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Old 28.05.2020, 00:14
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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Why the ventilation?
Did you check the floor plan (figure 2)?

The majority of the infected on floor 11 worked in the same big office with maybe 20-30cm space to the left and right. Only 5 who got infected didn't work in that one large office, but the women from the large office had to pass through their office to get to the women's toilet.
Do you think they had 15 minutes at 2m in order to get to the toilet? This app would have failed the scenario.
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  #62  
Old 28.05.2020, 00:15
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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As to Italy and Spain, well not to state the obvious but their health care systems (not the best compared to Switzerland or the US) were overwhelmed. The Swiss and the US health care systems managed well.
That has nothing to do with the reaction of the population.
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And with the roaming issue, I live in central Zurich and I can tell you very few wear masks and most are out and about as if this virus never occurred. And yet...no spike! Why?
Are you wearing a masks in public? I didn't think so.

As for out and about, that's nonsense. Maybe a few hotspots, but most of it is basically deserted.
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  #63  
Old 28.05.2020, 00:47
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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Do you think they had 15 minutes at 2m in order to get to the toilet? This app would have failed the scenario.
The app is definitely not perfect. It's work in progress, and it's meant to be a supplement to manual tracing.

The question is if such a case is likely around here. I've never seen people with that little space in the office, and now with Covid-19 I would think it's to be avoided as much as possible.

But why would you need the app in a case such as this? It doesn't take a genius or technology to conclude that there may be many more once you have 1-2-5 test-positives with symptoms in the same office.
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  #64  
Old 28.05.2020, 00:51
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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The app is definitely not perfect. It's work in progress, and it's meant to be a supplement to manual tracing.

The question is if such a case is likely around here. I've never seen people with that little space in the office, and now with Covid-19 I would think it's to be avoided as much as possible.

But why would you need the app in a case such as this? It doesn't take a genius or technology to conclude that there may be many more once you have 1-2-5 test-positives with symptoms in the same office.
I've heard of many people with a positive case in their office back in March and they weren't even able to get a test because they couldn't be traced to the person that tested positive for at least 15 minutes at 2m. I don't know if they're doing proper tracing at this point, but my experience since March leads me to believe the efforts will be half-assed.
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  #65  
Old 28.05.2020, 12:13
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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I've heard of many people with a positive case in their office back in March and they weren't even able to get a test because they couldn't be traced to the person that tested positive for at least 15 minutes at 2m. I don't know if they're doing proper tracing at this point, but my experience since March leads me to believe the efforts will be half-assed.
What???

You honestly think March is comparable to now??? A time when even the reference lab didn't have enough test kits for a few days to test all potential cases in their hospital???
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  #66  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:12
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

I think one advantage of the app is that you have a clear case to get tested before being in awful shape whereas in the past it appeared to involve quite a lot of haggling.
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  #67  
Old 28.05.2020, 20:43
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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That has nothing to do with the reaction of the population.

Are you wearing a masks in public? I didn't think so.

As for out and about, that's nonsense. Maybe a few hotspots, but most of it is basically deserted.
No I am not wearing a mask in public while walking my dog as guess what?... According to recent studies, fresh air mitigates the risk of Covid virus spread.

You are completely wrong about Central Zurich. I walk my dog constantly through different neighborhoods in the city (I have an active yellow lab who needs walking) and the numbers on the streets are back to the pre-soft lockdown levels in my view. And very few wear masks - mostly elderly (and good for them!).

So, Zurich for the past 2 and 1/2 weeks has "reopened" and yet no spike and you have no answer as to why there has not been a spike (which most, including me - expected). Your thoughts??
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  #68  
Old 28.05.2020, 21:19
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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As to Italy and Spain, well not to state the obvious but their health care systems (not the best compared to Switzerland or the US) were overwhelmed.
Wrong.

The Italian health system is probably better than the Swiss one.

Your statement is nonsense.

Tom
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  #69  
Old 28.05.2020, 21:31
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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Wrong.

The Italian health system is probably better than the Swiss one.

Your statement is nonsense.

Tom
Then why was the northern Italy health care system overwhelmed Tom? Was it due to many living in confined spaces - to clarify: multi-generational families living in one household?
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  #70  
Old 28.05.2020, 21:38
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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Then why was the northern Italy health care system overwhelmed Tom?
Too many ill people in a short time.

The Italian health system is at least as good if not better than here.

Tom
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  #71  
Old 28.05.2020, 21:43
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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No I am not wearing a mask in public while walking my dog as guess what?... According to recent studies, fresh air mitigates the risk of Covid virus spread.

You are completely wrong about Central Zurich. I walk my dog constantly through different neighborhoods in the city (I have an active yellow lab who needs walking) and the numbers on the streets are back to the pre-soft lockdown levels in my view. And very few wear masks - mostly elderly (and good for them!).

So, Zurich for the past 2 and 1/2 weeks has "reopened" and yet no spike and you have no answer as to why there has not been a spike (which most, including me - expected). Your thoughts??
This is just an anecdotal, one time observation, but I was near the Zurich Hb yesterday and it wasn‘t nearly as crowded as pre -covid times. My train stopped at stadelhofen before the HB and the stops were fairly empty for 2:30 in the afternoon.

My guess is that maybe 15% wore masks, and they seemed to be all ages. Of course maybe there weren‘t a lot of older people out and about, either. At any rate, I don‘t believe we‘re anywhere near pre covid population density. But as I said, just a one time anecdotal observation.
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  #72  
Old 28.05.2020, 22:02
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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This is just an anecdotal, one time observation, but I was near the Zurich Hb yesterday and it wasn‘t nearly as crowded as pre -covid times. My train stopped at stadelhofen before the HB and the stops were fairly empty for 2:30 in the afternoon.

My guess is that maybe 15% wore masks, and they seemed to be all ages. Of course maybe there weren‘t a lot of older people out and about, either. At any rate, I don‘t believe we‘re anywhere near pre covid population density. But as I said, just a one time anecdotal observation.
I don't ride public transport at the moment. But what I have done is walk at least 2-3 hours a day through multiple neighborhoods in central Zurich with my dog (several outings each day I should note!). And on these walks, I see many people out and about. And, based on what I observe, we are close to pre lockdown levels. No masks/no distancing I should add - and as I already pointed out, no spike in infections. Interesting...
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  #73  
Old 29.05.2020, 01:37
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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So, Zurich for the past 2 and 1/2 weeks has "reopened" and yet no spike and you have no answer as to why there has not been a spike (which most, including me - expected). Your thoughts??
The thing is, the dog broke my crystal ball last cristmas. So no, I have no answer.

But I can speculate.
What has changed is knowledge, general behavior, the weather, and the absence of flu and rhinoviruses. If outdoors is less infectuous (makes sense to me) then that may be an additional factor. Pick your poison or make your own, whichever you prefer.

Besides, maybe you see now why the joint announcement by Google and Apple you red blobbed me for some two months ago is a good thing.
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  #74  
Old 31.05.2020, 18:41
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

I installed the Swiss Covid app on my phone. Installation is dead simple, it's one of the few apps I have that required no registration of any kind, no e-mail or anything else. It did require a couple of permissions, I think to permit the low energy Bluetooth on which it depends and to ignore battery optimisations (presumably so it can run when the phone is in standby), but nothing that concerned, in any case compared with the average app on my phone.
It's currently in beta for the general public, has done a couple of updates (very silently) since I installed it, but is most discrete. In other words, it's working very much as it should.
It will become effective only if significant numbers install it, apparently 60-70% of the population.
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  #75  
Old 21.06.2020, 20:10
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

So, the SwissCovid app will go fully live and be available Thursday.

Requirements:
- iOS 13.5, that means at least iPhone 6s (Plus)
- Android 6

According to Salt, Sunrise and Swisscom, close to 20% of the mobile devices currently in use don't meet the requirements.

The source code is open source. Since the UK's app is useless, maybe they decide to hop on the Swiss train.
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  #76  
Old 25.06.2020, 08:44
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

The app is out and I installed it.

However it requires location usage next to bluetooth - on Android at least.
The message reads a bit hilarious:
"Enable location information so the app can use Bluetooth. The app does not recognise location at any time"
Say what?

Edit: Apparently it's an Android "feature":
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...-my-location-0

Last edited by dbucar; 25.06.2020 at 09:33.
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  #77  
Old 25.06.2020, 09:11
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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So, the SwissCovid app will go fully live and be available Thursday.

Requirements:
- iOS 13.5, that means at least iPhone 6s (Plus)
- Android 6

According to Salt, Sunrise and Swisscom, close to 20% of the mobile devices currently in use don't meet the requirements.

The source code is open source. Since the UK's app is useless, maybe they decide to hop on the Swiss train.
Useless to those of us who don’t update phones at the drop of a hat. It won’t work on my iPhone 6.
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  #78  
Old 25.06.2020, 10:22
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

Just a soft comment on this question from a few days ago:
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Then why was the northern Italy health care system overwhelmed Tom? Was it due to many living in confined spaces - to clarify: multi-generational families living in one household?
The most critical situation was in Lombardy, where a) Milan is an international hub creating high exposure and b) it is more or less accepted that mistakes were made in the original handling of the virus, with particular regard of elderly homes. E.g. to make room for Covid patients some non-Covid patients were transferred to elderly homes, withouth knowing if they were already infected (they were).
It has also to be noticed that Italy was the first european country to see a wide spread of the virus, to understand the real extent of the issue took precious time. In hindsight they should clearly have done something differently and earlier, worrying a little less about the economy in Milan (the more you wait the stricter you must lock...).

I think the Italian health system is still good, despite the big problems the country as a whole has experienced in handling Covid. Veneto region borders with Lombardy and has a huge amount of tourists, but was never "overwhelmed".

Regarding the app, I will install it. If it helps preventing a single hotspot, it will be personal data well invested
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  #79  
Old 25.06.2020, 18:37
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

I always wear a mask on the tram. People go out of their way to socially distance.
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Old 25.06.2020, 19:47
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Re: Tracing App developed by ETH for Covid-19

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I always wear a mask on the tram. People go out of their way to socially distance.
Probably because the main part that should be covered is in the open?
Enlarge the nose a little and the distance-problem is solved.
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