Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
View Poll Results: Covid 19: Will you get the vaccination?
Yes, definitely 135 58.19%
Not sure. Let's wait and see 33 14.22%
No way. I don't need it 15 6.47%
What vaccine? 1 0.43%
Probably - but not straight away 38 16.38%
Only if they make me 10 4.31%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 06.12.2020, 11:24
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,322
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 3,969 Times in 1,806 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

The other thing we need to see is how much protection the vaccine gives against transmission.

At the moment it seems to be a sensible precaution for people more at risk of serious disease, but not yet confirmed as a way to stop mass transmission.

Having said that, all (?) other vaccines provide both immunity from the disease and prevention of transmission, so there doesn't seem to be any reason to think the coronavirus vaccines would be different.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #182  
Old 06.12.2020, 11:40
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,645
Groaned at 358 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 19,155 Times in 9,993 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
I wonder whether it might be smart to test people for antibodies before administering a vaccine. I would imagine that with a positive antibody test you dont need the vaccine,. This somewhat limits the risk and makes more vaccine available for other people now at the initial roll-out stage.
It would delay. Considering the mass numbers of people waiting to be vaxed, inserting one such step and processing data would delay it by months, I think. I perso agree but am sceptical. Another thing is to determine the level of antibodies to not need the shot and add the fact that they gradually disappear, anyway, so that test for antibodies would have to be repeated multiple times.
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 06.12.2020, 11:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 585
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 593 Times in 268 Posts
MajorGrubert has an excellent reputationMajorGrubert has an excellent reputationMajorGrubert has an excellent reputationMajorGrubert has an excellent reputation
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Crossposted by request:

Switzerland will authorize COVID-19 vaccines in January. Then they plan to start vaccinating 70,000 people per day. By the summer, 6 million people in the country will be vaccinated.

Risk groups to be prioritized are the elderly and those with conditions such as diabetes, chronic pulmonary disease or hypertension. Family doctors will contact their patients for that purpose.

The army will be in charge of storing the vaccines. Locations are kept secret due to risk of sabotage/theft/espionage.

https://nzzas.nzz.ch/schweiz/corona-...ein-ld.1590560 (paywall)
https://www.20min.ch/story/impfaktio...r-588978011797
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MajorGrubert for this useful post:
  #184  
Old 06.12.2020, 11:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,939
Groaned at 1,097 Times in 751 Posts
Thanked 18,565 Times in 7,199 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
I wonder whether it might be smart to test people for antibodies before administering a vaccine. I would imagine that with a positive antibody test you dont need the vaccine,. This somewhat limits the risk and makes more vaccine available for other people now at the initial roll-out stage.
On what concrete evidence that 'COVID antibodies last long enough and are strong enough to prevent future infections' are you basing that theory? or is it literally you just imagining something?
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 06.12.2020, 11:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 1,749
Groaned at 38 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,421 Times in 1,180 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
On what concrete evidence that 'COVID antibodies last long enough and are strong enough to prevent future infections' are you basing that theory? or is it literally you just imagining something?
Well for most people it's probably at least 8 months - reinfections are still quite rare. There's actually less evidence for the duration of protection of vaccination.

But yeah - I think vaccination of these people is still sensitive.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #186  
Old 06.12.2020, 13:37
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich
Posts: 733
Groaned at 67 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 372 Times in 213 Posts
Focus has earned some respectFocus has earned some respect
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1800625233422603
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Focus for this useful post:
  #187  
Old 06.12.2020, 17:18
FCBarca's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La Côte
Posts: 1,287
Groaned at 100 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 1,401 Times in 640 Posts
FCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
I didn't claim there were "no safety concerns whatsoever" I wrote:

-There are no significant safety concerns raised in the 42000 people tested for Pfizer.
-There are no long-term study results yet available (for obvious reasons).

If established medical and regulatory bodies are saying it is safe to use, then weighing up the pros and cons of getting COVID and associated health complication, vs receiving a vaccine that has been well tested in the short term with no adverse affects but that untested in long-term use... then I will take the vaccine any day of the week.
Short term for no safety concerns is irrelevant, even in 42k - to be noted, a randomized parallel design with placebo meaning those who were dosed were more like half (21k)

No established medical or regulatory bodies have said it is safe to use. EMA & FDA have yet to weigh in. The UK dove in first with that regulatory review, they performed their own expedited process

Pros/cons of vaccine use in current climate is a risk mitigation scenario due to escalating cases & fatalities - does not negate it from being a roll of the dice

You're welcome to jump in first but to admonish others who would prefer to exercise caution is pretty arrogant
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank FCBarca for this useful post:
  #188  
Old 06.12.2020, 17:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,939
Groaned at 1,097 Times in 751 Posts
Thanked 18,565 Times in 7,199 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
Short term for no safety concerns is irrelevant, even in 42k - to be noted, a randomized parallel design with placebo meaning those who were dosed were more like half (21k)

No established medical or regulatory bodies have said it is safe to use. EMA & FDA have yet to weigh in. The UK dove in first with that regulatory review, they performed their own expedited process

Pros/cons of vaccine use in current climate is a risk mitigation scenario due to escalating cases & fatalities - does not negate it from being a roll of the dice

You're welcome to jump in first but to admonish others who would prefer to exercise caution is pretty arrogant
You say "roll of the dice" like everything is left to chance, like it's some random quack concoction that gives you a 50/50 chance of dying a horrible death. That there is a risk associated with the vaccine I have no doubt, but I also don't doubt that the risk is very small vs the risk and impact of catching COVID and having long term health issues as a result.

Science and medicine are not always 100% perfect, but they are far better than leaving things to chance and if so many high profile figures with access to the best medical experts in the world such as the queen and major politicians etc are willing to take the vaccine then that's good enough for me.

You and everyone else can do what they like, wait a year or even two if you want, it is of no concern to me and it's up to the government and related bodies to cultivate mass acceptance of this vaccine, hopefully enforced by required vaccinations for travel etc. Society needs to function again and I am far more happy to take a vaccine with a tiny residual risk from no long term testing, than I am to walk around worrying about COVID everywhere I go.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #189  
Old 06.12.2020, 18:13
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,290
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,688 Times in 10,973 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
You say "roll of the dice" like everything is left to chance, like it's some random quack concoction that gives you a 50/50 chance of dying a horrible death. That there is a risk associated with the vaccine I have no doubt, but I also don't doubt that the risk is very small vs the risk and impact of catching COVID and having long term health issues as a result.

Science and medicine are not always 100% perfect, but they are far better than leaving things to chance and if so many high profile figures with access to the best medical experts in the world such as the queen and major politicians etc are willing to take the vaccine then that's good enough for me.

You and everyone else can do what they like, wait a year or even two if you want, it is of no concern to me and it's up to the government and related bodies to cultivate mass acceptance of this vaccine, hopefully enforced by required vaccinations for travel etc. Society needs to function again and I am far more happy to take a vaccine with a tiny residual risk from no long term testing, than I am to walk around worrying about COVID everywhere I go.
Since when did a dice have 2 sides, tossing a coin would be 50:50 chance.
Death is certainly not the worst option if something goes badly wrong.........
People need to make their own choice, take a vaccine, stay at home or live a normal life. The people at risk are pretty well defined.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #190  
Old 06.12.2020, 18:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,273
Groaned at 207 Times in 151 Posts
Thanked 5,846 Times in 2,728 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
I am curious that the fertility issues have not been discussed, this could have a massive impact going forward, probably not a bad thing, Darwin would have been proud.
Well, I’m sterile. But the kittens would miss me.
Reply With Quote
  #191  
Old 06.12.2020, 18:30
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,290
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,688 Times in 10,973 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
Well, I’m sterile. But the kittens would miss me.
If children get the vaccine then 2 generations could be effected, not good for anyone who wants a Pillar 1 pension 25 years plus down the line.
Reply With Quote
  #192  
Old 06.12.2020, 20:14
FCBarca's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La Côte
Posts: 1,287
Groaned at 100 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 1,401 Times in 640 Posts
FCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
You say "roll of the dice" like everything is left to chance, like it's some random quack concoction that gives you a 50/50 chance of dying a horrible death. That there is a risk associated with the vaccine I have no doubt, but I also don't doubt that the risk is very small vs the risk and impact of catching COVID and having long term health issues as a result.

Science and medicine are not always 100% perfect, but they are far better than leaving things to chance and if so many high profile figures with access to the best medical experts in the world such as the queen and major politicians etc are willing to take the vaccine then that's good enough for me.

You and everyone else can do what they like, wait a year or even two if you want, it is of no concern to me and it's up to the government and related bodies to cultivate mass acceptance of this vaccine, hopefully enforced by required vaccinations for travel etc. Society needs to function again and I am far more happy to take a vaccine with a tiny residual risk from no long term testing, than I am to walk around worrying about COVID everywhere I go.

Because there is no long term safety data on top of two very key points you seem to just as casually gloss over. One, vaccine development takes time - often at least a decade and even then there is a high failure rate to deliver on its intentions. Two, there has never been a successful RNA based vaccine created before - ever. We are in unchartered territory in more ways than one, not least of which is our very preliminary understanding of COVID but insufficient safety data or experience with RNA based vaccines

Neither you nor I know what the long term consequences of COVID are either from being infected and surviving or a mutated strain in the coming years. Same applies to a novel vaccine approach that was rushed through development. I am not suggesting perfection, I am merely pointing out there are safety issues that exist beyond the preliminary data you seem to be sure is a small risk. Yes, it could be a great success but to gloss over the uncertainties and minimizing the potential risks being taken reflects ignorance

However, what you clearly have missed and even what the UK authorities have insisted, COVID is here to stay - vaccine or not. Meaning, this is not a magic cure, we will have to face this going forward so if your biggest concern is not having to walk around worrying about it, believe me long after your dive in it will still be something to worry about. When you finally come to terms with that, you'll have some perspective
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank FCBarca for this useful post:
  #193  
Old 06.12.2020, 20:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 527
Groaned at 34 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 1,064 Times in 489 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
I really do have to wonder at all of the posts in this thread talking about acting as "guinea pigs" for "untested" vaccines.

The vaccines have been through an accepted level testing and no significant safety concerns have been raised in the 42 thousand test participants. Long-term test results are not available for obvious reasons. I think that pregnant women are one of the only groups not yet tested.

There is so much scaremongering going from scientifically ignorant people, a lot of it fuelled by Facebook anti-vax groups.
This is not for you to say if the vaccine is safe or not. And not even for the Bundesamt für Gesundheit. The only authority which can approve the vaccine usage in Switzerland is Swissmedic, and they haven’t given their OK yet. Neither did FDA, EMA, or any other regulatory authority except the one in UK.

BAG explicitly mentioned that the Covid vaccine must be approved by Swissmedic before being used, and it will be approved only if all safety requirements are met. We don’t know if by January, or even later, the vaccine will be approved and available.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank leonie for this useful post:
  #194  
Old 07.12.2020, 05:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,939
Groaned at 1,097 Times in 751 Posts
Thanked 18,565 Times in 7,199 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
Because there is no long term safety data on top of two very key points you seem to just as casually gloss over. One, vaccine development takes time - often at least a decade and even then there is a high failure rate to deliver on its intentions. Two, there has never been a successful RNA based vaccine created before - ever. We are in unchartered territory in more ways than one, not least of which is our very preliminary understanding of COVID but insufficient safety data or experience with RNA based vaccines

Neither you nor I know what the long term consequences of COVID are either from being infected and surviving or a mutated strain in the coming years. Same applies to a novel vaccine approach that was rushed through development. I am not suggesting perfection, I am merely pointing out there are safety issues that exist beyond the preliminary data you seem to be sure is a small risk. Yes, it could be a great success but to gloss over the uncertainties and minimizing the potential risks being taken reflects ignorance

However, what you clearly have missed and even what the UK authorities have insisted, COVID is here to stay - vaccine or not. Meaning, this is not a magic cure, we will have to face this going forward so if your biggest concern is not having to walk around worrying about it, believe me long after your dive in it will still be something to worry about. When you finally come to terms with that, you'll have some perspective
I 'came to terms with the pandemic' a long time ago, it's actually been fantastic for my health (seriously, I am fitter now than 10 years ago from making good use of the lockdown time to get in shape). I have loved working from home and now home office will be a feature of my working life, which is fantastic. I have also made the most of all the quiet time that it's allowed me. In many ways the side-effects of it have ironically been good for me on a personal level and if I had to deal with restrictions for the next 2 years then I could do. I don't want to, but I could.

Of course COVID isn't going to magically disappear, but an effective vaccine would greatly reduce the risk of contracting COVID and allow for life to return to some semblance of normality for many people, that much is just obvious.

Anyway as I said, feel free to do what you want, I really don't care if you get the vaccine or not as long as it does what it needs to do. We can agree to disagree on anything else such as weighing up the residual risks of the vaccine vs the risks of a pandemic continuing to run through and crippling society.

Quote:
View Post
This is not for you to say if the vaccine is safe or not.
Really? I was just about to formally declare and approve the vaccine for use within Switzerland until you informed that I was not a regulatory body. Thanks for clarifying.

Last edited by Chuff; 07.12.2020 at 06:13.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #195  
Old 07.12.2020, 08:40
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,290
Groaned at 429 Times in 320 Posts
Thanked 20,688 Times in 10,973 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
Really? I was just about to formally declare and approve the vaccine for use within Switzerland until you informed that I was not a regulatory body. Thanks for clarifying.
Chuff your grandiose delusions never cease to amaze me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #196  
Old 07.12.2020, 08:44
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 527
Groaned at 34 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 1,064 Times in 489 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
Really? I was just about to formally declare and approve the vaccine for use within Switzerland until you informed that I was not a regulatory body. Thanks for clarifying.
Swissmedic checks if the vaccine was through the accepted level of testing or not. When you say that “the vaccines have been through an accepted level testing” before Swissmedic does, don’t you think this is a bit early from your side to say so?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank leonie for this useful post:
  #197  
Old 07.12.2020, 09:02
V__ V__ is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,347
Groaned at 321 Times in 173 Posts
Thanked 1,441 Times in 681 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Anybody still wants to get this rushed vaccine in their body? Because - pharma companies will get a pass if you get sick from it and it won't grant you the normalcy many are looking for.

So, wasn't herd immunity the better option from the get go?

Drug makers not liable if people get sick from COVID vaccine

Coronavirus vaccine won't free you from self-isolation, says Government
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #198  
Old 07.12.2020, 09:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,939
Groaned at 1,097 Times in 751 Posts
Thanked 18,565 Times in 7,199 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Quote:
View Post
Swissmedic checks if the vaccine was through the accepted level of testing or not. When you say that “the vaccines have been through an accepted level testing” before Swissmedic does, don’t you think this is a bit early from your side to say so?
If you apply a bit of contextual intelligence then I obviously I am talking about an acceptable level of testing for the acceptance and approval that it has currently gained... not for what it hasn't.
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 07.12.2020, 11:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Steinach SG
Posts: 8,455
Groaned at 411 Times in 310 Posts
Thanked 11,014 Times in 5,798 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

It's good to see the ban got lifted, welcome back.
Quote:
View Post
So, wasn't herd immunity the better option from the get go?
No.
The reasons mentioned a gazillion times by now still apply. Plus long term covid.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #200  
Old 07.12.2020, 11:14
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,086
Groaned at 438 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 2,712 Times in 1,234 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

A first look at the Covid Vaccines ID Cards in the UK in the Mail Online. No photograph, no details, no way this can possibly be abused in anyway

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tity-card.html
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
coronavirus, covid, vaccination, vaccine




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Covid 19 vaccine arriving janvier Family matters/health 51 26.12.2020 19:20
Flu vaccine in Geneva mbdm Family matters/health 7 09.12.2016 14:12
Vaccine Question iulianaW Family matters/health 209 25.08.2016 18:49
Vaccine question MsWorWoo Family matters/health 0 03.07.2015 14:59
Meningitis B vaccine John_H Family matters/health 8 03.12.2013 10:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0