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Old 17.08.2020, 04:06
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Children turning 18 - staying with parents

My eldest son will be 18 next March and wondering how children becoming adults here in Swiss works?

Yes, I know it might seem a bit of a strange question but bear with me...

My son has 3 years left for doing his apprenticeship and would like to then study further. I am happy for him to keep living with me for a few years (despite the current battle of getting him to help with any chores in the apartment).

A mutuel friend suggested that maybe he wanted to go into student accommodation, might do him some good to socialise more and be a bit more independent. Story gets a bit more complex as my son then accuses me of wanting to abandon him, how could I abandon a child Assured him this is not the case, however as he was becoming an adult soon, then I would like that he cleans up after himself.

During a discussion of applying for Swiss for all three of my children my -ex- declared that she will not have the other two living with her once they reach 18. My other son is 16 so not far behind the eldest and daughter 14.

Can she ask them to leave once they are 18?

This has thrown me into a bit of a flat spin as I might end up with all three of them living with me but as adults, which actually I would be okay with, if they help out with a few chores. (just keep their bedrooms clean & tidy and clean up after themselves if they cook.)

I briefly spoke with my other two children and not sure what their choice will be once the day comes, neither are they ...

Assume if they go and live in student accommodation that the parents have to pay.

Also as my children turn 18 they have much the same rights as me & I have less over them (assume) ..

My other concern is that I have just over five years to retirement and the divorce has financially destroyed me and not sure I can afford to live here once that day comes Certainly something I need to start thinking about ...
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Old 17.08.2020, 06:25
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

I’m sure I read something on here the other day, that parents must support their children here until they are finished with their education up to apprenticeship/Bachelors level.

Be aware that student accom is not always available year round.

I guess if the kids want to remain living with you once they are working, you could do what my mum did to me and make them contribute financially to the bills and rent. I wasn’t happy but it was cheaper than living alone so I had no choice
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Old 17.08.2020, 06:46
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

I assume they're here under family reunification which for EU nationals considers them your dependents financially until they're 21.

https://www.ch.ch/en/family-reunification-eu-efta

Sounds like your son may be afraid of "losing" his other parent which may be why he's not inclined to leave the family home.
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Old 17.08.2020, 08:25
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

I used to think that come 18, I'd encourage them to move out. But after a while, you kind of get fond of them.

I've two kids at home. One is 25, the other 23. They've still got two years of education to go. We don't charge them rent (what's the point?, they have no income). But they do housework, gardening and generally help around the home.

If you get on well with your kids, it's not an problem. If they're above 18 and your rowing about what they wear, what time they get in etc. then maybe they need to move out. But you're still responsible for them.
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Old 17.08.2020, 09:10
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

You sound like a kind father. It is not always educational to let kids abuse the kindness. If they do not chip in (it doesn't have to be financial, chores, etc..), they do not earn the right to stay in any community, including their parents'. Your ex probably knows why she wants them out - look at the one you are already taking care of. You and her share the same burden. It was a matter of my pride to earn my own living since I was an early teen. They need to feel that being a good person starts with not sponging off anyone.

We followed your horrid divorce stories here. Good for you providing for your children, it is far from automatic.
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Old 17.08.2020, 09:19
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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You sound like a kind father. It is not always educational to let kids abuse the kindness. If they do not chip in (it doesn't have to be financial, chores, etc..), they do not earn the right to stay in any community, including their parents'. Your ex probably knows why she wants them out - look at the one you are already taking care of. You and her share the same burden. It was a matter of my pride to earn my own living since I was an early teen. They need to feel that being a good person starts with not sponging off anyone.

We followed your horrid divorce stories here. Good for you providing for your children, it is far from automatic.
I pretty much grew up from the age of 5 at boarding school, rarely saw my parents, started work on a farm when I was 15 and went into the military when I was 16 so never had my parents around & definitely no one was there to support me, so I understand where you are coming from.

A few people have told me that times are different now for this generation. I admit I have been sleep walking a little bit just trying to deal with the difficult situation of the divorce but now want to at least understand what the future might be like?
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Old 17.08.2020, 09:13
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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I used to think that come 18, I'd encourage them to move out. But after a while, you kind of get fond of them.

I've two kids at home. One is 25, the other 23. They've still got two years of education to go. We don't charge them rent (what's the point?, they have no income). But they do housework, gardening and generally help around the home.

If you get on well with your kids, it's not an problem. If they're above 18 and your rowing about what they wear, what time they get in etc. then maybe they need to move out. But you're still responsible for them.
Yes, I am responsible until they finish their education, so in theory that could be another 12 years for my daughter, I was told by my lawyer it ends when they are 26 legally if they are still studying ...

I had all three of them staying with me for four weeks during the holiday. It was okay but I became exhausted as I was doing virtually everything for them as I always have plus I was working from home most of the time, so exhausting.

Asking them to help out with a few chores and if they could do that, it would be fine...

I am also left a bit shocked by the announcement by my -ex- as pretty much made life hell for the children by dragging out the divorce and mainly citing the interests of the children & now wants to dispense with them as soon as they are 18 .... she told me that they can go visit her when it is good for her but not stay ...

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Old 17.08.2020, 09:42
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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Yes, I am responsible until they finish their education, so in theory that could be another 12 years for my daughter, I was told by my lawyer it ends when they are 26 legally if they are still studying ...

I had all three of them staying with me for four weeks during the holiday. It was okay but I became exhausted as I was doing virtually everything for them as I always have plus I was working from home most of the time, so exhausting.

Asking them to help out with a few chores and if they could do that, it would be fine...

I am also left a bit shocked by the announcement by my -ex- as pretty much made life hell for the children by dragging out the divorce and mainly citing the interests of the children & now wants to dispense with them as soon as they are 18 .... she told me that they can go visit her when it is good for her but not stay ...

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well you can kick them out and support their rentals. i guess the ex- should be paying you some rental too...

in your position, i'd kick them out at least for a while until they learn to function as human beings

it's warm outside, you can kick them out and give them a tent.
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Old 17.08.2020, 09:06
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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I assume they're here under family reunification which for EU nationals considers them your dependents financially until they're 21.

https://www.ch.ch/en/family-reunification-eu-efta

Sounds like your son may be afraid of "losing" his other parent which may be why he's not inclined to leave the family home.
We all live in Geneva, so the other two would move just a couple of KM's to mine.

Yes, agree he is worried but also I need to get a balance between being there for him and letting him become an adult.
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Old 18.08.2020, 12:58
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

(haven't read the entire thread as limited time right now, so jumping right in with my 2 cents).

Kids here tend to live with their parents somewhat longer than in other countries', especially when they go to university, simply as for most people, there's some uni available within a commutable distance (and as the quality is roughly the same, it matters little where you go, unless you want to study something that isn't offered everywhere).

I moved out when I was 20 and was one of the first, only one friend moved out before me at 19.

If kids to an apprenticeship, most are done around 18, 19 and then tend to move out if they've found a permanent job. For those who go to uni, it depends - some leave right after graduating from Gymi, into either a flatshare or student accommodation (latter is in limited supply); others wait until 23, 24, 25, give or take, when they graduate.

Parents are obligated to financially support until completion of the first major education - i.e. until kids finish their apprenticeship or their uni degree.
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Old 18.08.2020, 17:42
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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It is interesting when people bring expectatioms with them and are so busy functioning on an old momentum...instead of noticing how much better the situation is here. Or different.

I'd say the desire to own a place in midlife quite often left people peniless at retirement and they had to leave.

Considering how it relates to kids - having them understand how things work here in terms of forward planning is crucial. Locals have that down.

This is the UK were talking about and UK expectations ( not how it is or was in CH and CH expectations or some other places in mainland Europe )
As for - people in midlife left penniless from a desire to own their own home.

Quite the contrary as again were talking about the UK here and the fact
that those same parents or grandparents were sitting in homes where house prices often doubled or even tripled in value within a 'working life
time' particularly if they bought their house in 'the Golden triangle' of
London & the South East during the 1970's and early 80's and again
during the late 1990's.

From personal experience, my brother bought a two bed end of terrace house with garden & garage for £82,000 near Southampton in November 1999, sold it for £210,000 in October 2015.

Therefore no doubt many couples nearing retirement would simply downsize
where their homes accrued in value like the one above with a tidy nest egg
left over.

Although I hasten to add that the old adage 'location, location, location'
& timing was another factor ( as house prices collapsed for a time in the early 1990's when Britain endeavoured to join the European Exchange rate mechanism and BOE interest rates soared to 15 per cent to support the pound during the ERM crisis ) also comes into play and therefore many
Brits experience of rising UK house prices depended on which area of the UK they live in.


Whether such a situation will occur again for the young generation in the

UK Post-Covid, its hard to say.
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Old 18.08.2020, 18:08
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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This is the UK were talking about and UK expectations ( not how it is or was in CH and CH expectations or some other places in mainland Europe )
OP, as I understand it, lives in Geneva, and is concerned with the rights and duties and "the way it's done", for himself, his children, and their mother, in Geneva, in Switzerland.
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Old 18.08.2020, 20:15
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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This is the UK were talking about and UK expectations ( not how it is or was in CH and CH expectations or some other places in mainland Europe )
As for - people in midlife left penniless from a desire to own their own home.
Feel free to explain how you can apply for Swiss citizenship for your children from abroad. Including references to the relevant laws and other regulations.
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Old 18.08.2020, 20:56
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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This is the UK were talking about and UK expectations ( not how it is or was in CH and CH expectations or some other places in mainland Europe )
As for - people in midlife left penniless from a desire to own their own home.

Quite the contrary as again were talking about the UK here and the fact
that those same parents or grandparents were sitting in homes where house prices often doubled or even tripled in value within a 'working life
time' particularly if they bought their house in 'the Golden triangle' of
London & the South East during the 1970's and early 80's and again
during the late 1990's.

From personal experience, my brother bought a two bed end of terrace house with garden & garage for £82,000 near Southampton in November 1999, sold it for £210,000 in October 2015.

Therefore no doubt many couples nearing retirement would simply downsize
where their homes accrued in value like the one above with a tidy nest egg
left over.

Although I hasten to add that the old adage 'location, location, location'
& timing was another factor ( as house prices collapsed for a time in the early 1990's when Britain endeavoured to join the European Exchange rate mechanism and BOE interest rates soared to 15 per cent to support the pound during the ERM crisis ) also comes into play and therefore many
Brits experience of rising UK house prices depended on which area of the UK they live in.


Whether such a situation will occur again for the young generation in the

UK Post-Covid, its hard to say.
Swiss mortgages appear cheap at it's unusual to pay off more than 15% + 20% deposit so 65% debt remains outstanding. This is why it becomes unaffordable in old age or the kids cant afford to inherit. As Switzerland has had very little inflation, prices are only slightly above 1980's peak, rather than a multiple of. My FTB purchase aged 21 in London for £40,000 is worth more than 20 times that today. I Sold it for £94,950 18 months later.
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Old 19.08.2020, 10:21
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

Still work in progress understating everything but for sure one factor will be how long my children continue their studies for & when they become financially independent.

Assuming all of them study until 25 years old and my youngest is 14 so that is another 11 years -minus- I reach 65 in 6 years so that leaves 5 years to cover.

One option is that I have to work until I am 70, here is a good link about postponed retirement.

Then there is the question of which of the children would want to live with me or go into student accommodation.

One piece of information I got was that the money I pay towards the children goes to them once they reach 18 and not their mother. Note to me is to tackle SCARPA who collect the money from me well before then to make sure that happens.

Assume their mother is not going to work anymore than the 40% she does now or be able to contribute either. (just don't go there, I need to be grateful she even works 40%)

Based on who lives with me, then I can review the size of apartment, for example if they all went to live in student accommodation then I could go into a flat share or similar & reduce my costs.

If I am unable to work after 65 then they will look for me to contribute from any money/savings I have and then from my pension (which will be small at this point) & if there is still not enough money then there are social funds that can come into play for the children.

Normally people retire at 65 at the company I work for but I can ask at least anyway or maybe I can go back as a part-time/full time freelancer.

Need to talk to each of my children and see what they think their preferences would be?

Easiest would be if they all moved in with me from a financial standpoint.

Financially I need to look at where I can reduce my costs to be cashflow positive as soon as possible. In 20 months there should be enough money to settle outstanding debts (due to the apartment being sold then) but will have to see what is left if anything and work out if that can go into cashflow the children's education.
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Old 19.08.2020, 13:54
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

One of mine boomeranged after 4.5 years in the US, and has recently moved out after two years back (she took up a second apprenticeship, one year to go).

Advantage was that as she successfully finished her first one, I was no longer financially responsible and thus she was eligible for health insurance and other subsidies, despite living with me.

Keep this in mind.

Tom
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Old 19.08.2020, 15:33
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Re: Children turning 18 - staying with parents

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Need to talk to each of my children and see what they think their preferences would be?
You might have to rethink your attitude. I don't want you to think that imho you shouldn't listen to your teen kids' wishes nor stop making them happy. But the talk should maybe start with "Alright, this is my situation and my plan. This is what we as parents can/want to afford." And reconsider maybe this talk together with the kids' mom?

I wouldn't suggest this but you already worried about waiting on them without them taking care of you, do chores. If they were small, I'd get it. But almost adults? 18? Cmon.
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