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  #21  
Old 03.07.2020, 21:54
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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The reasoning behind this is that, as an employee, you have a duty towards the employer to get to work and do your work, and this includes conducting yourself, in your free-time, in a manner that will permit your full participation at work. That includes such things as not getting so drunk that you'll still be under the influence when next at work, and getting enough sleep so you can concentrate. As an employee, one also has a duty towards all the other employees at work.

Therefore, choosing to engage in high-risk activity (such as travelling to a country with a high infection rate) could be regarded as a failure to exercise one's proper duty to one's employer and colleagues.
The problem with that argument is that the quarantine benefits society, the individual doesn't gain anything at all, quite the contrary in fact.

Furthermore who orders, pays.

The case is far clearer than increasing the "Kurzarbeit" days to 180, or however many it is now. But those quarantined have no lobby, so things are unlikely to change. As a result, like the restaurant presence lists, all too many will bypass what's in the best interest of all. Instead of punishing the quarantined, their efforts and cooperation should be honored by paying for it - the 30 billion the lockdown cost will pay for quite a few cases.

The only right thing is for the government, federal or cantonal, to pay for the lost workdays.
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  #22  
Old 03.07.2020, 21:57
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

EF is going to be extremely busy this summer. Be prepared for trolls, daily Friday threads, people looking for help and perhaps an upturn in people really caring again.
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  #23  
Old 03.07.2020, 22:32
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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Therefore, choosing to engage in high-risk activity (such as travelling to a country with a high infection rate) could be regarded as a failure to exercise one's proper duty to one's employer and colleagues.
Or getting out of bed.

Or skiing.

Or crossing the road.

Or taking a bath.

All of these activities are far more risky than COVID.

Tom
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  #24  
Old 03.07.2020, 23:05
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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All of these activities are far more risky than COVID.
OMG. you walking on a thin ice
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  #25  
Old 04.07.2020, 06:21
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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Or getting out of bed.
Or skiing.
Or crossing the road.
Or taking a bath.
All of these activities are far more risky than COVID.
Tom
For the individual, yes. They fit into Curley's "each to their own".
https://www.englishforum.ch/3196343-post23306.html

But wilfully engaging in an activity that carries a high risk of damaging others is not the same thing. That's putting one's fellow employees and employer at risk. Plus all the other people whom one encounters while travelling back from the high-risk country. All that could be avoided by not travelling there in the first place.
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The problem with that argument is that the quarantine benefits society, the individual doesn't gain anything at all, quite the contrary in fact.
There is no reason why that individual should gain anything by the quarantine. Someone who sets off knowingly and willingly, into a high-risk area, and then returns to Switzerland with "bugs from over there" is doing something that is detrimental to society.

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The only right thing is for the government, federal or cantonal, to pay for the lost workdays.
Or perhaps a huge big "right thing" to do would be to just forego travelling to one of those high-risk areas, in the first place. Just don't do it.

And there's always this hope:
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Well, I would hope that you are decent human being who understands the risk you would potentially put others in by not following the strict rules of quarantine.
A message from some of those who work to save lives (Austrian Firemen):
https://scontent.fzrh1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...8f&oe=5F24D355

Last edited by doropfiz; 04.07.2020 at 17:25.
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  #26  
Old 04.07.2020, 06:50
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

Thats the positive effect of the virus. It put an end to the destructive side of tourism. RIP! And I no longer have to get angry over those jet trails blocking out 90% of the sunshine
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  #27  
Old 04.07.2020, 19:18
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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Well, I would hope that you are decent human being who understands the risk you would potentially put others in by not following the strict rules of quarantine. So that question is hopefully moot.

If you are a selfish idiot who only responds to the threat of fines or legal action, then I really don't know what to say to you.
I hope you understand that you can break laws and still be a decent human being, since laws are by their nature very general. Have you ever jaywalked when no one was in sight? Will anyone be hurt if I go for a 6 am run in the countryside, or is it perhaps a victimless crime? If I go for a motorcycle ride for an hour, will the virus magically escape from my full-face helmet and kill a bunch of innocent people? It is far more important that you use your brain than that you follow the law if you want to keep people safe.
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  #28  
Old 04.07.2020, 19:21
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I hope you understand that you can break laws and still be a decent human being, since laws are by their nature very general. Have you ever jaywalked when no one was in sight? Will anyone be hurt if I go for a 6 am run in the countryside, or is it perhaps a victimless crime? If I go for a motorcycle ride for an hour, will the virus magically escape from my full-face helmet and kill a bunch of innocent people? It is far more important that you use your brain than that you follow the law if you want to keep people safe.
May be but with this you can potentially infect a lot of people who then can infect a lot of people. Slightly different from jaywalking??

If you run, you will probably run past someone. Etcetera etceterea. So please follow the law on this one? Which your logical brain might tell you as well
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  #29  
Old 04.07.2020, 19:51
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I am contemplating a trip to see family in Sweden, that will result in a 10 day quarantine upon return to Switzerland.

I have not been able to find any information as to what the rules of the quarantine is. It seems like the administration is done locally, so the answer may differ depending on Canton. I assume I will not be allowed to go to work, but what about other things? Groceries? Jogging? Biking? Swimming? Hiking? And how is compliance monitored? Will they ring my doorbell at random times? There is apparently a fine of up to CHF 10 000.

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...-reisende.html
Why can't they just test you for Covid on entry? And they come across the border points from Italy,France etc. No control. A bit of an hypocricy there
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  #30  
Old 04.07.2020, 19:57
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

I'm supposed to be in Scotland for 2 weeks in September. Having seen the photos of the pubs reopening in Britain today I have a feeling the trip will be cancelled. Really difficult as I have important legal business to attend to, but what can you do?
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  #31  
Old 04.07.2020, 20:01
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I'm supposed to be in Scotland for 2 weeks in September. Having seen the photos of the pubs reopening in Britain today I have a feeling the trip will be cancelled. Really difficult as I have important legal business to attend to, but what can you do?
Pubs are not open yet in Scotland

But I see your point, we moved our holidays (in Scotland) from now to the end of August, not sure if that will work either
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  #32  
Old 04.07.2020, 20:49
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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Any idea how quarantine regs would affect people who live with someone who has traveled?

For instance, what do you think this means for people living in WGs? Would the flat mates who have not traveled also be required to quarantine, even if they could somehow split the flat to isolate the traveler?
This is for Canada, but.... if one partner travels out of country and returns, he must quarantine OUTSIDE of the home. In other words, he'd return to Canada and have to quarantine himself in a hotel for two weeks (or 10 days, or whatever it is).
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  #33  
Old 04.07.2020, 20:54
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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Why can't they just test you for Covid on entry? And they come across the border points from Italy,France etc. No control. A bit of an hypocricy there
Exactly. Even in Ukraine its implemented like this (with some stupid boundaries but still)

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.07.2020 at 21:44. Reason: fixed quote
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  #34  
Old 04.07.2020, 22:29
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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There is no reason why that individual should gain anything by the quarantine. Someone who sets off knowingly and willingly, into a high-risk area, and then returns to Switzerland with "bugs from over there" is doing something that is detrimental to society.
Agreed, that's the exception to the rule, applicable to those who went there after an area was declared high-risk.

However, I'm speaking of quarantine in general. I trust you're aware that people so far caught the virus doing perfectly acceptable stuff that wasn't declared high-risk at the time, including having fun in a club. These are the quarantines only the public gains from. Same for those alerted by the Covid app (which may be rendered useless by the mandatory masks anyway).
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  #35  
Old 05.07.2020, 08:52
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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May be but with this you can potentially infect a lot of people who then can infect a lot of people. Slightly different from jaywalking??

If you run, you will probably run past someone. Etcetera etceterea. So please follow the law on this one? Which your logical brain might tell you as well
You can cause trauma in drivers who hit you when jaywalking, as well as other negative externalities if you are hospitalised, such as increased healthcare costs, reduced tax revenue and output. When running, in addition to picking a trail where I have never met another person, I can pick a trail where I can step off it if I meet another runner. I can also run with a mask, etc. Quarantines are there to reduce the risk of infections, not to eliminate them completely.

In the end I decided to not use my ticket. Partly because of the risk of spreading the infection, and partly because of the hassle of being in quarantine. I totally support the introduction of a quarantine, but I still believe that there may be good reasons for individuals in quarantine to occasionally break the rules.
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  #36  
Old 05.07.2020, 08:56
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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In the end I decided to not use my ticket. Partly because of the risk of spreading the infection, and partly because of the hassle of being in quarantine.
Sounds like a good decision. Let's hope this whole thing will be over some time soon, so we can all see, and hug, the people we love.
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  #37  
Old 05.07.2020, 13:06
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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The reasoning behind this is that, as an employee, you have a duty towards the employer to get to work and do your work, and this includes conducting yourself, in your free-time, in a manner that will permit your full participation at work. That includes such things as not getting so drunk that you'll still be under the influence when next at work, and getting enough sleep so you can concentrate. As an employee, one also has a duty towards all the other employees at work.

Therefore, choosing to engage in high-risk activity (such as travelling to a country with a high infection rate) could be regarded as a failure to exercise one's proper duty to one's employer and colleagues.
If everything in life were black and white....

To begin with, the rate of 60 new infections per 100K in the last 14 days it's a variable thing. If you decide to travel somewhere which is deemed OK today now but it changes next week, what would be the recommendation? Don't travel to a place which rate might be above the boundary? Only problem is we cannot predict the future. So, don't overthink these rules, just follow them.

In the end, all this talk about duties in the job doesn't matter because employers can lay off anyone at any time without having to explaining anything. Better ask the manager and discuss the implications because there is no general advice. I asked at may job and they told me I can continue doing home office in case I get the order to stay 10 days at home.
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  #38  
Old 05.07.2020, 13:07
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

I fly tomorrow and return to CH on August 3. I can tell how the first flight went when I have access to WiFi
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  #39  
Old 05.07.2020, 18:12
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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If everything in life were black and white....
Oh, yes, certainly, if it were so, things would be much clearer. But that's not reality.

For now it seems that, although many people have died, it is probably a much more serious matter (for any individual, and also for the economy) when a person gets infected and does not die but becomes medium- to long-term ill, in some cases seriously impaired in their everyday functioning. It is from that danger that we all share the responsibility to protect others, as far as possible.

It is precisely because so much is not known about Covid-19, that there is wisdom in the range of precautionary measures, including Just Stay At Home.
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  #40  
Old 06.07.2020, 13:27
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

I understand why people want to go on holidays, but the entitlement to go on holidays during a pandemic is really bizarre to me. I can go hiking 30 minutes outside Zurich and that's plenty of a holiday for me given the situation we're in. Can't people give up their ideal vacation for a year? Few people are considering that there's a very real likelyhood that the majority of survivors will have long-term health consequences as was the case with SARS. I already have colleagues outside switzerland, two months post-covid that still can't work 40 hours or even make it up the stairs without running out of breath. Not going on vacation or keeping quarantine seems like a really small short-term change in lifestyle to avoid spread.
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