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  #41  
Old 06.07.2020, 13:40
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I understand why people want to go on holidays, but the entitlement to go on holidays during a pandemic is really bizarre to me. I can go hiking 30 minutes outside Zurich and that's plenty of a holiday for me given the situation we're in. Can't people give up their ideal vacation for a year? Few people are considering that there's a very real likelyhood that the majority of survivors will have long-term health consequences as was the case with SARS. I already have colleagues outside switzerland, two months post-covid that still can't work 40 hours or even make it up the stairs without running out of breath. Not going on vacation or keeping quarantine seems like a really small short-term change in lifestyle to avoid spread.
I believe the majority of people pushing to go on holidays are actually doing so because they want to see family. This is something I entirely sympathise with and I do hope that employers will be open to making this possible in some way, i.e. by allowing for people to work from home when quarantined upon returning. If, however, someone travels to a risk country just because that is where they fancy a holiday, I don't think employers should have to bear any negative impact from this choice.

What I definitely cannot sympathise with is the hyperindividualist view that one is able to safely ignore quarantine rules. Yes, when formulating such rules, the baseline application is based on what the Germans call the "DAU" - dŁmmster anzunehmender User, i.e. the dumbest possible user. This still does not mean that you get to self-assign yourself as Root and override the system to fit your needs if you believe yourself to be smarter than the average yokel.
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  #42  
Old 06.07.2020, 13:41
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I understand why people want to go on holidays, but the entitlement to go on holidays during a pandemic is really bizarre to me. I can go hiking 30 minutes outside Zurich and that's plenty of a holiday for me given the situation we're in. Can't people give up their ideal vacation for a year? Few people are considering that there's a very real likelyhood that the majority of survivors will have long-term health consequences as was the case with SARS. I already have colleagues outside switzerland, two months post-covid that still can't work 40 hours or even make it up the stairs without running out of breath. Not going on vacation or keeping quarantine seems like a really small short-term change in lifestyle to avoid spread.
If only it were that simple, though. Not everyone goes on an "ideal vacation". Many of us don't live near our families, and summer holiday is the one time we get to see them for the entire year. If everyone is relatively healthy, to some families it *might* be worth the risk so long as extra precautions are taken. Even if not healthy to some it would be worth the risk. My grandpa would not care if I visited and brought him Covid right now, he's almost 90 and says he's ready to go any time. He'd rather see me now than have me visit his grave after (sorry gramps, I'm still not coming right now).

I'm trying not to judge others, because I don't know their situation. Although I guess if you're jetting off to a few weeks in Tahiti I might be a bit jealous.
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  #43  
Old 06.07.2020, 14:17
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

Of course the old people don't mind. Why would they? They have no need to worry. If they're realistic about their lives and deaths, well, they know they're going to die - relatively speaking - soonish, anyway. And one has to die of something.

But this is a very valid point:
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IFew people are considering that there's a very real likelihood that the majority of survivors will have long-term health consequences as was the case with SARS. I already have colleagues outside switzerland, two months post-covid that still can't work 40 hours or even make it up the stairs without running out of breath. Not going on vacation or keeping quarantine seems like a really small short-term change in lifestyle to avoid spread.
Exactly. Although some do bounce back, I know such people in my circle, too, who have been knocked over. Previously, they were energetic, hard-working, enthusiastic, fit people, aged somewhere 40+, and now post Covid-19, they're dragging themselves around, looking grey and 15 years older, and everything, every single thing that they try to do takes extra effort, and they've been forced to capitulate and just abandon many tasks entirely.

It's not about grandpa. It's about changing one's behaviour sufficiently to not endanger those who are likely to live for a long time. And perhaps live for decades with long-term health impairments.
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Not going on vacation or keeping quarantine seems like a really small short-term change in lifestyle to avoid spread.
This.

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What I definitely cannot sympathise with is the hyperindividualist view that one is able to safely ignore quarantine rules. Yes, when formulating such rules, the baseline application is based on what the Germans call the "DAU" - dŁmmster anzunehmender User, i.e. the dumbest possible user. This still does not mean that you get to self-assign yourself as Root and override the system to fit your needs if you believe yourself to be smarter than the average yokel.
And this.
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  #44  
Old 06.07.2020, 14:24
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I have not been able to find any information as to what the rules of the quarantine is. I assume I will not be allowed to go to work, but what about other things? Groceries? Jogging? Biking? Swimming? Hiking? And how is compliance monitored? Will they ring my doorbell at random times? There is apparently a fine of up to CHF 10 000.
Yeah, it's a quarantine where you can go out in public places. Makes perfect sense... right?

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I understand why people want to go on holidays, but the entitlement to go on holidays during a pandemic is really bizarre to me. I can go hiking 30 minutes outside Zurich and that's plenty of a holiday for me given the situation we're in. Can't people give up their ideal vacation for a year? Few people are considering that there's a very real likelyhood that the majority of survivors will have long-term health consequences as was the case with SARS. I already have colleagues outside switzerland, two months post-covid that still can't work 40 hours or even make it up the stairs without running out of breath. Not going on vacation or keeping quarantine seems like a really small short-term change in lifestyle to avoid spread.
Life has taught me that many people are selfish and have low levels of common sense combined with a lack of foresight that does not always enable them to analyze available information and make smart decisions. You cannot, on average, trust people to act sensibly and I saw some really poor judgement from people during this pandemic in the social/activity groups I am part of.
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  #45  
Old 06.07.2020, 17:17
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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If only it were that simple, though. Not everyone goes on an "ideal vacation". Many of us don't live near our families, and summer holiday is the one time we get to see them for the entire year. If everyone is relatively healthy, to some families it *might* be worth the risk so long as extra precautions are taken. Even if not healthy to some it would be worth the risk. My grandpa would not care if I visited and brought him Covid right now, he's almost 90 and says he's ready to go any time. He'd rather see me now than have me visit his grave after (sorry gramps, I'm still not coming right now).
You're right that many don't live near family. Despite being allowed an 8-hour flight with my 200 closest friends, and a 14-day quarantine, I haven't seen my mother in almost a year. I'm not sure why I would risk long-term disability, my life and hers, and those of my family to do this when I can visit her next year?
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  #46  
Old 06.07.2020, 18:04
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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You're right that many don't live near family. Despite being allowed an 8-hour flight with my 200 closest friends, and a 14-day quarantine, I haven't seen my mother in almost a year. I'm not sure why I would risk long-term disability, my life and hers, and those of my family to do this when I can visit her next year?
You and I might take that approach, to not see our relatives right now, but others may choose a different approach. I can't fault someone for wanting to see his or her own parents, so long as both the child and parents agree that it's worth the risk. To some, it truly might be worth it, for example if the relative has terminal cancer and it's the last chance to see them alive.

But as Chuff said - many people don't have common sense and are pretty selfish. I'm not sure people are having enough conversations regarding risks and whether getting together is truly worthwhile. Certainly the number of 4th of July posts I saw on FB it seems no one cared whether the whole group got sick, even if there were dozens of at-risk family members there.
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Old 06.07.2020, 18:11
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

People are still having birthday parties and family/friend gatherings. Is that selfish? I can't decide since no contact can also lead to poor mental health.

I think we are in the process of learning to live with this until a vaccine has been developed. It's not going to be a perfect road and we'll all be letting our guard down at times.

What's extremely important is that if you have been in contact or are have been tested positive, it's important to take the correct measures to stop the spread.
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  #48  
Old 06.07.2020, 18:50
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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You and I might take that approach, to not see our relatives right now, but others may choose a different approach. I can't fault someone for wanting to see his or her own parents, so long as both the child and parents agree that it's worth the risk. To some, it truly might be worth it, for example if the relative has terminal cancer and it's the last chance to see them alive.
I get that, I do. It's just that they decide for everyone else they meet, along the way, too, all those who were not part of their personal family conference.

So they decide that it's worth it for themselves, but also that the effects of their actions will just roll on out over all the other travellers and workers and families en route, in both directions.
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Old 06.07.2020, 23:41
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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This is for Canada, but.... if one partner travels out of country and returns, he must quarantine OUTSIDE of the home. In other words, he'd return to Canada and have to quarantine himself in a hotel for two weeks (or 10 days, or whatever it is).
Interesting. What about minors? My daughter is about to visit her father in England (not yet on the list) for her court mandated visitation. If England goes on the list before she comes back, itís not like she can isolate from me... being a child. As itís part of the custody arrangement from a Swiss court, I am not sure I can cancel it (and it would be very psychologically damaging to her if I did). But I do worry about her school and my job.
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Old 07.07.2020, 12:22
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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Interesting. What about minors? My daughter is about to visit her father in England (not yet on the list) for her court mandated visitation. If England goes on the list before she comes back, itís not like she can isolate from me... being a child. As itís part of the custody arrangement from a Swiss court, I am not sure I can cancel it (and it would be very psychologically damaging to her if I did). But I do worry about her school and my job.
I would think most child custody arrangements are flexible given major world events? After all, you wouldn't send your child to a war zone and given that the UK has the second highest death rate in Europe... the experience might not be pleasant if she gets sick. Life unfortunately doesn't always go on.

Switzerland may have a negligible death rate among kids, but that's not the case in the UK and the US.
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Old 07.07.2020, 14:14
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I would think most child custody arrangements are flexible given major world events? After all, you wouldn't send your child to a war zone and given that the UK has the second highest death rate in Europe... the experience might not be pleasant if she gets sick. Life unfortunately doesn't always go on.

Switzerland may have a negligible death rate among kids, but that's not the case in the UK and the US.
It may nit happen, my ex was going to fly out and fly her back (there is no UM service right now), and she will fly back with my mum, who will stay a couple of days and bring brown sugar. Her and mumís flight back was cancelled, but rebooked within hours for the next flight, and then I found his flight out has been cancelled, and he has not yet rebooked it..... and even cancelled the outward portion. So......

Anyway, Itís the UK, not the southern US, Brazil, or India.....
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  #52  
Old 07.07.2020, 15:01
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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It may nit happen, my ex was going to fly out and fly her back (there is no UM service right now), and she will fly back with my mum, who will stay a couple of days and bring brown sugar. Her and mumís flight back was cancelled, but rebooked within hours for the next flight, and then I found his flight out has been cancelled, and he has not yet rebooked it..... and even cancelled the outward portion. So......

Anyway, Itís the UK, not the southern US, Brazil, or India.....
It sounds like an awful mess, and stressful, trying to get all the parts to line up as a whole. Would it not perhaps be less so, if your daughter's father just visited her in Switzerland and took her on holiday here, or just on outings, while she's staying at home with you? I understand that she'd be very disappointed, but from what you've written before, she sounds like quite a sensible person, so perhaps she'd understand that this is an exception.
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Old 07.07.2020, 16:46
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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It may nit happen, my ex was going to fly out and fly her back (there is no UM service right now), and she will fly back with my mum, who will stay a couple of days and bring brown sugar. Her and mumís flight back was cancelled, but rebooked within hours for the next flight, and then I found his flight out has been cancelled, and he has not yet rebooked it..... and even cancelled the outward portion. So...
Either way, I hope they're able to see each other safely, whatever that ends up being.
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Old 07.07.2020, 21:48
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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It sounds like an awful mess, and stressful, trying to get all the parts to line up as a whole. Would it not perhaps be less so, if your daughter's father just visited her in Switzerland and took her on holiday here, or just on outings, while she's staying at home with you? I understand that she'd be very disappointed, but from what you've written before, she sounds like quite a sensible person, so perhaps she'd understand that this is an exception.
His current wife will not stand for him staying with me, and he canít afford a hotel. She was OK about missing a week in April, but it is her birthday too.

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Either way, I hope they're able to see each other safely, whatever that ends up being.
Thanks.
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Old 15.07.2020, 20:19
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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You're right that many don't live near family. Despite being allowed an 8-hour flight with my 200 closest friends, and a 14-day quarantine, I haven't seen my mother in almost a year. I'm not sure why I would risk long-term disability, my life and hers, and those of my family to do this when I can visit her next year?
Every decision is a gamble. Hope make us think the future situation will improve next year, but it is not the most reliable decision making tool. If today there are flights, employers are supportive and borders are partially open, why not travel? Winter will come to the northern hemisphere and we may learn about the futility of waiting, the "end" may take very long to arrive.

Last week my wife and I flew ZRH-FRA-MEX via Swiss and Lufthansa. No questions at all to board the flight in ZRH, nothing when passed the passport control at FRA. Not even temperature checks. Only inconvenience was that the Priority Pass lounge in FRA is before you cross the passport control....and noticed this too late :/

PS: List of the states and areas with an increased risk of infection. These are the rules, play by the rules https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...nreisende.html
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Old 15.07.2020, 22:07
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

Have any of you been able to change your Swiss tickets without (too much of) a penalty if one decides not to fly due to the quarantine issue?

I realize that the situation is different now. Swiss is back flying, so it's now a personal choice to travel or not, inability to go into quarantine isn't their problem.

But still...

Anyone tried to reschedule recently?
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Old 16.07.2020, 03:03
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

I am wondering specifically about taking care of a dog while in quarantine. I know that under lockdown rules in Italy there was an exception for letting a dog out to do its business. It does seem that the Swiss mandatory quarantine may be more strict than that but I'm trying to figure out what to do with the dog. I will probably hire a dog walker but then does handing the dog off twice a day count as contact with another person?

For background, I am moving soon from the US for a job that has been in the works for almost a year. It isn't really travel that I can postpone and anyway I think things may get worse before they get better in the US. All in all a 10 day quarantine is not bad all things considered. Just trying to figure out the best way to handle it.
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Old 16.07.2020, 09:23
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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I am wondering specifically about taking care of a dog while in quarantine. I know that under lockdown rules in Italy there was an exception for letting a dog out to do its business. It does seem that the Swiss mandatory quarantine may be more strict than that but I'm trying to figure out what to do with the dog. I will probably hire a dog walker but then does handing the dog off twice a day count as contact with another person?
.
Protocol that my friend followed as she was caring for a dog whose owner was positive and in quarantine:

Try to supply the dog walker with a new, never used in your household collar, halter, leash and any other accoutrements needed during a walk. It's probably best that you give the dog walker the money to buy these things here rather than bringing them with you from the US, as your belongings should also be 'quarantined'.

The leads and accoutrement used should be disinfected after every walk, and the walker should take them home with her. These things should not be left in your house during your quarantine.

Do you have a garden? If so, the dog should be in the garden, waiting for the walker.

If you don't have a garden, the walker will likely need to come to your flat. Have the door unlocked, your dog waiting in the entrance. You stay in another room. The dog walker quickly leashes your dog, and off they go.

Make sure you have disinfectant outside your door, as well as gloves. And of course you both should be masked. You might have to insist on this point, as there still is resistance among many Swiss. You should offer to pay for the walker's gloves and masks.

Reverse the protocol when the walker returns your dog.

The hand-off can be tricky as your dog won't know the walker. Is your dog generally friendly and trusting?

The most difficult part of this might be finding a walker. It's not easy to find someone responsible and capable, let alone willing to walk a dog whose owner is in quarantine. Start looking now, enlist your new colleagues in helping with the search. Or your relocation agent, if you have one, could organise the whole thing for you.

My friend was doing this voluntarily as part of her Tierschutz activities, it was organised by the local vet. However, you won't have those relationships if you are newly arrived, so you should count on hiring someone.

One place to look for a dog walker is Petsiting 24, a platform that connects dog care providers and owners needing help. There is a fee to join, but it's minimal.
https://petsitting24.ch/de/

All the best with the move.
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Old 16.07.2020, 09:44
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

Sweden was expelled from high risk areas in Germany. What about Switzerland?
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Old 16.07.2020, 09:54
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Re: What am I allowed to do if quarantined in Switzerland?

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Have any of you been able to change your Swiss tickets without (too much of) a penalty if one decides not to fly due to the quarantine issue?

I realize that the situation is different now. Swiss is back flying, so it's now a personal choice to travel or not, inability to go into quarantine isn't their problem.

But still...

Anyone tried to reschedule recently?

Yes, rescheduled several flights, mainly because they had cancelled the return flight or changed time....... also, changed some because I did not want to fly that date. Easily done on the phone and some online, only minor charges (45 Rappen or so in the end)
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