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  #121  
Old 18.08.2020, 15:40
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Really... you personally know a "few ladies" who all did that within a few weeksof meeting someone? That's either statistically impressive, or you hang around with certain types of women.
lets not kid ourselves, there are women / girls out there, my brother was caught out by one, stupid young girl, older guy with a half decent job, and bob's your uncle she's pregnant within weeks of meeting him, nice flat instead of a council home with her mum.

Of course it all ended horribly with much grief all round, she was young and stupid, he was older and more stupid, it happens.
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  #122  
Old 18.08.2020, 16:02
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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It might not end in divorce, perhaps you'll just bitterly carry on with a sense of resentment for the kids, but when one partner chooses not to work, be it the male, female (or male / male, female / female relationships) it's going to be a tough pill to swallow for the person in the traffic jam at 7.30am each morning on their way to the office.
If that is the price to pay for me never having to do any paper- or housework other than cleaning away my own stuff when I use it, helping with little things like loading/emptying the dishwasher and of course not creating more work by doing childish stuff like throwing used clothes next to the washing hamper rather than in it - totally fine by me.

I would expect the stay at home partner to do a good job though and take it seriously as well as actually dealing with stuff themselves rather than calling me at work because they can't operate the fuse box. This would include that person doing the budget and allocating both of us the same allowance. After all, that person is allowing me to focus on my job and this should mean I can do what is necessary to advance in that job and use the evenings and weekends to recuperate.
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  #123  
Old 18.08.2020, 16:49
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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If that is the price to pay for me never having to do any paper- or housework other than cleaning away my own stuff when I use it, helping with little things like loading/emptying the dishwasher and of course not creating more work by doing childish stuff like throwing used clothes next to the washing hamper rather than in it - totally fine by me.

I would expect the stay at home partner to do a good job though and take it seriously as well as actually dealing with stuff themselves rather than calling me at work because they can't operate the fuse box. This would include that person doing the budget and allocating both of us the same allowance. After all, that person is allowing me to focus on my job and this should mean I can do what is necessary to advance in that job and use the evenings and weekends to recuperate.
which is good news, because as long as your criteria are in agreement with your partner, you have a successful working deal - everyone happy. If you had that agreement and your stay at home partner said would do some of the stuff (the dishwashing and cleaning) but they didnt want to do the fusebox and the money side of it, so you'd have to still do that, how would that make you feel ?
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  #124  
Old 18.08.2020, 17:13
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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which is good news, because as long as your criteria are in agreement with your partner, you have a successful working deal - everyone happy. If you had that agreement and your stay at home partner said would do some of the stuff (the dishwashing and cleaning) but they didnt want to do the fusebox and the money side of it, so you'd have to still do that, how would that make you feel ?
Teach them to fix basic stuff and pay someone to do the paperwork side of it. Which would come out of their allowance. If I'm going to be working a 42+ hour week, they had better find a way to fill their week with roughly the same number of hours of work. And I'm being generous because I also have to commute, which they do not.

I'm starting to think that my overly pragmatic view is yet another reason why I will stay single and am not unhappy about it. That way, I can create and deal with my own mess in the way that I consider correct rather than having to argue with someone over these things
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  #125  
Old 18.08.2020, 17:21
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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lets not kid ourselves, there are women / girls out there, my brother was caught out by one, stupid young girl, older guy with a half decent job, and bob's your uncle she's pregnant within weeks of meeting him, nice flat instead of a council home with her mum.

Of course it all ended horribly with much grief all round, she was young and stupid, he was older and more stupid, it happens.
How is it possible for your brother to have been "caught out" by the woman?
No. Just No. Like every other man, he's in charge of what he does with his ejaculate.
Oh, but as you say, "he was older and more stupid".
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  #126  
Old 18.08.2020, 17:52
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Not really, until society also shifts we will not make any progress.
Maybe your definition of a positive shift differs from other's. Calling it progress is just your effort to frame it in a positive way and to negatively frame any differing opinions.
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Women are expected by many to be the main carer and if they are actually the breadwinner, constantly have to explain this and get stares.
Men are expected to be the breadwinners, and if they are actually the main carers, constantly have to explain and get stares.
So what. Everybody gets those reactions, learn to live with them.
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  #127  
Old 18.08.2020, 17:53
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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lets not kid ourselves, there are women / girls out there, my brother was caught out by one, stupid young girl, older guy with a half decent job, and bob's your uncle she's pregnant within weeks of meeting him, nice flat instead of a council home with her mum.

Of course it all ended horribly with much grief all round, she was young and stupid, he was older and more stupid, it happens.

As you say... 'lets not kid ourselves'... it was as much his fault as hers, a lack of care and responsibility on both their parts.
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  #128  
Old 18.08.2020, 18:11
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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What planet are you on if you think that money doesn't have significance to raising a child? Having enough money to raise a child is critical to their development and happiness. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/caritas...rland/45406358

Interesting article thanks! "About 70% of children affected by poverty in Switzerland grow up in working poor families." Makes me think it's probably easier to divorce and collect alimony if you are poor. Sound brutal, but this does happen. I feel very sad for poor men that would have to deal with this.

E) How will a man the make 2000chf deal with child alimony? Does he get any support and does he get punishment if he cant pay?
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  #129  
Old 18.08.2020, 18:13
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

Referring to an older question as well: A) Can you be send to jail if you refuse to paying alimony?
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  #130  
Old 18.08.2020, 18:29
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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D) How can the cost be 746.400. if the cost to a raising child in Switzlerland is around 180.000. Is this not out of balance? Is there any rational behind this law? https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/raising-a-child_swiss-children-cost-up-to-chf1-000-per-month/38482104

A. probably not, it's a civil debt, not one against the government like a fine
B. there is no number that is correct for all cases. You need to consider the circumstances/assumptions underlying the 746k. However it doesn't get more authoritative than the Federal Court given a certain legal situation.
C. see the Federal Court's reasoning. The assumptions may need adjustment according to the 2nd PR mentioned below.
D. see the assumptions underlying the 746k. You will find that, given that they're estimates, they say more or less the same
E. It depends. If the low income is intentional or caused by his intentional actions (e.g. quit a well-paying job and can't find another one) he'll be treated as if he still had that job (and apply for social help). If it's none of his fault he won't have to pay more than is deemed acceptable. My guess is that he'll probably have to pay what he earns above the threshold of what is considered the minimum in his area.

Hear it from the court directly (language selector at the top). You want to read and understand the bulletins dated 17.05.2018 and 28.09.2018.
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  #131  
Old 18.08.2020, 19:34
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Hear it from the court directly (language selector at the top). You want to read and understand the bulletins dated 17.05.2018 and 28.09.2018.
Thank you.
Mikers, these two might be relevant for your friend to explain to his wife what is considered the norm, by the Swiss Federal Supreme Court.
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  #132  
Old 18.08.2020, 21:24
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Teach them to fix basic stuff and pay someone to do the paperwork side of it. Which would come out of their allowance. If I'm going to be working a 42+ hour week, they had better find a way to fill their week with roughly the same number of hours of work. And I'm being generous because I also have to commute, which they do not.

I'm starting to think that my overly pragmatic view is yet another reason why I will stay single and am not unhappy about it. That way, I can create and deal with my own mess in the way that I consider correct rather than having to argue with someone over these things
You are looking at it the right way IMHO. And yes it's messy. But then you are prepared. It's messy because no one prepares you for just how much work a kid is. Or how you are going to feel about being a parent. Will you love going to work because it gives you freedom or hate it because you feel you are abandong your child? Do you earn enough money that you can have a KITA place? Or how your work will react. Or the new job that suddenly is not so flexible. Or dealing with morning & evening routines when both have to go to work. It's hard. It's a negotiation. It requires understanding for things you never thought because you were never confronted with it and so many variables cannot be controlled/managed. Sickness, traffic, development issues, old parents who could help can no longer, babysitter does not show up on the first day. The list goes on. I have seen it all in our and friends lives. Anyone who tells you it's easy is either lying, superhuman or has been super lucky that all worked out.
The point here is - is it doable? Yes. Is it easy - heck no. Is it worth it? Perhaps - depends on your life goals.
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  #133  
Old 18.08.2020, 21:45
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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How is it possible for your brother to have been "caught out" by the woman?
No. Just No. Like every other man, he's in charge of what he does with his ejaculate.
Oh, but as you say, "he was older and more stupid".
I would say this mentality leads to most prostituition and paid sex i ever seen.

You go out and you pay 400..800 to a escort..whatever. No chance of getting a bill of 100k or more.

Yes, Zurich a city full of golddiggers. Unfortunately they have MBAs or higher education.

The escorts usually are much nicer.
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  #134  
Old 18.08.2020, 22:08
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Yes, Zurich a city full of golddiggers. Unfortunately they have MBAs or higher education.

The escorts usually are much nicer.
Holy **** there are some absolute mysogynistic douchebags on this forum.

Men have been responsible for horrific treatment of women since time immemorial, treating them like breeders, relegating them to household duties, and basically vilifying them for having vaginas. Fast forward to the modern times, where higher education and careers and equality are becoming the norm and there are still weak-minded and insecure guys like you... still not only blaming women for having a vagina, but for being smart enough to not have to take your crap.

Gold diggers exist for a reason... to take advantage of the rich, dumb and superficial guys who think they can still go around treating women like its the 1960's without any consequences.
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  #135  
Old 18.08.2020, 22:17
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Holy **** there are some absolute mysogynistic douchebags on this forum.

Men have been responsible for horrific treatment of women since time immemorial, treating them like breeders, relegating them to household duties, and basically vilifying them for having vaginas. Fast forward to the modern times, where higher education and careers and equality are becoming the norm and there are still weak-minded and insecure guys like you... still not only blaming women for having a vagina, but for being smart enough to not have to take your crap.

Gold diggers exist for a reason... to take advantage of the rich, dumb and superficial guys who think they can still go around treating women like its the 1960's without any consequences.
You are talking about Switzerland right? Where women could only vote after 1992 (Appenzell) or maternity leave started in 21st Century?

My best friend came married from Lisbon. When his wife (same as in Lisbon) started to understand the legal system in Switzerland she discussed with him life support for her and kid. When she started to ask other women she started to ask for a nice car, nice trips.

And yes woman once in Switzerland. they start to dream about support. So tell me how many couples you know where women is PHD or entrepeneurs and her husband is at home taking care of the kids

If you show me 50% yes you are right . I only know men stressed to have a job to pay the bills. This is really old fashioned. Where i come from since 80s both support house, kids, farmland, cars and so on.

For example my mother supports her house on her own. My neighbour, she has her own hair saloon and pay on her own her flat. Many more examples i can give you from my homeland.

Lets go around and check how many women are supporting the husband in Switzerland.

PS: You are being naive and thinking golddigger in one way. Think about it like when wife moves from her country to this country they changed to take advantage of the husband.

I can tell you, if you bother, more than 20 divorces that happened due to this
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  #136  
Old 18.08.2020, 22:22
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Teach them to fix basic stuff and pay someone to do the paperwork side of it. Which would come out of their allowance. If I'm going to be working a 42+ hour week, they had better find a way to fill their week with roughly the same number of hours of work. And I'm being generous because I also have to commute, which they do not.

I'm starting to think that my overly pragmatic view is yet another reason why I will stay single and am not unhappy about it. That way, I can create and deal with my own mess in the way that I consider correct rather than having to argue with someone over these things
Good plan. Especially the allowance bit. In the end shows that a fair deal is what is needed.
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  #137  
Old 18.08.2020, 22:29
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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You go out and you pay 400..800 to a escort..whatever. No chance of getting a bill of 100k or more.
Even if you pay a prostitute to have sex with you, if she then gets pregnant by you and bears your child, you will have all the same responsibilities towards that child as if you had met the woman in any other context.
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  #138  
Old 18.08.2020, 22:39
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Even if you pay a prostitute to have sex with you, if she then gets pregnant by you and bears your child, you will have all the same responsibilities towards that child as if you had met the woman in any other context.
I was just stating the obvious:

"I have been researching and writing about the global sex trade for 20 years and have visited numerous countries around the world to do so. But nowhere have I encountered such normalization of prostitution as I saw in Geneva—not even in Germany or the Netherlands.

Until 2013, it was perfectly legal for johns here to pay for sex with 16-year-old girls."

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/a-...ds-sex-market/
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Old 18.08.2020, 22:46
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

Yes, prostitution exists. Yes, in many countries the laws do not sufficiently protect children and teenagers who slip into, or are forced into, prostitution.

It is still the case, no matter how the girl or woman became pregnant, if she has the child, the man who impregnated her is responsible towards his child. In Switzerland, there really is no room, legally, to imagine that the parents of the child of a prostitue are somehow not to be held responsible to support the child.

Last edited by doropfiz; 20.08.2020 at 00:52. Reason: typo
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  #140  
Old 18.08.2020, 22:46
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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You are talking about Switzerland right? Where women could only vote after 1992 (Appenzell) or maternity leave started in 21st Century?

My best friend came married from Lisbon. When his wife (same as in Lisbon) started to understand the legal system in Switzerland she discussed with him life support for her and kid. When she started to ask other women she started to ask for a nice car, nice trips.

And yes woman once in Switzerland. they start to dream about support. So tell me how many couples you know where women is PHD or entrepeneurs and her husband is at home taking care of the kids

If you show me 50% yes you are right . I only know men stressed to have a job to pay the bills. This is really old fashioned. Where i come from since 80s both support house, kids, farmland, cars and so on.

For example my mother supports her house on her own. My neighbour, she has her own hair saloon and pay on her own her flat. Many more examples i can give you from my homeland.

Lets go around and check how many women are supporting the husband in Switzerland.
During our marriage, it was I who paid the rent. We are now happily divorced. Most couples we know have a pretty balanced way of sharing their responsibilities, meaning both parents work part-time when the kids are small. If one works more outside the house, it does tend to be the father, but I know literally zero stay-at-home mothers with kids who are more than a year old.

Though Switzerland is about a generation behind other European countries in terms of how families live, there are different bubbles, in different regions or professions. There are fewer part-time jobs for bankers or hospital doctors than for teachers, nurses, secretaries or psychologists. When the percentage of women in certain professions increases, that profession usually develops more part-time jobs. In the liberal professions where people often end up self-employed, there are extremely different niches in terms of income, prestige and opportunities for part-time work. Large law firms working for large banks, for example, tend to take on that kind of culture.

At a guess, women with predominantly intrinsic job motivation want to keep working more often than those who mainly work for the money. Sounds like the sector you work in offers primarily extrinsic motivation. Pity.
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