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Old 06.07.2020, 08:15
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Child maintenance

After our divorce in 2017, we managed to get joint custody even though the judge was going against all our wishes. In the end I had to pay my ex wife 650.- a month for my then 12 year old son. At the beginning he stayed roughly 50/50 with us which was easy as we lived in adjacent streets. Now my son is 15, his mum has remarried and has a new baby, my son is now living with me. So here where the problem lies. She insists that I still pay her the 650.- and she keeps the 275.- child allowance each month even though my son is with me.
For clarity, the 650.- was solely for my son and not part of any support for my ex wife.
Is this correct what she does or should she accept that I should no longer pay and she should also pay me the Kinderzulage?
One person suggested that she should now actually pay me 650.- per month
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Old 06.07.2020, 08:33
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Re: Child maintenance

Regarding the family allowance (Kinderzulagen), below is a translation of the precedence to follow for divorced parents:

"What if several persons meet the conditions for receiving family allowances? Only one allowance may be paid for each child. If more than one person fulfills the conditions for receiving family allowances, entitlement is based on the following order of precedence, which is decisive not only between mother and father, but also for other entitled persons:
1. the person in gainful employment;
2. the person who has parental care or who has held parental care until he or she came of age;
3. the person who has parental care or who has held it until he or she came of age. In the case of joint parental custody or if none of the entitled persons has parental custody, the person who lives predominantly with the child or lived with the child until he or she came of age is primarily entitled to claim; in the case of separation or divorce, therefore, the person who looks after the child with him or her is primarily entitled to claim;
4. If both persons entitled to claim live together with the child, priority is given to whoever works in the child's canton of residence;
5. if both or neither of the persons entitled to claim work in the child's canton of residence, the family allowances are paid to whoever has the higher income subject to AHV from gainful employment. If neither of them receives income from gainful employment, priority is given to the person who receives the higher income from self-employment.
The second entitled person is entitled to the corresponding difference if the statutory family allowances are higher in his canton than in the canton in which the family allowances are paid with priority. Persons who are not gainfully employed are not entitled to the difference payment."

Also see the examples at pp. 6-7 (German):

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/6.08.d
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Old 06.07.2020, 10:11
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Re: Child maintenance

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Regarding the family allowance (Kinderzulagen), below is a translation of the precedence to follow for divorced parents:

"What if several persons meet the conditions for receiving family allowances? Only one allowance may be paid for each child. If more than one person fulfills the conditions for receiving family allowances, entitlement is based on the following order of precedence, which is decisive not only between mother and father, but also for other entitled persons:
1. the person in gainful employment;
2. the person who has parental care or who has held parental care until he or she came of age;
3. the person who has parental care or who has held it until he or she came of age. In the case of joint parental custody or if none of the entitled persons has parental custody, the person who lives predominantly with the child or lived with the child until he or she came of age is primarily entitled to claim; in the case of separation or divorce, therefore, the person who looks after the child with him or her is primarily entitled to claim;
4. If both persons entitled to claim live together with the child, priority is given to whoever works in the child's canton of residence;
5. if both or neither of the persons entitled to claim work in the child's canton of residence, the family allowances are paid to whoever has the higher income subject to AHV from gainful employment. If neither of them receives income from gainful employment, priority is given to the person who receives the higher income from self-employment.
The second entitled person is entitled to the corresponding difference if the statutory family allowances are higher in his canton than in the canton in which the family allowances are paid with priority. Persons who are not gainfully employed are not entitled to the difference payment."

Also see the examples at pp. 6-7 (German):

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/6.08.d
Thanks Mullhollander, Kinderzulage I am clear on but the maintenance is set by a judge. Is this fixed, I pay the mother no matter what or is it the parent who has the child 100% who receives the money ?
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Old 06.07.2020, 10:14
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Re: Child maintenance

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Thanks Mullhollander, Kinderzulage I am clear on but the maintenance is set by a judge. Is this fixed, I pay the mother no matter what or is it the parent who has the child 100% who receives the money ?
No idea. But I guess you need to get a new judgement to reflect the change in circumstances. Presumably, you have some official documentation to confirm that you now have the child 100%?
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Old 06.07.2020, 10:36
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Re: Child maintenance

The child gets it all, regardless of who they are living with.

Tom
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Old 06.07.2020, 10:56
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Re: Child maintenance

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The child gets it all, regardless of who they are living with.

Tom
True, but not in this case and there lies the problem.
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Old 06.07.2020, 11:01
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Re: Child maintenance

Swiss Authorities Online (ch.ch) provides guidance on "Divorce and Maintenance Contributions":

"Child maintenance payments

Parents continue to be responsible for supporting their children financially after a divorce. This responsibility ends at the earliest when the child reaches the age of majority or completes a first level of education and training that allows it to start work.

The size of the maintenance contributions should reflect the needs of the child, although they must not exceed the means of the person paying maintenance and drive them below the minimum subsistence level.
For information on how maintenance contributions are calculated, contact a judicial authority or a lawyer.

Living conditions
  • If the children live primarily with you, you are responsible for bringing them up and contribute in this way to their maintenance.
  • If the children do not live with you, you must pay monthly maintenance contributions as long as your income is over the minimum subsistence level. The amount of time you spend looking after the children is considered in the calculation of the maintenance contributions."
https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce-and-mai...contributions/
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Old 06.07.2020, 12:44
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Re: Child maintenance

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No idea. But I guess you need to get a new judgement to reflect the change in circumstances. Presumably, you have some official documentation to confirm that you now have the child 100%?
A child of 15 can choose where they lives, either the mother or the father. Previously he lived 50\50 with us both. The payment took this into account as I earned more money than his mother and this was fine for me. She needed the money more however now he is living with me full time.
I am also of the mind that we need a new judgement however that cost time and money both of which we do not have (I lost my job 2 months ago after 18 years service).
What I am asking here, has anyone else been in the same situation ? What is the process here in CH ? Logically the it doesn't make sense for me to pay his mother if he lives with me and if we are really being fair and correct, she should pay me to support our son but that I do not want. If I am paying her the money is not being used for our son.
Official documentation that he is living with me ????? I have the divorce papers with joint custody and responsibilties for us both plus the amount of money I should pay as at the time I was the higher earner.
Before I go to a lawyer which cost here a fortune I was just looking for some advice.
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Old 06.07.2020, 13:09
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Re: Child maintenance

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After our divorce in 2017, we managed to get joint custody even though the judge was going against all our wishes. In the end I had to pay my ex wife 650.- a month for my then 12 year old son. At the beginning he stayed roughly 50/50 with us which was easy as we lived in adjacent streets. Now my son is 15, his mum has remarried and has a new baby, my son is now living with me. So here where the problem lies. She insists that I still pay her the 650.- and she keeps the 275.- child allowance each month even though my son is with me.
For clarity, the 650.- was solely for my son and not part of any support for my ex wife.
Is this correct what she does or should she accept that I should no longer pay and she should also pay me the Kinderzulage?
One person suggested that she should now actually pay me 650.- per month
Speak to a lawyer... it may cost more but it will also give you far more peace of mind. A fact-checking consultation like this should also not be so complex that they would need to charge you too much time.
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Old 06.07.2020, 13:30
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Re: Child maintenance

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A child of 15 can choose where they lives, either the mother or the father. Previously he lived 50\50 with us both. The payment took this into account as I earned more money than his mother and this was fine for me. She needed the money more however now he is living with me full time.
I am also of the mind that we need a new judgement however that cost time and money both of which we do not have (I lost my job 2 months ago after 18 years service).
What I am asking here, has anyone else been in the same situation ? What is the process here in CH ? Logically the it doesn't make sense for me to pay his mother if he lives with me and if we are really being fair and correct, she should pay me to support our son but that I do not want. If I am paying her the money is not being used for our son.
Official documentation that he is living with me ????? I have the divorce papers with joint custody and responsibilties for us both plus the amount of money I should pay as at the time I was the higher earner.
Before I go to a lawyer which cost here a fortune I was just looking for some advice.
Like it or not a new judgement is probably the only way you're going to get her off your back for the payments. And if you've lost your job then yes, she may well have to pay maintenance to you for the child.
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Old 06.07.2020, 14:30
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Re: Child maintenance

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Official documentation that he is living with me ?????
Yes. Where is he registered? Everyone in Switzerland is supposed to live at an address.

If your son's registered address is currently still at his mother's home, and now he has moved out of there and into your home, then you should go down to the municipality, with your and his papers, (and with your son so he, too, can declare it to be the case that he has moved home), and register him as living with you.
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Old 06.07.2020, 14:33
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Re: Child maintenance

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After our divorce in 2017, we managed to get joint custody even though the judge was going against all our wishes. In the end I had to pay my ex wife 650.- a month for my then 12 year old son. At the beginning he stayed roughly 50/50 with us which was easy as we lived in adjacent streets. Now my son is 15, his mum has remarried and has a new baby, my son is now living with me. So here where the problem lies. She insists that I still pay her the 650.- and she keeps the 275.- child allowance each month even though my son is with me.
For clarity, the 650.- was solely for my son and not part of any support for my ex wife.
Is this correct what she does or should she accept that I should no longer pay and she should also pay me the Kinderzulage?
One person suggested that she should now actually pay me 650.- per month
At age 15 the kid should basically be able to decide for himself.

AFAIK the current ruling is valid until after a new ruling, without payback her having to return the money, so the sooner you get a new one the better for you. Subject to your and your ex's financial situation she may well have to pay alimony to you now. The 275.- should be paid to you now anyway.

If your son is eyeing an apprenticeship he'll start earning his own money soon, that may reduce the monetary value of a new verdict, both in terms of amount and duration of usefulness - reaching an agreement soon may be more valuable in such a case than you getting the maximum per month. Conversely, if he's eyeing the academic path the calculation is probably markedly different.

Get the opinion of a lawyer, at least for an assessment and to learn what you can expect based on the legal situation alone. That will help you decide whether an amicable agreement (to be accepted by and ruled valid by a judge) or a full court case is the preferred route.

Last edited by Urs Max; 06.07.2020 at 20:32. Reason: replaced payback to clarify
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Old 07.07.2020, 07:08
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Re: Child maintenance

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Yes. Where is he registered? Everyone in Switzerland is supposed to live at an address.

If your son's registered address is currently still at his mother's home, and now he has moved out of there and into your home, then you should go down to the municipality, with your and his papers, (and with your son so he, too, can declare it to be the case that he has moved home), and register him as living with you.
I remained in the apartment after the divorce and my son is still registered at my address, that never changed.
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Old 07.07.2020, 08:01
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Re: Child maintenance

The OP might wish to speak with an attorney and could obtain pro bono legal advice by searching on "unentgeltliche rechtsauskunft basel". As the basis for child support is likely the Scheidungsurteil, this should be presented to the attorney for review.
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Old 07.07.2020, 12:09
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Re: Child maintenance

Thank you
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Old 07.07.2020, 12:24
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Re: Child maintenance

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True, but not in this case and there lies the problem.
Make an account for your child in his name. Put the money there?
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Old 08.07.2020, 15:35
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Re: Child maintenance

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Make an account for your child in his name. Put the money there?
the divorce papers clearly state that I have to pay my ex wife and as long as she insists on receiving that money I have to pay her otherwise I am breaking the law.
It seems the only option is to go back to court which will cost around 3000.- to 4000.- I've been told.
It would be fantastic to put 925.- every month in all my childrens accounts but thats not realistic is it.
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Old 08.07.2020, 15:47
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Re: Child maintenance

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Make an account for your child in his name. Put the money there?
No, that's definitely not allowed until the child turns 18, and even then only if the child expressly requests that the maintenance money no longer be paid to the parent.
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Old 08.07.2020, 18:30
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Re: Child maintenance

If the son lives 100% with you, it makes absolutely no sense to pay maintenance to the mother. In fact, now she has to pay maintenance to you.
Obviously the "Kindergeld" should also now be claimed by your employer and paid out to you.

As your wife remarried, you own her nothing for herself. That only on the side.

Before you get a lawyer, contact these people maybe? Have them explain the obvious to your ex-wife.

The child maintenance always goes to the person who actually lives with the child (can even be foster-parents). Not to the child directly though, as Tom claimed. Unless the child lives on it's own, which used to happen (I was one of the cases) when age of consent was still 20.
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Old 10.07.2020, 14:15
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Re: Child maintenance

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the divorce papers clearly state that I have to pay my ex wife and as long as she insists on receiving that money I have to pay her otherwise I am breaking the law.
It seems the only option is to go back to court which will cost around 3000.- to 4000.- I've been told.
It would be fantastic to put 925.- every month in all my childrens accounts but thats not realistic is it.
Do you have a lawyer? It seems paying for a few hours of a lawyer's time might solve this, and if you're lucky, would be at the cost of your ex-wife. I can't imagine anyone thinking this situation makes any sense to anyone.

If you're wary of paying for the lawyer, you can try accessing the city BAR service lawyers for free or at reduced cost to determine the easiest way of dealing with it. I know this service is available in Zurich here: https://www.zav.ch/en/fuer-rechtssuc...tsstellen.html , likely also in your city or canton.
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