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  #161  
Old 21.08.2020, 19:10
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Ok ok, not fun, just a job. That said, waking up next to a stranger is a choice, too, and such requests may be pretty rare.

However what increased risks of physical harm to escorts have? After all the client is known, there's no anonymity. Got some data to back up your claim?
Well, before COVID-19 became an issue, you already heard about "fun" things like clients secretly removing condoms, clients being rougher than agreed, higher risk of catching an STD, and of course the risk of being raped, sometimes with more than the agreed number of gentlemen being in the hotel room. Back when I assisted on a study on mental health among prostitutes in Zurich, about a quarter mentioned that they had experienced some form of physical violence while engaging in sex work. Of course, if YOU read the study, you will zero in on the fact that a greater percentage experienced violence in civilian life but does that really help your argument?

A further issue is that this study did not include many escorts, it was mostly street workers and those working in clubs/brothels. However, there is an inherent risk of meeting a stranger in a hotel room that they have inhabited before you accessed it. How can you not see that?

Possibly more insidious because many people don't understand just how frightening it is: Clients developing a mad crush and starting to stalk the lady, I know of one case where they wrote an email to her at work (the lady in question had a normal day job after she finished her studies and hadn't quite managed to adapt to a normal wage yet ). The guy had somehow figured out her real name and where she worked and because large companies have a pretty standard email format, he figured out her address.

Being secretly filmed is another danger, with tiny cameras available for not a lot of money or even a cleverly hidden mobile phone, the ladies never know if they will end up on porn sites for the world to see. And once the film is there, it will never, EVER go away. So if said lady ever wanted to do something like be a politician or take on a leading role in a company, this would reappear and destroy any chance she has. I bet you are thinking "well, serves her right", or is this finally the point where your sense of "women have unfair advantages" stops?
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  #162  
Old 21.08.2020, 19:22
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

Thank you, greenmount and Kittster.

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This is such a sordid, extremely damaging - physically and mentally - occupation that I can't for the life of me understand how some people think these women have fun. Even those who are not coerced into prostitution are exposing themselves to great risks.

I get that Urs Max is thinking of the "high-end" of the "profession" and he assumes escorts are doing it for fun, but is it really the case? I don't think so.
I think for some, it's a schoolboy fantasy that the prostitute is really sex-hungry and finds them irresistable and transports them into a mutual seventh heaven so that they become her favourite client, or even marry her, taking her away from all that, and they live happily ever after.

And for some, it is simply being naive, having never needed to cross the tracks to see what unfortunate troubles are happening on the other side. And an immense belief that free choice abounds and that everyone, anywhere, can always overcome any hindrances to bettering their own circumstances, no matter how abominably they have been treated. That's a wilful blindness about the darks sides of society.
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  #163  
Old 21.08.2020, 19:22
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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...destroy any chance she has. I bet you are thinking "well, serves her right", or is this finally the point where your sense of "women have unfair advantages" stops?
I have to add to that that the stories told to me by the male prostitute I talked with, were not much different from those of the females. His clients were mostly men, but occasionally women.

It seems that the notion of being a client of a prostitute, or having the money, power or time to do so, or being excited by the risk is something that fewer women go for, although some women definitely do consume sex this way, from male and from female prostitutes.
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  #164  
Old 21.08.2020, 19:27
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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That's a wilful blindness about the darks sides of society.
Only that the dark side which was not quite visible or of any interest to normal people has started to get more and more attention lately because people have started to find out about all sort of cases and circumstances and that concern, empathy and outrage is not going away anytime soon.
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  #165  
Old 21.08.2020, 19:35
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Being secretly filmed is another danger, with tiny cameras available for not a lot of money or even a cleverly hidden mobile phone, the ladies never know if they will end up on porn sites for the world to see. And once the film is there, it will never, EVER go away. So if said lady ever wanted to do something like be a politician or take on a leading role in a company, this would reappear and destroy any chance she has.
You're not very familiar with Italian politicians, I take it?



Tom
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  #166  
Old 21.08.2020, 19:38
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

You mean bunga bunga parties? Or how the old sleazy Berlusconi has called it?
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  #167  
Old 21.08.2020, 19:42
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

I'm not sure I agree with the "it is always terrible" sentiment. The circumstances of the women in the study were largely in line with that view, I kind of wondered if there was a selection bias. However, I have met women who saw it as a very pragmatic way to make good money on their terms and who did actually enjoy it. One of them wrote a whole diploma paper on this an related topics in order to get her diploma from a university here in Zurich.

Some men have exactly the view voiced by the OP, they don't want any messy nonsense to kill their vibe. If you work 60 hour weeks, you will struggle to meet someone and it is a very pragmatic way of still enjoying physical contact.

If the woman chooses this job and gets to keep most if not all of the money, why do we automatically have to assume she is a victim? Yes, she will have to be smart to stay safe and maybe even turn right around if she doesn't like the vibe of a client. In order to have this choice, there can't be a pimp or drug addiction there that makes money more important than safety. If you look at ladies like Alice Little, it is very clear that she is exactly where she wants to be doing exactly what she wants to do. Studies have found that making prostitution illegal is pretty pointless and also appears to correlate with more violence towards prostitutes. Also, where does one draw the line? Is an older gentleman paying for a younger woman's apartment and other costs in exchange for a few evenings of company each month prostitution or simply a mutually beneficial relationship?

As long as she doesn't trap him by getting pregnant and he doesn't distract her from her education or whatever other aims she is pursuing in order to one day be self-sufficient, I see no problem with this.
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  #168  
Old 21.08.2020, 20:39
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Also, where does one draw the line?
I'm using "her" here, altough I have posted above that there are also male prostitutes, though fewer.

The line is anything that makes it less than a free business transaction between two equal business partners.

The line is anything that binds her into the system such that she is not completely free to stop providing ther services, or to provide them only elsewhere, and/or to leave, whether temporarily or permanently, by her own free decision, without having to fear dangerous repercussions to herself or anyone she knows, if she does leave.

This includes such things as, i.a.
  • seizing her legal papers
  • any phyical force
  • any forced or cultivated drug habit
  • any kind of authority or pressure exercised over her (by a pimp, a wealthy man keeping her, a guard) such that she is called upon to perform or submit to acts she does not want to participate in, such that she cannot avoid them
  • her not being completely in charge of all of her own earnings
  • her not being fully free to be in touch with her friends and family by whatever means she chooses, including being free to make new friends
  • her not being allowed to see service-providers as she chooses
  • her not being in charge of her own formal and bureaucratic identity
  • her not having time off, to do something completely different
  • her not having access to proper food and medical care
  • her being kept from sleep
  • her being threatened, in her own safety, or that of her friends and family or colleages, if she leaves
  • her being pressurised not to leave by being told that the pimp or client can't live without her
  • any acts of sabotage to prevent her from getting a job or a flat for which she applied, or a ticket out
  • deliberately preventing her from gaining access to opportunities for education and to earn her living in a different way, or to return to her family, including but not only belying the opportunities that she could have, or by unfairly persuading her that she has no chance of a different live, elsewhere.
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  #169  
Old 21.08.2020, 21:22
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

What you describe is slavery or at the very least serfdom and while being forced to prostitute yourself is particularly extreme, there are household staff and people working in the tourism sector who are in similar situations.

All I could advise is for men (or women) to choose their provider carefully and be aware that if there is a lot on offer for little money, it may be because it will not end up with the person doing the work.
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  #170  
Old 21.08.2020, 21:36
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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You mean bunga bunga parties?
No.

They are both former porn stars who became politicians (and started a party together in the early '90s), the one on the right even a member of parliament for four years, '87-91!

Tom
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  #171  
Old 28.08.2020, 08:29
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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Sadly, nobody here is representing the perspective of the children who are either conceived or born as a result of naivety, stupidity or malicious intent.

This is one of my big fears, many people are very focussed on what they can gain and have a predetorial mindset (brainwashed from society). Most people don't reflect on the bigger picture and how the wellbeing of the child is most important. Meaning the child need healthy stable inviroment and not just money and singlemother hood. No amount of money can replace two stable parents and i think todays society forgets this.
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  #172  
Old 28.08.2020, 09:00
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It is on my mind. They need to be provided for, have somebody have their backs. Aside of the natural entitlement for a loving, emotionally secure home. OP just seems to completely avoid that particular human need, it looks like some weird accounting school assignment. Whether one goes to jail when not taking care of one's child...aside of moral purgatory - OP, call a legal service. That one phonecall will not cost you that much.

So do you go to jail? Do anyone know?
I will update the thread, when i find the answer. I just don't want to be trapped by a system i find it unfair. I want to have an escape plan if both mother and government goes completely against me.

Let's say you get 3 kids and the mother turns crazy when all are born (does happen). If she's particulary crazy she can financially screw you for life.

Ps. I do know 99% of women are not like that but that crazy 1% have scary much power to screw up your life. Love can turn into hate very fast as we all know. There are many examples of men/women getting ruined because of this.

Regarding jail can something like this happen in Switzerland. This is a good example of my nightmare scenario, where you can get destroyed in a distorted legal system:

So many crazy laws most people are not aware of so i think it should be more transparent, what's all the steps/consequences. And can the state even take your freedome?

Pay child support for a kid that is not yours or go to jail :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9fnRnEcr0

Father Breaks Down Crying After Learning His Evil Ex-Wife Had Him Charged With A Felony :
https://youtu.be/_x_F6SwM3bA

Example how far some women will go: Mother goes to jail for Parental Alienation :
https://youtu.be/hRoSUOB8H9k

Last edited by roegner; 28.08.2020 at 10:28. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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  #173  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:14
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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[Paranoid, misogynist ramblings]
It may be Friday but... No. Not going to bother.
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Old 28.08.2020, 13:43
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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So do you go to jail? Do anyone know?
I will update the thread, when i find the answer. I just don't want to be trapped by a system i find it unfair. I want to have an escape plan if both mother and government goes completely against me.

Let's say you get 3 kids and the mother turns crazy when all are born (does happen). If she's particulary crazy she can financially screw you for life.

Ps. I do know 99% of women are not like that but that crazy 1% have scary much power to screw up your life. Love can turn into hate very fast as we all know. There are many examples of men/women getting ruined because of this.

Regarding jail can something like this happen in Switzerland. This is a good example of my nightmare scenario, where you can get destroyed in a distorted legal system:

So many crazy laws most people are not aware of so i think it should be more transparent, what's all the steps/consequences. And can the state even take your freedome?

Pay child support for a kid that is not yours or go to jail :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9fnRnEcr0

Father Breaks Down Crying After Learning His Evil Ex-Wife Had Him Charged With A Felony :
https://youtu.be/_x_F6SwM3bA

Example how far some women will go: Mother goes to jail for Parental Alienation :
https://youtu.be/hRoSUOB8H9k


You need a GUN, man. No one is going to take your money if you have a REALLY BIG GUN! And a fast car.

These women, they're out to get you, can't you just see it ? the way they are all looking at you as you walk down the street. Talking, whispering, PLOTTING.

get a huge weapon, its the only way to protect yourself from THE WOMEN WHO WILL TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY!
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  #175  
Old 30.08.2020, 19:24
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

Any valuable information out there?
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  #176  
Old 06.09.2020, 22:34
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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You need a GUN, man. No one is going to take your money if you have a REALLY BIG GUN! And a fast car.

These women, they're out to get you, can't you just see it ? the way they are all looking at you as you walk down the street. Talking, whispering, PLOTTING.

get a huge weapon, its the only way to protect yourself from THE WOMEN WHO WILL TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY!
... and people wonder why men don't speak about their issues. "Why didn't you say something??!!??"

Sure, this is Ontario, still it shows that OP is well advised to inform himself. Jump to 19:29 for the simply misandristic part.

It's no wonder some men see no way out and kill themselves. And take that devil with them while they're at it.
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Old 06.09.2020, 22:50
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Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich

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So do you go to jail? Do anyone know?
I will update the thread, when i find the answer. I just don't want to be trapped by a system i find it unfair. I want to have an escape plan if both mother and government goes completely against me.

Let's say you get 3 kids and the mother turns crazy when all are born (does happen). If she's particulary crazy she can financially screw you for life.

Ps. I do know 99% of women are not like that but that crazy 1% have scary much power to screw up your life. Love can turn into hate very fast as we all know. There are many examples of men/women getting ruined because of this.

Regarding jail can something like this happen in Switzerland. This is a good example of my nightmare scenario, where you can get destroyed in a distorted legal system:

So many crazy laws most people are not aware of so i think it should be more transparent, what's all the steps/consequences. And can the state even take your freedome?

Pay child support for a kid that is not yours or go to jail :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH9fnRnEcr0

Father Breaks Down Crying After Learning His Evil Ex-Wife Had Him Charged With A Felony :
https://youtu.be/_x_F6SwM3bA

Example how far some women will go: Mother goes to jail for Parental Alienation :
https://youtu.be/hRoSUOB8H9k
The basics are covered on this link here:

The reality is there are certain norms but the reality is it depends!

Yes, you can go to jail as if you quit your job it can be seen as abandonment, see link above.

It also depends on the other party if they put the children first too & don't become vindictive.

All to often the children suffer terribly from divorce
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