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-   -   How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich) (https://www.englishforum.ch/family-matters-health/299586-how-much-alimony-will-unmarried-father-approx-have-pay-switzlerland-z-rich.html)

christianvonmoos 13.08.2020 10:26

How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich)
 
How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzerland (Zürich).
I was trying to get a simple estimated number, it seems very high for married couple but unmarried i can't find any clear numbers.

My impression it common in Europe that if your not married you have very little obligations but not sure if Swiss law work like that. The below article suggest otherwise. (i don't fully understand the German)

Can a woman get a child with her partner without the partners consent and now expect large payments for 18years? Do they differ between one-nightstand, long-term relationship, living together, signing cohabitation? I have been at all three stages but not sure what my financial obligations are in-case my girlfriend leaves.

I thought this would be very important for fathers and mothers to know since many people don't get married before kids now a days.

Ps. Since i don't always work in Switzerland and spend years in low income countries so paying 1-2000chf would literally be more than my salary if i don't live in Switzerland. So far it's my impression Switzerland makes it very hard & expensive to have kids in general, so just wanted to confirm.


https://www.familienrechtsinfo.ch/unterhalt/alimente/

Allgemeines zu den Alimenten in der Schweiz
Nicht nur eine gute Beziehung zu beiden Elternteilen ist wichtig, sondern auch eine finanzielle Absicherung durch Alimente. Das Kind hat ein Recht auf Alimente in der Schweiz und dies ist unabhängig vom Zivilstand der Eltern.

Im Jahr 2017 fand eine Gesetzesänderung statt, die für Gleichberechtigung für Kinder von ledigen und verheirateten Eltern schaffte. Zuvor wurden Kinder von verheirateten Eltern finanziell bessergestellt, weil das hauptsächlich betreuende Elternteil im Fall einer Scheidung Anspruch auf Unterhalt hat.

Bei unverheirateten Eltern war es bisher so, dass ein Elternteil Alimente in der Schweiz bezahlen musste und die Mutter für den Rest aufkommen musste. Seit Gesetzesänderung gibt es den zivilstandsunabhängigen Betreuungsunterhalt.

Hierbei handelt es sich um einen Betrag, welchen der hauptsächlich betreuende Elternteil für die Zeit erhält, die er mit der Betreuung des Kindes aufbringt und nicht einer Erwerbstätigkeit nachgehen kann.

Wächst ein Kind bei einem Elternteil auf, so hat der andere Elternteil mit Unterhaltszahlungen seiner Verpflichtung nachzukommen.

aSwissInTheUS 13.08.2020 11:36

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by christianvonmoos (Post 3206272)
How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzerland (Zürich).

Same as an married one. According to the German text you quoted the financial obligations are the same. There are no fixed numbers as the actual amount also depends on the fathers income and the child situation. But there is the so called Grundbetrag which is a default which can adjusted up or down. The Grundbetrag is CHF 400 till age 10, CHF 600 till age 18.

This is mostly only important if the the parents to not live together.

It is also not the woman who can expect a high payment, the alimony is for the child. Your financial obligation will also not end at age of 18, but when the child finished its primary education. This includes university. Depending on if the adult child lives on its own, in a share flat, or with the other parent the Grundbetrag can be from CHF 850 up to CHF 1200.

https://www.binderlegal.ch/fileadmin...ni_2017_1_.pdf

If you fear high unexpected expenses due to a non planned child always and everytime use condoms (also protects against STDs) and get the tubes cut.

Kittster 13.08.2020 13:38

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
A heck of a lot more expensive than consistently using condoms.

Also, if you are considering the possibility of your sexual partners trying to land you with a child that you don't actually want, maybe change your approach to picking them?

NotAllThere 13.08.2020 13:47

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Even if someone is deceived into parenthood, the responsibility for the child doesn't disappear. The principle is that children are entitled to have a relationship with both parents.

Medea Fleecestealer 13.08.2020 16:46

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce-and-mai...contributions/

https://www.ch.ch/en/cohabiting/

amogles 13.08.2020 17:13

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3206406)
Even if someone is deceived into parenthood, the responsibility for the child doesn't disappear. The principle is that children are entitled to have a relationship with both parents.

This I think is the bigger problem . Guy at work is having difficulty getting access to his kid because the mother is consistently finding excuses to keep him away and he is spending a fortune on lawyers . But withholding alimony is not a legitimate means to enforce his right. The two rights are fully disconnected .

Brian1985 13.08.2020 20:41

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
If a man rapes a woman and she falls pregnant, she is 100% entitled to terminate the baby. If a woman stops taking the pill but doesn't inform her partner, she is 100% entitled to keep the baby and demand child support. That's feminism and equality for you in the 21st century.

doropfiz 13.08.2020 20:47

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian1985 (Post 3206545)
If a man rapes a woman and she falls pregnant, she is 100% entitled to terminate the baby. If a woman stops taking the pill but doesn't inform her partner, she is 100% entitled to keep the baby and demand child support. That's feminism and equality for you in the 21st century.

There is no equality, or even similarity, between the acts that you are comparing.

Rape, by anyone to anyone, is an act of violence and humiliation. Most people who are raped carry the emotional damage for a long time after the event.

Not taking the pill and not informing a partner (when she has previously said she was, indeed, on the pill) is an act of deceipt.

Not using the contraceptive means available, if one does not want to become the parent of a child, is irresponsible. This is true for both men and women.

MusicChick 13.08.2020 20:52

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian1985 (Post 3206545)
If a man rapes a woman and she falls pregnant, she is 100% entitled to terminate the baby. If a woman stops taking the pill but doesn't inform her partner, she is 100% entitled to keep the baby and demand child support. That's feminism and equality for you in the 21st century.

I am not going to dissect your post semantically, but rather technically: a rapist doesn't ask her if she wants to be a parent, either :rolleyes: If a woman stops taking a pill and doesn't ask him if he wants to be a parent, he still has a choice to use prophylactics. Why rely on her if he diesn't want to parent? This isn't about feminism but about not being lazy (or smitten) to cover up.

christianvonmoos 13.08.2020 23:57

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3206320)
Same as an married one. According to the German text you quoted the financial obligations are the same. There are no fixed numbers as the actual amount also depends on the fathers income and the child situation. But there is the so called Grundbetrag which is a default which can adjusted up or down. The Grundbetrag is CHF 400 till age 10, CHF 600 till age 18.

This is mostly only important if the the parents to not live together.

It is also not the woman who can expect a high payment, the alimony is for the child. Your financial obligation will also not end at age of 18, but when the child finished its primary education. This includes university. Depending on if the adult child lives on its own, in a share flat, or with the other parent the Grundbetrag can be from CHF 850 up to CHF 1200.

https://www.binderlegal.ch/fileadmin...ni_2017_1_.pdf

If you fear high unexpected expenses due to a non planned child always and everytime use condoms (also protects against STDs) and get the tubes cut.


Thank you very much. So that would be 1200chf * 12m * 18y = 259200CHF until 18years old assuming the child get an education in time. This is alot of money for a person living/working in Africa. Can i simply refuse to pay if it's far outside my financial means or will i get legally chased? I'm a little scared of finacial ruine.

I'm aware of the condom, thanks. But most girls prefer it without when you have longterm relationship in my personal experience so far. I am a little scared a woman might quit the pill and make a child eventhough i do not agree to it. And i do not wanna cover the cost if a woman decides to makes a child against my will. I find this to be a breach on my personal freedom. Can you say modern finacial prison.
(in the end i will likely support the kid if it happens becuase i feel responsibility but i don't want the government/lawyers chasing me for 18years for me being a human)

I understand if woman want finacial gaurantee, thats what we have the marrige for. But i don't think it's fair for normal relationship that might not last.

One day i want a child but i want it with a woman i trust and where we both agree on when and how. I have several friends the had a girlfriend suddenly make a child and left (just wanting the sperm) and then coming back for alimony later, so a bit afraid of this.

Any additional experience and advice is appriciated.

Ps. I don't mean to offend anyone, as i know it's a touchy subject. We need to take good care of our women, i fully agree since it's not easy to raise a child. It's a big burden women cary in our society. But individual freedom is also important. Bringing someone in financial ruine is taking away your freedome. And i think people know having a child without a partner agreeing can be bad for the child in many other ways the financial, so i wish i didn't happen so much. But it unfortunately does because it's in our nature to reproduce.

boinker 14.08.2020 00:14

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Why don't you just do what you can to make certain your girlfriend doesn't get pregnant?!

boinker 14.08.2020 00:18

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
And though you say you don't mean to be offensive, it is a bit offensive to say that women want marriage for financial security. I think the doubts and worries you have can't really be controlled. You either roll the dice or make sure you're smart enough to do what it takes to prevent getting yourself into a situation you don't want to be in.

HickvonFrick 14.08.2020 00:27

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boinker (Post 3206608)
And though you say you don't mean to be offensive, it is a bit offensive to say that women want marriage for financial security. I think the doubts and worries you have can't really be controlled. You either roll the dice or make sure you're smart enough to do what it takes to prevent getting yourself into a situation you don't want to be in.

A lot of people (especially but not exclusively women) want marriage in part for financial security, and that is not something to be ashamed of. My missus made it clear when we were getting serious that she might not want to go back to work after having kids and that was something I had to be fine with (I'm perfectly happy either way). After kid 1 she still hasn't decided. A lot of women are in a vulnerable position after childbirth- either they aren't working or have to pay extremely high childcare costs. Obviously some have large resources behind them but for those who don't support from their partner is crucial, and marriage is a way of formalising that. It's not that she's helpless and I'm a big strong caveman, but that really she needs to make sure I'll be there as it's too much for one person to handle.

doropfiz 14.08.2020 00:32

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Each adult who is legally capable of taking decisions bears the full responsibility for all his/her bodily fluids and functions, and for cleaning up after themselves, and must take responsibility for the consequences of what he/she has done with them. You have to blow your own nose and dry your own tears, wash off your own sweat, deal with going to the toilet, women have to deal with their menstrual blood and you have to deal with your ejaculate.

Irrespective of
  • what any woman tells you about whatever kind of contraception she is using or not using, and
  • irrespective of whether or not she is trustworthy, and
  • without regard or whether or not you think/feel you can believe her, and
  • no matter whether she does or does not want to get pregnant, and
  • quite apart from how much sexual drive you have, and
  • no matter how much she invites you to have sex with her,
  • quite apart from how long you've known her, and
  • no matter the legal relationship between the two of you
it is still always the case that:
  • your sperm cells are yours,
  • they developed in your body,
  • they can exit your body, and you have a large degree of (though admittedly not full) control over when you allow yourself to ejaculate,
  • your ejaculate is fully your responsibility,
  • and you alone are in charge of where you put it,
  • including whether or not you put it somewhere, or take care to avoid putting it anywhere, where it could result in a pregnancy.
In short, if you do not want to have a child, or if the time is not right for you, then you take the necessary steps to avoid risking conception. Your options are:
  • don't have sex at all,
  • be more creative when having sex so that what you enjoy together does not involve getting sperm anywhere near the woman's vagina,
  • have sex with men, instead, or just by yourself, or with women who are medically unable to conceive, for example those who have had their tubes tied or had a hysterectomy (that you're 100% sure about) or post-menopausal women
  • use a condom, and/or
  • have a vasectomy.

aSwissInTheUS 14.08.2020 00:36

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by christianvonmoos (Post 3206604)
Thank you very much. So that would be 1200chf * 12m * 18y = 259200CHF until 18years old assuming the child get an education in time. T

:confused: More of the like of:
10 x 12 x 400 + 8 x 12 x 600 + 2 x 12 x 850 = 126'000

First education finished at 20 and always living with a parent. A very normal case when the child does a 4 years apprenticeship. Btw. the child can also be with the father in that case it would be the mother which has to pay alimony. Best would be if the child has both parents equally and at the same home.

christianvonmoos 14.08.2020 11:15

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3206612)
:confused: More of the like of:
10 x 12 x 400 + 8 x 12 x 600 + 2 x 12 x 850 = 126'000

First education finished at 20 and always living with a parent. A very normal case when the child does a 4 years apprenticeship. Btw. the child can also be with the father in that case it would be the mother which has to pay alimony. Best would be if the child has both parents equally and at the same home.


Ok thanks, i might have been to pessimistic. Still a good sum though.

doropfiz 14.08.2020 12:42

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by christianvonmoos (Post 3206711)
Ok thanks, i might have been to pessimistic. Still a good sum though.

The support of a child goes on for longer if they don't do an apprenticeship (upon which ASITUS's calculation was based) but instead study at university. Then the parent can be obliged to support them until they are 26.

smilerbaker 14.08.2020 13:07

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
given the woman has chosen this loser as a father I don't think she had financial security in mind

Kittster 14.08.2020 13:13

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by christianvonmoos (Post 3206604)
Ps. I don't mean to offend anyone, as i know it's a touchy subject. We need to take good care of our women, i fully agree since it's not easy to raise a child. It's a big burden women cary in our society. But individual freedom is also important.

Then maybe start by not expecting them take hormones without any medical necessity? You know how prescription medication usually has a long list of "possible side effects" on its packaging notice? Well, for hormonal birth control, it more a case of "very likely side effects" and they actually include things like depression, migraines and deep vein thrombosis. The likelihood increases for smokers, overweight women, those over the age of 35 and, oh yeah, those that have some genetic predisposition that they probably know nothing about. Yes, most women are fine for the first few years of taking birth control and only see the benefits but as time goes on, the side effects start appearing.

Those lucky ladies that have no issues will probably be outraged at my statements because if you have no problems, it really is a useful tool and you should absolutely have the choice to use it. But "the choice to" is key here, it is still wrong for guys to assume their partner will just take the pill and carry the sole burden of the couple's family planning, including potential health risks. That still doesn't change the key point: if you are not sure about a person's motives behind having sex with you, please do not have sex with that person! Especially not unprotected sex :rolleyes:

And finally, while this may be down to a selection bias in my sample of people I know, in my twenty years of being an adult in Switzerland and knowing a pretty large number of people, I only know of a single case where your scenario actually happened. It was a long-term relationship where the male partner was earning an executive salary and had started an affair with a younger co-worker. The girlfriend somehow found out but didn't say anything; she decided to get pregnant to tie him to her permanently. Whether the motivation was financial or emotional is not clear, it could also be both.


Come to think of it: If you are not currently financially stable, why would a woman try to pull this off in the first place? If you are boinking women that stupid, you really need to raise your standards.

Urs Max 14.08.2020 19:34

Re: How much alimony will unmarried father approx have to pay in Switzlerland (Zürich
 
The change in 2017 determined that there's no longer a difference between unmarried and married couples when it comes to alimony for the child's caregiver. The Federal Court (FC) has ruled in 2018 that the minimum amount is the "ExistenzMinimum", the minimum to live here and pay for rent, helath insurance, etc. These amounts for child and caregiver will vary somewhat by Canton, but not by that much.

In the above case from 2018, a couple in their early 30ies with one 4yr old child, the FC ruled that the child gets 2070 CHF, the mother (who appears to be the fulltime caregiver) 1600 in the first year.

In OP's case, who's often away hence 100% care by the mother, that's ...
10 * 12 * (2070 + 1600)
6 * 12 * (2070 + 800)
4 * 12 * (2070 + 0)
=====
746'400
=====

... until the child has turned 20. And even this assumes that the mother does work 50% from the child's age 10-15, and 100% afterwards. If she pretends to be unable to land a job, which is trivial to get accepted, the amount increases to 810'000. In OP's case, who appears to be often abroad for long periods there's little chance to get any kind of reduction of the alimony by taking over a part of the childcare.

Obviously there's a clear incentive to not move in together and milk the father some more when the mother finds a new lover.

The father has zero decision rights, but bears full financial responsibility even if the child is born against his will. To deny this is burying the head in the sand.

And even today it's clearly accepted if the mother keeps alienating the child from the father more, the horror stories abound where the KESB fully supports those cu.nts.


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