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  #181  
Old 24.09.2020, 09:45
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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I wonder how many of these countries have paternity leave? I'm guessing none. The OP might consider moving to one of these paternity-leave-free child-labour utopias.
Why don't you move there and take care of the kids? I am moving to the Swiss Alps, otherwise I would have joined you


I never said people can't have kids. Just don't act like you are having them for betterment of society and that everyone owes you money, you are having them for selfish reasons, just like I am child-free for my own selfish reasons

Here is a thought, why don't people adopt orphan kids from countries where child labour is prevalent instead of breeding? It would solve many problems. We all just prefer using products that are directly or indirectly result of child labour instead.
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  #182  
Old 24.09.2020, 10:08
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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Why don't you move there and take care of the kids? I am moving to the Swiss Alps, otherwise I would have joined you


I never said people can't have kids. Just don't act like you are having them for betterment of society and that everyone owes you money, you are having them for selfish reasons, just like I am child-free for my own selfish reasons

Here is a thought, why don't people adopt orphan kids from countries where child labour is prevalent instead of breeding? It would solve many problems. We all just prefer using products that are directly or indirectly result of child labour instead.

Let's pretend rich cantons are not subsidizing public services in Alps cantons.
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  #183  
Old 24.09.2020, 10:19
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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Let's pretend rich cantons are not subsidizing public services in Alps cantons.
If we are pretending then I will maybe retire in Nepal? Nice mountains, even better than the Alps and LOT cheaper or I live here and don't pay any taxes and survive on my own, I have enough survival skills and I can build up on them if required.

Axa, now you have to answer too. Everyone can have 2 kids only, one biological and one adopted orphan from child labour countries. Are you in? Don't you want to be part of a better world for your kids? If you do that, then I will be tempted to pay more taxes.
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  #184  
Old 24.09.2020, 10:41
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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If we are pretending then I will maybe retire in Nepal? Nice mountains, even better than the Alps and LOT cheaper or I live here and don't pay any taxes and survive on my own, I have enough survival skills and I can build up on them if required.

Axa, now you have to answer too. Everyone can have 2 kids only, one biological and one adopted orphan from child labour countries. Are you in? Don't you want to be part of a better world for your kids? If you do that, then I will be tempted to pay more taxes.

If I ever have kids, the 2 allowed kids will be from child labor countries since I come from one of them
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  #185  
Old 24.09.2020, 10:49
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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If I ever have kids, the 2 allowed kids will be from child labor countries since I come from one of them
You side stepped the question, going by that logic I come from child labour country too, so I am making up for lost time by not breeding

I expect you not to breed and adopt two kids from your homeland. It is nice when breeders and non-breeders come to workable real world solutions

Edit- Will call the Bundesrat members and inform them of the good news
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  #186  
Old 24.09.2020, 10:55
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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If we are pretending then I will maybe retire in Nepal? Nice mountains, even better than the Alps and LOT cheaper or I live here and don't pay any taxes and survive on my own, I have enough survival skills and I can build up on them if required.

Axa, now you have to answer too. Everyone can have 2 kids only, one biological and one adopted orphan from child labour countries. Are you in? Don't you want to be part of a better world for your kids? If you do that, then I will be tempted to pay more taxes.
Your definition of a better world is quite personal. Why do you assume that all adopted or fostered children will have a better life with us or be happier? It's a bit presumptious. Normative. I am not trying to relativize just think that it is naieve to think that our way of progress is that one best way. Reducing our birth rate even more will create other conflicts, tensions and frictions. Talk to single children about happines and how they perceive big families...since adoption is not always possible.
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  #187  
Old 24.09.2020, 11:00
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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You side stepped the question, going by that logic I come from child labour country too, so I am making up for lost time by not breeding

I expect you not to breed and adopt two kids from your homeland. It is nice when breeders and non-breeders come to workable real world solutions

Edit- Will call the Bundesrat members and inform them of the good news
Who are you and why are you posting with Talk to you later's account? The original one defended the individual right to live one's life as desired. Now an impostor is telling others how to life their lives

I just pointed that the cabin in the Alps is a self-reliance fantasy. People from the foggy flatlands pay higher taxes that they need to in order to subsidize public services in the Alps.
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  #188  
Old 24.09.2020, 11:32
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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Your definition of a better world is quite personal. Why do you assume that all adopted or fostered children will have a better life with us or be happier? It's a bit presumptious. Normative. I am not trying to relativize just think that it is naieve to think that our way of progress is that one best way. Reducing our birth rate even more will create other conflicts, tensions and frictions. Talk to single children about happines and how they perceive big families...since adoption is not always possible.

Exactly! Everyone's definition of a better world is different. So I was giving you definition of my better world Why single children? I said you can keep two. Anyway, I can guarantee you that no system will ever solve human conflict, tension or friction issues. Look out for my next thread if I feel motivated enough to waste more time, "Life is a sinking ship"

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The original one defended the individual right to live one's life as desired. Now an impostor is telling others how to life their lives
I am just showing the mirror to show how unfair it is paying for your kids For a party to continue you need party crackers
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  #189  
Old 24.09.2020, 11:52
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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Exactly! Everyone's definition of a better world is different. So I was giving you definition of my better world Why single children? I said you can keep two. Anyway, I can guarantee you that no system will ever solve human conflict, tension or friction issues. Look out for my next thread if I feel motivated enough to waste more time, "Life is a sinking ship"

I am just showing the mirror to show how unfair it is paying for your kids For a party to continue you need party crackers
In the same line of thought, why people who earn more should pay more taxes? There should be a fixed amount per month/year regardless of what one is earning. Progressive and proportional taxation is so unfair.
Common, we can find more crackers. Kids are too cute, let's leave them alone for a while.
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  #190  
Old 24.09.2020, 12:01
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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In the same line of thought, why people who earn more should pay more taxes? There should be a fixed amount per month/year regardless of what one is earning. Progressive and proportional taxation is so unfair.
Tax should be exact same % irrespective of your earnings. Btw Lotto should be tax-free as I am planning to win it

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Common, we can find more crackers. Kids are too cute, let's leave them alone for a while.
Yes, they are cute for max 15mins and as long as I can hand them back
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  #191  
Old 24.09.2020, 13:13
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

Ah but is catch 22- you need to be a grandparent for that!


Daughter 2 and partner are about to start on a new life of fostering- for the reasons you stated. We shall be foster grand-parents, we are fully behind them. It is a fact that more and more young people are deciding not to have children because of the current world situation, climate change, etc.

Last edited by JackieH; 24.09.2020 at 14:04.
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  #192  
Old 24.09.2020, 13:38
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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In the same line of thought, why people who earn more should pay more taxes? There should be a fixed amount per month/year regardless of what one is earning. Progressive and proportional taxation is so unfair.
Common, we can find more crackers. Kids are too cute, let's leave them alone for a while.
actually, why should people have more money than others? just make tax 100% and then it can be shared out equally by everybody (including kids and babies).
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  #193  
Old 24.09.2020, 13:50
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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actually, why should people have more money than others? just make tax 100% and then it can be shared out equally by everybody (including kids and babies).
Or one can move to a kibbutz like community or a hard-core Christian sect first and see if they like it....

Might be a solution for many people.
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  #194  
Old 24.09.2020, 14:04
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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Tax should be exact same % irrespective of your earnings. Btw Lotto should be tax-free as I am planning to win it

Yes, they are cute for max 15mins and as long as I can hand them back

Being a parent is not just about finding kids cute or whether or not you do. For me at least, being a parent and having that experience -- and seeing my little boy grow up and develop, etc. -- is the most meaningful and amazing and rewarding experience that I have ever had. So while I can understand why some people don't want kids (and quite frankly, I'm glad that they don't have them -- because people who don't like kids shouldn't be having them). But the fact that you personally can't understand why anyone would want to have the experience of having a child does not invalidate the reasons why other people do want children.

Would you also have a problem with your tax dollars going toward helping the elderly even though you are not elderly? How about the handicapped, even though you are not handicapped? Or how about helping hungry children, even though you yourself have none?
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  #195  
Old 24.09.2020, 14:42
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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But the fact that you personally can't understand why anyone would want to have the experience of having a child does not invalidate the reasons why other people do want children.
They are free to waste their youth and life on kids, I am not stopping anyone I understand that what I consider waste of time, for them is not waste of time, it gives meaning to their life. Just understand that kids cost money and don't look to the state or make demands for $

Btw do you see any issues with people who have 4-5 kids? or do you think we should just outbreed each other irrespective of the consequences? I know many unhappy mums who love their kids but given the choice would not have had them. All the mums in my area look pretty miserable dealing with their kids. So I would say it is a mixed bag.

Edit- I know some mums who actually don't love their kids and hold a grudge for wasting their youth on unplanned pregnancy.

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Would you also have a problem with your tax dollars going toward helping the elderly even though you are not elderly?
In general no, but if they start making too many demands like wanting state-of-the-art rollator then maybe

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How about the handicapped, even though you are not handicapped?
People who are handicapped did not choose to become handicapped. I would hope that most adults chose to be parents or at least knew the consequences of having sex. Also, there are other options in case of unplanned pregnancy. Handicapped people don't have any undo options.
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Or how about helping hungry children, even though you yourself have none?
They did not play any part in bringing themselves into this world, so I will help them and already have been helping for many years

Last edited by Talk to you later; 24.09.2020 at 14:58.
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  #196  
Old 24.09.2020, 15:42
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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They are free to waste their youth and life on kids, I am not stopping anyone I understand that what I consider waste of time, for them is not waste of time, it gives meaning to their life. Just understand that kids cost money and don't look to the state or make demands for $

Btw do you see any issues with people who have 4-5 kids? or do you think we should just outbreed each other irrespective of the consequences? I know many unhappy mums who love their kids but given the choice would not have had them. All the mums in my area look pretty miserable dealing with their kids. So I would say it is a mixed bag.
Well, you seem to be implying that parents should be 'punished' for having children since it is their choice and that there should be nothing in place in terms of assistance for parents because it was a choice for them to have children. Now, I know of plenty of parents who became pregnant not due to direct choice but by circumstance (I'm one of them), where they became pregnant and then went on to have the child because they didn't want to have an abortion and the thought of having a child made sense to them when the opportunity presented itself.

To me, it seems as though you are so locked into your subjective perception that kids are unnecessary that you think that should extend to all humans in general.

In regard to your question about people having 4 or 5 kids, if you had asked me 100+ years ago, I probably would have said that it's fine as long as they can take care of them. But considering population growth and its toll on the environment, I do think people should try to be more mindful of how many children they have. And thankfully, people are now having, on average, less kids than they were years ago. But to imply that people should just stop having children or should be expected to stop having children is rather ridiculous.
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  #197  
Old 24.09.2020, 16:01
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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They are free to waste their youth and life on kids, I am not stopping anyone I understand that what I consider waste of time, for them is not waste of time, it gives meaning to their life. Just understand that kids cost money and don't look to the state or make demands for $
It's rather the other way around. The state understands they cost money and is willing to subsidise a tiny part of this personal cost. That being said, I do not think that a few financial incentives are solving our bellow-replacement birth rates. Because kids need your time, affection and attention (I would say devotion, but maybe that's just me) and some people are just...never ready to adjust their life styles.
You're complaining too much for nothing. The mythical 4-5 kids families are very rare.
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  #198  
Old 24.09.2020, 16:23
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

You guys are taking it bit too personally. I am Mr Nobody just having a chat/debate online. Let us agree to differ about the extent to which state should provide.

I am unsubscribing from this thread as replying again and again is taking too much time and keeping me from earning money to provide for your kids
I wish you well, dear mamas and papas, including future ones.
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Old 24.09.2020, 17:07
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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You guys are taking it bit too personally. I am Mr Nobody just having a chat/debate online. Let us agree to differ about the extent to which state should provide.
.
Haha, you actually made some good points here and can partially/to some extent agree with you. Don't feel bad or attacked, at least as far as I'm concerned you're very welcome to state your points of view. But you know, there's always the other side of the story.
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Old 24.09.2020, 18:03
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Re: I have to pay for your kids? :-O

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You guys are taking it bit too personally. I am Mr Nobody just having a chat/debate online. Let us agree to differ about the extent to which state should provide.
...about the extent to which the state should tax and redistribute.
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