apparently taken steps to ensure that he cannot trace them. At a distance contact is no risk to him especially if he retains copies of all that he sends and it is done via intermediaries. My sympathy in this mess is with the child

Last edited by Mr Dog; 04.05.2020 at 11:45.
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  #33  
Old 04.05.2020, 11:34
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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It's quite simple. Trivial even:

You can not defend yourself. Simply because it's impossible to prove a negative. It's impossible to prove that xyz never happened, and because you're a man accused by a woman you're suspicious even before the get-go.
Here here Sir.
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Old 04.05.2020, 11:44
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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From the man who rushed to the wrong conclusion that OP had been accused of sexual abuse of his own daughter and posted that online for everyone who had not even thought of that to consider!

Apparently he was accused by a child, his own daughter. Yes, I will grant that the wife could have coerced her and put words in the daughter's mouth. However, from what OP says the child was away at school in UK. Private schools have excellent support and guidance councillors and she would have been interviewed by social workers trained to spot whether the child (who would have been around 12) was being manipulated by a parent.
Fact: Child was interviewed by CH social services. Then went back to school in the UK Before the hearing.

And yes, I do agree after the feedback that I should follow official channels. But because Iíve already been repeatedly shafted by the judicial system I have no faith in it to put it mildly. The CH judicial system is made out by those in it to be fair, balanced, efficient, equitable and reasonable. If anyone really believes that then my real name is Mother Theresa.
  #35  
Old 04.05.2020, 12:49
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

OP. Would I be right in assuming that the visit with your daughter was a little strained? What do you think were her reasons for saying that you didn't treat her properly and perhaps neglected her.
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Old 04.05.2020, 13:32
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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OP. Would I be right in assuming that the visit with your daughter was a little strained? What do you think were her reasons for saying that you didn't treat her properly and perhaps neglected her.
Nope it was good, well I thought it was. We went out and did all kinds of CH activities like zipwires trampolines lunches and all that kind of stuffs. The relationship between me and my daughter Iíd describe as perfectly normal. I doted on her and she on me. Like most if not all Papaís and their girls, right?
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Old 04.05.2020, 13:43
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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Nope it was good, well I thought it was. We went out and did all kinds of CH activities like zipwires trampolines lunches and all that kind of stuffs. The relationship between me and my daughter Iíd describe as perfectly normal. I doted on her and she on me. Like most if not all Papaís and their girls, right?
Somehow that came across creepy.
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Old 04.05.2020, 13:44
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OP. What do you think were her reasons for saying that you didn't treat her properly and perhaps neglected her.
I had and still have the same question. Phoned her she would not pick up. Texted her she would not reply. So I have only my own assumptions, which as they are assumptions and not fact I Will not share even if they are likely correct.

Other facts are that after the court hearing she blocked me on social media. I have not seen her since that visit. We used to exchange cards at important times of the year nothing from her for the best part of 2 years now. Sheís not at her address anymore it seems.
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Old 04.05.2020, 13:47
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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Somehow that came across creepy.
Thank you. Perhaps you assume and/or suspect Iím some kind of bizarre very kind of you.
  #40  
Old 04.05.2020, 14:01
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Re: Advices asked for: trying to find......

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Thank you. Perhaps you assume and/or suspect I’m some kind of bizarre very kind of you.
That's just it. We don't know what kind of person you really are. Your story may be your version of the truth or it may be a tall tale used to help you find ways to contact your daughter again, which somebody is clearly trying to stop you from.

We just don't know what the truth is so if I'm saying your post sounded creepy, it's because some motherly instinct raised an alarm at reading your words.

Last edited by olygirl; 04.05.2020 at 14:58.
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