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  #41  
Old 26.06.2020, 17:18
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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No, that doesn't count.

Tom
Correct.
The question of guilt (Schuldfrage) has been dropped from the divorce law. Nobody cares about the why anymore. Either both agree or the separation-time is up = it doesn't matter, if one refuses.
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  #42  
Old 26.06.2020, 19:52
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Her job has average complecity in production cycle, big company, 40 other people do exactly the same.
She may be able to argue on those grounds that's she is integrated and it would be unfair for her to be thrown out. Her employer might even be able to get her a work permit for her.

It's certainly not impossible that she could stay. But it's no certainty either.

Personally, I'd go the forgiveness/reconciliation route, if it all possible. It's a lot less stressful. "Betrayal" is included in "for worse".
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  #43  
Old 26.06.2020, 22:03
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Denis, you also need to take into account that your wife will get half your pension until the divorce is finalised.If you are a high earner and she isn’t your pension payments will be higher than hers. Only the pension payed during the marriage will be split.
If this is a concern then formalise the separation as the pension clock stops ticking then, that is new since around 2018. The claim on the pension is then limited to time from marriage to separation.

I do believe this is based on some dragout divorces where non-working wives married to high earners/rich guys clung on for the cash.
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  #44  
Old 26.06.2020, 22:45
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

She has made her choice and moved on, it's time for you to do the same. And do protect yourself.

Alimony:
The longer the relationship lasts the more likely you'll have to pay alimony, and the higher it will be and the longer you'll have to pay. Given your salaries (5k vs 3.5k) this seems already very likely. Postponing the divorce can cost you a lot under this angle alone.

Children:
You don't have any. Still, generally speaking you are the father of your spouse's children by law. If your wife got pregnant while you live apart (inofficially divorced) you'd need a genetic test to disprove your fatherhood, if the mother refuses you need an order by the courts. All of which obviously costs time, nerves, and lots of money. And I've seen cases where the district court refused such a test, meaning the husband had to take the case to the next level, costing even more.
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  #45  
Old 26.06.2020, 23:55
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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If this is a concern then formalise the separation as the pension clock stops ticking then, that is new since around 2018. The claim on the pension is then limited to time from marriage to separation.

I do believe this is based on some dragout divorces where non-working wives married to high earners/rich guys clung on for the cash.
Good info. Thanks.
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  #46  
Old 27.06.2020, 10:31
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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She has made her choice and moved on, it's time for you to do the same. And do protect yourself.

Alimony:
The longer the relationship lasts the more likely you'll have to pay alimony, and the higher it will be and the longer you'll have to pay. Given your salaries (5k vs 3.5k) this seems already very likely. Postponing the divorce can cost you a lot under this angle alone.

Gosh, will it really happen with the alimony ... I have payed for the appartment and everything else, it is her, who has got savings now. and i thought one can live alone from 3,5k easy, as at the beginning we have both lived from my 3,7k here
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  #47  
Old 27.06.2020, 12:20
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Gosh, will it really happen with the alimony ... I have payed for the appartment and everything else, it is her, who has got savings now. and i thought one can live alone from 3,5k easy, as at the beginning we have both lived from my 3,7k here
This is a really great example of why it will be super helpful for you (and anyone in your situation) to speak to an (expensive) divorce lawyer who can help you sort out assumptions from likely outcomes and understand the big picture.

By the way, this sounds like a tough situation. I wish you all the best.
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  #48  
Old 27.06.2020, 12:55
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

It is obvious what she has done to you, and it's despicable and one of the lowest manifestations of human behavior. Cut her no slack, do her no favors. Get her out of your life ASAP and cut your losses and terminate all communication. Get a good lawyer and leverage the fact that SHE cheated on you after only ONE year of marriage.

People like that you need like a hole in your head. There are, unfortunately, many foreign women who will do anything to get their foot in the door of Switzerland, then look for better options once they're in. I've met a couple myself, thank god I figured their game out before doing something stupid.
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  #49  
Old 27.06.2020, 13:07
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

Since we're on the topic of lawyers, and I think OP definitely needs one..

Denis - Make sure you clarify up front any attorney fees - how much per phone call, email, etc. etc. Bills can run up fast and it can be a shocker when you think it was a "quick phone call" and the attorney charges a few hundred Francs. Document every time and conversation you have at the time you have it, so you can have a sense of how much to expect.
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Old 27.06.2020, 15:23
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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It is obvious what she has done to you, and it's despicable and one of the lowest manifestations of human behavior. Cut her no slack, do her no favors. Get her out of your life ASAP and cut your losses and terminate all communication. Get a good lawyer and leverage the fact that SHE cheated on you after only ONE year of marriage.

People like that you need like a hole in your head. There are, unfortunately, many foreign women who will do anything to get their foot in the door of Switzerland, then look for better options once they're in. I've met a couple myself, thank god I figured their game out before doing something stupid.
Foreign woman? Like the foreign OP, who is this one's husband and seems to come from the same country as she does?
Now this was a masterpiece of hostility to foreigners!

Which country are you not a foreigner in?
Must say, if you were British with a Swiss wife it would wonderfully top this off.
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  #51  
Old 27.06.2020, 15:55
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Get her out of your life ASAP and cut your losses and terminate all communication. Get a good lawyer and leverage the fact that SHE cheated on you after only ONE year of marriage.
No leverage at all in CH, so don't waste time & money with a lawyer.
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  #52  
Old 28.06.2020, 13:22
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Since we're on the topic of lawyers, and I think OP definitely needs one..

Denis - Make sure you clarify up front any attorney fees - how much per phone call, email, etc. etc. Bills can run up fast and it can be a shocker when you think it was a "quick phone call" and the attorney charges a few hundred Francs. Document every time and conversation you have at the time you have it, so you can have a sense of how much to expect.
This is a really important point. Spend the time with your lawyer giving the lawyer information that they need to help and you asking the questions that you need to know.

I've heard that many clients spend a lot of time (and a lot of money) explaining how they were wronged and going over their anger and their feelings with the lawyer. Use the lawyer for law and use your friends (or perhaps a counselor or psychologist) for your feelings.

Last edited by jazh; 28.06.2020 at 13:23. Reason: typo
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  #53  
Old 28.06.2020, 16:52
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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No leverage at all in CH, so don't waste time & money with a lawyer.
Maybe not worth it on the cheating aspect, but it could be money well spent to understand rights and responsibilities and minimize any long-term financial damage, provided OP follows this advice (emphasis mine):

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...Spend the time with your lawyer giving the lawyer information that they need to help and you asking the questions that you need to know.

I've heard that many clients spend a lot of time (and a lot of money) explaining how they were wronged and going over their anger and their feelings with the lawyer. Use the lawyer for law and use your friends (or perhaps a counselor or psychologist) for your feelings.
My friends who are lawyers say they don't mind being a sort of counselor because often people feel very wronged and need to vent. But they all agree a beer with a mate or even a psychologist covered by insurance would be far cheaper.
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  #54  
Old 28.06.2020, 17:15
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Foreign woman? Like the foreign OP, who is this one's husband and seems to come from the same country as she does?
Now this was a masterpiece of hostility to foreigners!

Which country are you not a foreigner in?
Must say, if you were British with a Swiss wife it would wonderfully top this off.

I said "many foreign women", not "ALL foreign women". But if it makes you feel better to twist what I wrote in order to make you feel morally righteous, fine. Everyone has to find their kicks somehow.
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Old 28.06.2020, 18:02
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

The days of alimony for life are pretty much over in Switzerland. The only cases where alimony is awarded is where a couple divorces and the wife is a housewife in her 50's with no skills who stayed at home to raise the kids and would have no ability to find a job. In cases where the marriage is very short, there are no kids, and both parties have the ability to earn a living, alimony is almost never awarded.

Best advice is to talk to a lawyer and get the divorce process rolling. Consider yourself lucky that you have no kids together and in all likelihood you will get off without having to maintain her.
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  #56  
Old 30.06.2020, 04:20
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Gosh, will it really happen with the alimony ... I have payed for the appartment and everything else, it is her, who has got savings now. and i thought one can live alone from 3,5k easy, as at the beginning we have both lived from my 3,7k here
I don't say "this will happen". However it's a possibility you need to consider going forward. Especially if continuing the marriage (even if just on paper) is an option for you.

Let me be open:
You need to consider the possibility that she's been using you. In my world, and given the times you mention (6 yrs living together, thereof the last year married) it is simply not plausible that she was still happy with you when you married. Happy in the sense of "yes, this man is the one and I want no other".
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In cases where the marriage is very short, there are no kids, and both parties have the ability to earn a living, alimony is almost never awarded.
That is awfully incomplete.

Since 2017 there's no longer a difference between living together and marriage when it comes to partner-alimony, at least if the couple has kids together. It's not clear to me what that means for couples without kids, but it would be foolish to ignore that aspect. If couples without kids are affected by that change of regulation as well, then there's a fair chance that the years lived-together abroad count. Additionally, OP did fully provide for the wife at times, and he paid for what belongs to "us". If OP accepts another 2yrs of paper-marriage (OP, dont!), the duration taken into consideration will be five years (from 2017, which would be the very least), and that is definintely no longer "very short". Add another two years a drawn-out hostile divorce may easily take, that will be her decision alone, and you enter "long-term marriage" tertitory.

Plus, the two spouses may be able to have divorce handled according to their home-country law. If they married in Switzerland, after having officially registered, and divorce while both are registered here, the divorce will probably (most certainly) be conducted according to Swiss law. But if either were to return to their home country, and to file for divorce there, things may be entirely different - AFAIK (and IANAL) the one who files for divorce usually decides the applicable law. If the wife decided to go that route, without the ability to re-register after deregistering, the whole thing would become even more complicated.

Given that the wife may have been using OP for quite long, it would be foolish to brush these possibilities away (do keep the details private, OP).

So yes, OP, do talk to a lawyer.
The inexpensive option is if both spouses employ the same lawyer, together.

The quickest path would be to agree to what's called a "ScheidungsKonvention", basically an agreement between the spouses ruling which spouse gets what, and get that ruled on (accepted) by a judge.

OP, see here for an overview on divorce.
See here for a few templates that give you an idea what to consider. Also here an overview on what to consider by the semi-official Pro Familia.

Last edited by Urs Max; 30.06.2020 at 04:40.
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Old 30.06.2020, 04:52
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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Hi everyone,
I have read the forum, but have not found an answer for my situation.
After one year of marriage (no kids), it turned out that my new wife has another relationship(s). We have decided to divorce , as I find it no more a healthy situation for building a family.

The question is, that she is not from EU. And I don't want to cause her too much troubles. She is working full time, same as me and wants to stay in Switzerland. We both have "B" for five years

The question is will she be able to? As far as I understood, that if I sign divorce papers, will she have two years, as she will not sign of course.
Or should I keep it a secret to authorities and notify them later in two years?
I could give two years, but not four, as I am in my middle ages.

Thank you so much in advance for any advice, as the loyer or gemainde could potentially heat up the situation
You owe her nothing except what she is legally entitled to, especially with hiding anything from the authorities. Cut ties with her as soon as possible in the smoothest and most amicable way and get on with rebuilding your life. She made her choice to betray you and she now needs to choose her own path and, as hard as it will be, you should ideally not be supporting her for any longer than it takes to separate from her.

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In cases where the marriage is very short, there are no kids, and both parties have the ability to earn a living, alimony is almost never awarded.
Really? Sounds remarkably sane.

Last edited by Chuff; 30.06.2020 at 09:19.
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Old 30.06.2020, 07:18
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

@OP,

You made your ex-wife look like some sort of ungrateful person and then added some relevant info to your side of the story that suddenly put her in a different light. A bit too late (since everyone started to make all sort of character judgements and diatribes against women/foreigners etc...sigh) and too much info on this thread if you ask me, apart from some "therapeutical" benefits I don't see why were they so important.

I suppose you both need to consult an immigration lawyer/office and ask them if she can keep her current B permit if your marital status changes.
That's it. You shouldn't have told the whole internet your and her life story if you ask me.

You were in a long term relation and that turned out to not work anymore, it happens all the time. I think the divorce should be pretty easy and fast in your situation - short marriage, no kids etc.
Do it sooner than later, otherwise according to the Swiss laws you will have to split even the pension accumulated while married, which I, for one, find it rather unfair. (I should probably shush, as my OH is a higher earner than me but I would never agree to split these money)
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Old 30.06.2020, 08:38
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

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It is obvious what she has done to you, and it's despicable and one of the lowest manifestations of human behavior. Cut her no slack, do her no favors. Get her out of your life ASAP and cut your losses and terminate all communication. Get a good lawyer and leverage the fact that SHE cheated on you after only ONE year of marriage.

People like that you need like a hole in your head. There are, unfortunately, many foreign women who will do anything to get their foot in the door of Switzerland, then look for better options once they're in. I've met a couple myself, thank god I figured their game out before doing something stupid.

What a lot of spite and vitriol for a woman you have never met and whose own husband says she is a good person, they are the same nationality and how before marriage they lived together for 6 years with his mother who the wife did a great deal to help.
Bit too familiar a situation that struck a nerve, eh.
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Old 30.06.2020, 19:01
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Re: Divorce after one year of marriage/leaving switzerland

If one of you moves to another location, the landlord/hotel will inform the authorities. There isn't much of a chance of hiding this unless you actively lie. There will be fines in this case.
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