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Old 16.09.2020, 13:21
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Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

This forum has been helpful to me so maybe I can get another perspective from someone

I am very active guy, have been all my life. Carrying zero extra weight and in very good shape for someone about to hit 50! Around 1.5 years ago I got some ITBS issues on my left lateral knee due to too much mountain trail running and fitness in general, overuse maybe (ok definitely).

As I am not running currently the pain on lateral knee is not there but pain has moved to lateral left thigh, lateral left hip and lower left back region. I also feel a snapping/clicking feeling, medial left knee. I have tried everything from more strengthening to stretching to foam rolling. I can be pain free for 1 week then with pain for next 2 weeks. Round and round the cycle goes.

Sitting in front of PC makes it worse so I get up every hour and stretch but that has not provided any long term solution. Long hikes are killing me too. Not during the hike but next few days. I just have not been able to solve the issue nor run. Aim was to solve it and get back to mountain running but now I just want to get rid of the pain so I can live more normal again! Technically I can go running but for next few days I will have a sword stuck in my lateral hip/thigh kind of pain. This for a guy who was easily running 10-20km every day for fun.


In last 1.5 years I have taken two breaks from fitness to rest the issue, 3 month break and a 2 month break. Both times rest = increase in pain

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Since this issue started I have been to following docs-



Sport-Clinic twice- The doc each time tested my knees and hip joints "violently" and thoroughly with the various physical joint test manoeuvrers and also ultrasound.

Each time the conclusion was that I have normal knees and hip joints. Lot of tightness on my left side and scar tissues in the muscle. No inflammation of the Bursa. More stretching and core strengthening. I have been stretching constantly with zero long term improvement!!!! I can't make my core any more strong anyway!!!! Doc said zero need for MRI or X-ray. It is soft tissue and not bone joint related.


Schulthess-klinik - Doc did zero manoeuvrers to test my joints. One poke with finger on my back only. He did MRI of my left knee and X-ray of my hip. Left knee he said looks normal, cartilage etc all ok. Medial left knee clicking/snapping feeling could be due to inflamed plica. Hip joint "maybe" slight arthritis. He wanted to do ultrasound but machine was occupied. He said get back to running in 6 months If I still have pain then come back. Then COVID came. 1 year later zero improvement and I definitely won't attempt to run.


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There you have it. Don't know which of the specialist to believe. My symptoms don't seem to match hip joint arthritis as I can sleep on that side, no morning stiffness, no difficulty bending down, full joint flexibility. Actually I am very flexible overall. On the other hand soft tissue not fixing for almost 2 years is bit weird too????

I am planning to see a next specialist! Maybe the higher up doc at Schulthess-klinik or shall I try somewhere else?
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Btw I also visited 2 Physios.


Physio 1- Said I had lot of tightness on the left lateral thigh. Gave me some stretches to do and told me to foam roll. Which did not help. Wanted to do needling I gave it a miss.


Physio 2- Said foam rolling and needling are waste of time and not clinically proven. Gave me a strength routine. Which I did, maybe helped more than the first physio but not really problem solving worth.

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If you made this far, you deserve a medal So what should I do?

Last edited by Talk to you later; 16.09.2020 at 13:42.
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Old 16.09.2020, 13:59
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

I am not sure where you live but I got a physio that is way better than the doctors who saw me. Maybe you could come to him? Pm me if interested. I do a lot of sports so need him for me to be in shape and do it intelligently to avoid some chronic conditions and pain. It takes a very intuitive, smart, hollistic, global and investigative view to think with you towards the future of your body and performance.
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Old 16.09.2020, 15:00
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

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I am not sure where you live but I got a physio that is way better than the doctors who saw me. Maybe you could come to him? Pm me if interested. I do a lot of sports so need him for me to be in shape and do it intelligently to avoid some chronic conditions and pain.
I am ZH.

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It takes a very intuitive, smart, hollistic, global and investigative view to think with you towards the future of your body and performance.


....way better than the doctors who saw me
You can say that again. I have read countless articles and watched endless YT videos to try to solve this! Lot of info is so contradactory. Still I tried everything even using the "flick mud on the wall hopefully something will stick" approach.

Some docs are in their own world and you are just another number/patient for the day! I will see one more specialist and get MRI done of my thigh hip region then take it from there!I I want to 100% rule out any joint wear issues.


Can anyone here read hip X-ray?
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Old 16.09.2020, 15:18
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

You need a doctor you trust, though the Schultess -clinic are supposed to be the place for sports injuries.
Psycho-somatic used to have a very negative connotation, but my experience has been that there is a definite general mental health -pain cause/perception connection -in my latest case sciatica, the explanation being that stress caused the muscles to tense putting pressure on the nerve.
I can recommend yoga; stretching, relaxing, surrounded by ladies - fantastic.
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Old 16.09.2020, 15:22
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

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You need a doctor you trust, though the Schultess -clinic are supposed to be the place for sports injuries.
Which is why I might go and see a different doc there. Give them another chance.

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I can recommend yoga; stretching, relaxing, surrounded by ladies - fantastic.
Have been doing it for 15+ years Amongst other things. All think that I should be the last person who has these issues.
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Old 16.09.2020, 15:30
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

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If you made this far, you deserve a medal So what should I do?
Drugs.

I think you're just feeling the signs of age, TBH. Many people start to develop various aches and pains at your age, often for no apparent reasons.

I have pains all over, all he time, some of them specifically related to old injuries (I broke my back and all my ribs some years back, never been the same since) and some of them just seemingly random.

The fitter and more active I am, the lower the pain levels, and the less likelihood of them becoming acute, but when they do I reach for the ibuprofen without hesitation (at least, when I notice it, which isn't always straight away).

Just occasionally something will flare up to agonising levels, when I reach for the opiates to enable sleep, which is the great healer.
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Old 16.09.2020, 15:53
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

Why not see a chiropractor? There is one in Wallisellen that follows the Gonstead approach that might be exactly what you need. Keep in mind that with LaMal you are allowed to go directly to a chiropractor and it will be covered by LaMal.

Dr. Stefan Rauber

Link: http://www.chiropraktik-wallisellen.ch/en
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Old 16.09.2020, 15:54
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

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Drugs.

I think you're just feeling the signs of age, TBH. Many people start to develop various aches and pains at your age, often for no apparent reasons.

Mine was clear reason though, the start/trigger I mean. While running 50k in the mountains, lateral knee pain started at km2 (1/10 pain level), by km25 I had to stop as pain had increased to 9/10. Next 5 days I could not walk straight or put weigth on my knee. Then I was normal again. Classic ITBS. Until that point I was able to bomb up and down mountians with 0 pain!

I did extra exercises to strengthen my knees, thighs, glutes etc etc. Then I ran around 5 x 25km in a month and pain in the lateral thigh and hip started. It has been downhill since then as I never ran again. Unless catching bus counts


I still do many hours of gym training every week, just not running.
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Old 16.09.2020, 22:07
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

When an older relative told me - decades ago - that at some point after forty, you get „Wanderschmerz“, pain that just pops up randomly, I smiled. Now I‘m fifty and know what he meant. Similarly, when our granddad turned ninety and we asked him how he was doing, he groaned: if I was sixty I‘d say I was deathly ill, but I‘m ninety, so it‘s all normal! Doctors say they are infinitely frustrated by doctor-shoppers who just can‘t accept there is nothing they can do. That said, I have heard almost only good things about the Schulthessklinik and the Balgrist. But perhaps you are „incurably healthy“: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3GaUk3NstL8 A last word of caution: painkillers are cetrainly an option but beware of strong meds. The opiate that cannot cause dependency does not exist. Remember Oxycontin.
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Old 16.09.2020, 23:08
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

Once I was running in the mountains all alone in the winter and snow had blocked the way. I had few other paths that I could take but was not sure as I had already run up and back down few times due to dangerous blocked paths. I saw another runner coming down from one path and we ended up talking for 30mins. He was in his 50s. He said that once he hit 46 his body just started disintegrating

Missenglish, I wish it was not so painful. If 10/10 pain = leg getting chopped off. My pain can reach 8/10 level on bad days

I had a friend who had nerve pain in her legs. It grinded her down so much that she took the EXIT option, apart from that she was slim and healthy

I don't take painkillers. Frankly speaking they never did much for me. Also I like to know what my body is telling me.
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Old 17.09.2020, 07:42
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

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I don't take painkillers. Frankly speaking they never did much for me. Also I like to know what my body is telling me.
Pain is your body telling you to stop, so you are hearing but not listening. Just being human, we don't like the idea of resting all day. If you don't like the message, maybe better to turn it off.
Ibuprufen didn't do the trick for my strained ligaments in the knee - fluid drained followed by a cortisone injection yesterday - bliss, woke up pain free for the first day in weeks. I know that I now I have to look after the joints/muscles better than I had been doing (if I want to avoid knee surgery in the future) and to pace myself - part of getting older
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Old 18.02.2021, 18:47
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

Try pemf. Pulsed electromagnetic frequency
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Old 18.02.2021, 19:08
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Re: Sportclinic, Schulthess-klinik what next?

Have not read all the answers but a couple of things I would try as someone who had plenty of orthopedic issues:

- sports medicine (Schulthess also has is)
- cold laser
- castor or emu oil (I like the touch of emu better and I recommend wraps) and horsechesnut based creams great for stiffness (oils more for tendons and horsechesnut for muscles)
- vinegar or epsom soaks

As some mentioned I find there's a huge difference between physiotherapists (some really understood and helped, some ok, some had idiotic suggestions looking backwards)
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