Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13.07.2020, 13:23
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Koniz
Posts: 26
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
doorslagNL has no particular reputation at present
Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Dear forum members,

I hope everyone is fine and had a chance to enjoy the summer weather. I am in the need of some advice and I am hoping some of you can provide me with some additional information which direction I can follow.

My partner and I are blessed with the upcoming birth of our first child. She is a Swiss nationality and I am Dutch and we are living in Bern. To acknowledge my son in Switzerland I have to provide the Zivilstandsamt Bern-Mittelland my own birth certificate. Now here is where it gets a bit complicated.

I am adopted, 41 years ago born in Indonesia and 3 months after I was born adopted by the most fantastic Dutch parents I could ever wish for. In all the legal adoption documents that I have, and in particular the act of acknowledgement (SURAT KENAL KELAHIRAN), it is stated that at the time of birth there was no legal birth certificate due to the fact that I was not reported/recorded at the local civil office in Bogor. Therefore, it was not possible to apply for a legal birth certificate.

I provided Zivilstandsamt Bern-Mittelland all the documents and last Saturday I received a letter from them that they checked with the Swiss embassy in Jakarta Indonesia. The embassy in Indonesia is simply saying that I need to apply for a birth certificate at the Local Court n Bogor since I can request a copy of there.
Now here it gets frustrating, there is no birth certificate so how on earth are they telling me to request a copy?

I hope that some of you have can provide us with some practical advice, perhaps you were in a similar situation and found a way to work made it work.

Thank you all in advance!

Best regards,

Erwin
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13.07.2020, 13:30
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,039
Groaned at 341 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 11,750 Times in 5,725 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Will check with a friend who had a similar situation (born in Kebayoran), as they had lost most of the registrations there....... and she needed that to get married.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 13.07.2020, 13:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 6,783
Groaned at 60 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 9,630 Times in 3,965 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Here https://books.google.ch/books?id=NF9...ate%22&f=false is the Indonesia Civil Code.

Although it might not deal with your issue directly, it says, in the context of wanting to marry, or of wanting to acknowledge a child, that one must have a birth certificate. But then it goes on to say that, in the absence of a birth certificate, a formal affidavit can be submitted, to be signed by as many people as possible who can testify to the circumstances of the person.

Search within the document for "birth certificate".

I wonder whether that would work, in your case?
Affidavits drawn up and signed by you, your adoptive parents if they are still alive, any description they can give of how they came to adopt you and what they had been told at the time, anyone from an agency in Indonesia if they can be found, anyone who remembers your parents' story of the adoption from where they then lived, any other parents with whom your parents may have kept in touch and who adopted at the same time, etc.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 13.07.2020, 15:03
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,002
Groaned at 156 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 6,229 Times in 2,861 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Quote:
View Post
The embassy in Indonesia is simply saying that I need to apply for a birth certificate at the Local Court n Bogor
I could be completely wrong, but perhaps they are suggesting you need to get a court order as there is not certificate available....

Have you checked with the Indonesia embassy in Switzerland? They are the most likely people to have handle this issue before.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13.07.2020, 15:29
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 11,613
Groaned at 87 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 17,659 Times in 7,846 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Can the Dutch authorities issue a birth certificate?
https://www.denhaag.nl/en/birth-and-...on-certificate

Looks like you (or your parents) would have needed the original birth certificate as well.

PS: What the Swiss are actually asking for is an recently issued birth certificate or a recent court statement that you are unable to get such a certificate. So, yes if the Dutch can not give you one, you must go through all the hurdles to get one from the mentioned court in Indonesia. Or at least provable try to get one.
__________________
"Whoa, careful now. These are dangerous streets for us upper-lower-middle-class types. So avoid eye contact, watch your pocketbook, and suspect everyone."
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 13.07.2020, 15:56
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Quote:
View Post
Can the Dutch authorities issue a birth certificate?
https://www.denhaag.nl/en/birth-and-...on-certificate

Looks like you (or your parents) would have needed the original birth certificate as well.

PS: What the Swiss are actually asking for is an recently issued birth certificate or a recent court statement that you are unable to get such a certificate. So, yes if the Dutch can not give you one, you must go through all the hurdles to get one from the mentioned court in Indonesia. Or at least provable try to get one.
The Dutch cannot help here (And they are not a party involved in this matter) he has to sort this with Switzerland and Indonesia. Either he gets an official Birth certificate, or an official declaration that this cannot be provided including the most official possible replacement like a court order.

In my experience it is easy with special cases to keep on getting frustrated at the desk and telephone and getting a lawyer to resolve this makes live so much easier since they can open much more doors and speak to the people in the position to make exceptions. It should be a lawyer in Indonesia who also on his behalf can get papers from court saving him the travel which alone already should be enough to pay for the lawyer.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 13.07.2020, 17:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 832
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 923 Times in 437 Posts
LuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

If I'm not mistaken, in Holland it's the mother who acknowledges the father of a child. At least that was the case with my two children from my first wife in 1985.

As you are Dutch, maybe the embassy can register you as the father with the mother's consent. The Swiss would then have to accept that document.

I'm not at all sure about this but it just may be a way to solve the problem.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LuganoPirate for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 13.07.2020, 17:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Quote:
View Post
If I'm not mistaken, in Holland it's the mother who acknowledges the father of a child. At least that was the case with my two children from my first wife in 1985.

As you are Dutch, maybe the embassy can register you as the father with the mother's consent. The Swiss would then have to accept that document.

I'm not at all sure about this but it just may be a way to solve the problem.
Does not work like that, if the kid is born in a foreign country he needs the birth certificate of that foreign country to be able to register the kid in the Netherlands. And the Dutch will only deal with the information on that document since it is Switzerland who is appointed to do the check on this.

If OP gets an Indonesian lawyer and explains the story, the lawyer will contact the Swiss Embassy (Or the proper ministry) ask what papers they all need as replacement for the missing brith certificate, and he'll fix those papers in Indonesia and send them to OP or the Swiss government here, than OP has to go to the Swiss office, put some signatures and all is done.

I had another issue with getting registered as a father here, and after a year took a lawyer and after some time that fixed it all.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 13.07.2020, 17:22
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Koniz
Posts: 26
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
doorslagNL has no particular reputation at present
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Everyone, thank you for your time and reactions. This afternoon I received a response from a law firm based in Indonesia. They are offering their services to help me further on that end. roegner, Still curious how your friend was able to get this working.

doropfiz, I will contact a lawyer here in Switzerland to get some more clarification what is possible with an affidavit. And contact the Zivilstandsamt to find out what options are left on the table if I am not able to get a birth certificate. Are they willing to accept an affidavit or a proven document that will confirm that there is no BC.

I am thinking of a similar way of what Luganopirate is suggesting. Acknowledge my son in the Netherlands and with that document legalize acknowledgement here in Switzerland. Not sure if that should work, but tomorrow I will contact the Dutch embassy again.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doorslagNL for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 13.07.2020, 17:25
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Koniz
Posts: 26
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
doorslagNL has no particular reputation at present
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Quote:
Does not work like that, if the kid is born in a foreign country he needs the birth certificate of that foreign country to be able to register the kid in the Netherlands. And the Dutch will only deal with the information on that document since it is Switzerland who is appointed to do the check on this.

If OP gets an Indonesian lawyer and explains the story, the lawyer will contact the Swiss Embassy (Or the proper ministry) ask what papers they all need as replacement for the missing brith certificate, and he'll fix those papers in Indonesia and send them to OP or the Swiss government here, than OP has to go to the Swiss office, put some signatures and all is done.

I had another issue with getting registered as a father here, and after a year took a lawyer and after some time that fixed it all.
Okay, thank you. Disregard the last part of my last message.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doorslagNL for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 13.07.2020, 18:00
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 28,541
Groaned at 1,929 Times in 1,462 Posts
Thanked 33,708 Times in 16,084 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Quote:
View Post
If I'm not mistaken, in Holland it's the mother who acknowledges the father of a child. At least that was the case with my two children from my first wife in 1985.

As you are Dutch, maybe the embassy can register you as the father with the mother's consent. The Swiss would then have to accept that document.

I'm not at all sure about this but it just may be a way to solve the problem.
That could only work if the child were born in NL, not in CH.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13.07.2020, 23:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 6,783
Groaned at 60 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 9,630 Times in 3,965 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Quote:
View Post
..... And contact the Zivilstandsamt to find out what options are left on the table if I am not able to get a birth certificate.
In general, in Switzerland, don't do this contact by mail, unless you have been given specific instructions to do so, or you are already dealing with an individual officer there.

With tricky matters like this, it is much better to go to the relevant government office, in person.

If you speak the local language, great.
If you don't take your own interpreter along with you.

Always take all the papers that you do have.
Never, ever hand in any paper of which you have not first made a copy.

If the person tells you the steps or sets out a procedure, ask them please to write down the name of that procedure, and to print out, for you, the relevant part of the rules/law that cover that, or else to write down the names of the laws and paragraphs. That will empower you, as you read it, later, and discover your options.

Keep notes. The date, the name of the person you saw, who has told you what before now, what this officer says you should do next.

No matter what you are told, and how, just keep being polite, and repeating that you're trying to understand the Swiss system, so you can learn what the Swiss government will accept, from you.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 13.07.2020, 23:31
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 4,156
Groaned at 71 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 3,978 Times in 1,895 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Also, if you are getting no where, maybe your partner could contact your local MP, sometimes that helps in getting impossible situations sorted out.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 13.07.2020, 23:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 6,783
Groaned at 60 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 9,630 Times in 3,965 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice for the acknowledgement of my son

Quote:
View Post
In all the legal adoption documents that I have, and in particular the act of acknowledgement (SURAT KENAL KELAHIRAN), it is stated that at the time of birth there was no legal birth certificate due to the fact that I was not reported/recorded at the local civil office in Bogor. Therefore, it was not possible to apply for a legal birth certificate.

I provided Zivilstandsamt Bern-Mittelland all the documents and last Saturday I received a letter from them that they checked with the Swiss embassy in Jakarta Indonesia. The embassy in Indonesia is simply saying that I need to apply for a birth certificate at the Local Court n Bogor since I can request a copy of there.
Now here it gets frustrating, there is no birth certificate so how on earth are they telling me to request a copy?

I hope that some of you have can provide us with some practical advice, perhaps you were in a similar situation and found a way to work made it work.

Thank you all in advance!

Best regards,

Erwin
I re-read your post, about what you were actually told to do. It occurred to me that perhaps you should do exactly what they say, and submit the application for a birth certificate, with all your documents, including affidavits as suggested above.

Perhaps proof of application counts for something. In Indonesia it is well-known that many children were/are not registered at birth, so perhaps there is already a standard official letter that you will receive, by way of rejecting your application for a birth certificate.

And perhaps that letter will be accepted by the Swiss authorities.

If the Swiss government has told you: "This is what you must do," then just do it. Keep the proof of your application (your registered-letter slip, or a courier's receipt, etc,) to demonstrate that you are following their instructions. If you do receive an Indonesian reply "sorry, no birth certificate can be issued", then take that back to the Swiss office.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adoption, birth, dutch, indonesia, switzerland




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Acknowledgement of paternity Veronel Family matters/health 23 16.06.2020 13:42
Acknowledgement of paternity/Child support - please help vlinder78 Family matters/health 88 10.08.2015 10:06
Need Advice: Where can I find free legal advice and/or help with a renters problem? sa_wills Housing in general 7 07.01.2015 20:39
Advice on finding work - your advice? Lejoker Employment 8 01.02.2011 21:23
Whats best Commission based investment advice or Fee based advice? manouche Finance/banking/taxation 5 24.08.2010 15:53


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0