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View Poll Results: Covid 19: Will you get the vaccination?
Yes, definitely 122 56.22%
Not sure. Let's wait and see 32 14.75%
No way. I don't need it 14 6.45%
What vaccine? 1 0.46%
Probably - but not straight away 38 17.51%
Only if they make me 10 4.61%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

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  #181  
Old 06.12.2020, 12:24
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

The other thing we need to see is how much protection the vaccine gives against transmission.

At the moment it seems to be a sensible precaution for people more at risk of serious disease, but not yet confirmed as a way to stop mass transmission.

Having said that, all (?) other vaccines provide both immunity from the disease and prevention of transmission, so there doesn't seem to be any reason to think the coronavirus vaccines would be different.
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  #182  
Old 06.12.2020, 12:40
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I wonder whether it might be smart to test people for antibodies before administering a vaccine. I would imagine that with a positive antibody test you dont need the vaccine,. This somewhat limits the risk and makes more vaccine available for other people now at the initial roll-out stage.
It would delay. Considering the mass numbers of people waiting to be vaxed, inserting one such step and processing data would delay it by months, I think. I perso agree but am sceptical. Another thing is to determine the level of antibodies to not need the shot and add the fact that they gradually disappear, anyway, so that test for antibodies would have to be repeated multiple times.
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  #183  
Old 06.12.2020, 12:42
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Crossposted by request:

Switzerland will authorize COVID-19 vaccines in January. Then they plan to start vaccinating 70,000 people per day. By the summer, 6 million people in the country will be vaccinated.

Risk groups to be prioritized are the elderly and those with conditions such as diabetes, chronic pulmonary disease or hypertension. Family doctors will contact their patients for that purpose.

The army will be in charge of storing the vaccines. Locations are kept secret due to risk of sabotage/theft/espionage.

https://nzzas.nzz.ch/schweiz/corona-...ein-ld.1590560 (paywall)
https://www.20min.ch/story/impfaktio...r-588978011797
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  #184  
Old 06.12.2020, 12:44
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I wonder whether it might be smart to test people for antibodies before administering a vaccine. I would imagine that with a positive antibody test you dont need the vaccine,. This somewhat limits the risk and makes more vaccine available for other people now at the initial roll-out stage.
On what concrete evidence that 'COVID antibodies last long enough and are strong enough to prevent future infections' are you basing that theory? or is it literally you just imagining something?
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  #185  
Old 06.12.2020, 12:57
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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On what concrete evidence that 'COVID antibodies last long enough and are strong enough to prevent future infections' are you basing that theory? or is it literally you just imagining something?
Well for most people it's probably at least 8 months - reinfections are still quite rare. There's actually less evidence for the duration of protection of vaccination.

But yeah - I think vaccination of these people is still sensitive.
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  #186  
Old 06.12.2020, 14:37
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1800625233422603
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  #187  
Old 06.12.2020, 18:18
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I didn't claim there were "no safety concerns whatsoever" I wrote:

-There are no significant safety concerns raised in the 42000 people tested for Pfizer.
-There are no long-term study results yet available (for obvious reasons).

If established medical and regulatory bodies are saying it is safe to use, then weighing up the pros and cons of getting COVID and associated health complication, vs receiving a vaccine that has been well tested in the short term with no adverse affects but that untested in long-term use... then I will take the vaccine any day of the week.
Short term for no safety concerns is irrelevant, even in 42k - to be noted, a randomized parallel design with placebo meaning those who were dosed were more like half (21k)

No established medical or regulatory bodies have said it is safe to use. EMA & FDA have yet to weigh in. The UK dove in first with that regulatory review, they performed their own expedited process

Pros/cons of vaccine use in current climate is a risk mitigation scenario due to escalating cases & fatalities - does not negate it from being a roll of the dice

You're welcome to jump in first but to admonish others who would prefer to exercise caution is pretty arrogant
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  #188  
Old 06.12.2020, 18:41
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Short term for no safety concerns is irrelevant, even in 42k - to be noted, a randomized parallel design with placebo meaning those who were dosed were more like half (21k)

No established medical or regulatory bodies have said it is safe to use. EMA & FDA have yet to weigh in. The UK dove in first with that regulatory review, they performed their own expedited process

Pros/cons of vaccine use in current climate is a risk mitigation scenario due to escalating cases & fatalities - does not negate it from being a roll of the dice

You're welcome to jump in first but to admonish others who would prefer to exercise caution is pretty arrogant
You say "roll of the dice" like everything is left to chance, like it's some random quack concoction that gives you a 50/50 chance of dying a horrible death. That there is a risk associated with the vaccine I have no doubt, but I also don't doubt that the risk is very small vs the risk and impact of catching COVID and having long term health issues as a result.

Science and medicine are not always 100% perfect, but they are far better than leaving things to chance and if so many high profile figures with access to the best medical experts in the world such as the queen and major politicians etc are willing to take the vaccine then that's good enough for me.

You and everyone else can do what they like, wait a year or even two if you want, it is of no concern to me and it's up to the government and related bodies to cultivate mass acceptance of this vaccine, hopefully enforced by required vaccinations for travel etc. Society needs to function again and I am far more happy to take a vaccine with a tiny residual risk from no long term testing, than I am to walk around worrying about COVID everywhere I go.
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  #189  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:13
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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You say "roll of the dice" like everything is left to chance, like it's some random quack concoction that gives you a 50/50 chance of dying a horrible death. That there is a risk associated with the vaccine I have no doubt, but I also don't doubt that the risk is very small vs the risk and impact of catching COVID and having long term health issues as a result.

Science and medicine are not always 100% perfect, but they are far better than leaving things to chance and if so many high profile figures with access to the best medical experts in the world such as the queen and major politicians etc are willing to take the vaccine then that's good enough for me.

You and everyone else can do what they like, wait a year or even two if you want, it is of no concern to me and it's up to the government and related bodies to cultivate mass acceptance of this vaccine, hopefully enforced by required vaccinations for travel etc. Society needs to function again and I am far more happy to take a vaccine with a tiny residual risk from no long term testing, than I am to walk around worrying about COVID everywhere I go.
Since when did a dice have 2 sides, tossing a coin would be 50:50 chance.
Death is certainly not the worst option if something goes badly wrong.........
People need to make their own choice, take a vaccine, stay at home or live a normal life. The people at risk are pretty well defined.
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  #190  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:26
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I am curious that the fertility issues have not been discussed, this could have a massive impact going forward, probably not a bad thing, Darwin would have been proud.
Well, I’m sterile. But the kittens would miss me.
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  #191  
Old 06.12.2020, 19:30
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Well, I’m sterile. But the kittens would miss me.
If children get the vaccine then 2 generations could be effected, not good for anyone who wants a Pillar 1 pension 25 years plus down the line.
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  #192  
Old 06.12.2020, 21:14
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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You say "roll of the dice" like everything is left to chance, like it's some random quack concoction that gives you a 50/50 chance of dying a horrible death. That there is a risk associated with the vaccine I have no doubt, but I also don't doubt that the risk is very small vs the risk and impact of catching COVID and having long term health issues as a result.

Science and medicine are not always 100% perfect, but they are far better than leaving things to chance and if so many high profile figures with access to the best medical experts in the world such as the queen and major politicians etc are willing to take the vaccine then that's good enough for me.

You and everyone else can do what they like, wait a year or even two if you want, it is of no concern to me and it's up to the government and related bodies to cultivate mass acceptance of this vaccine, hopefully enforced by required vaccinations for travel etc. Society needs to function again and I am far more happy to take a vaccine with a tiny residual risk from no long term testing, than I am to walk around worrying about COVID everywhere I go.

Because there is no long term safety data on top of two very key points you seem to just as casually gloss over. One, vaccine development takes time - often at least a decade and even then there is a high failure rate to deliver on its intentions. Two, there has never been a successful RNA based vaccine created before - ever. We are in unchartered territory in more ways than one, not least of which is our very preliminary understanding of COVID but insufficient safety data or experience with RNA based vaccines

Neither you nor I know what the long term consequences of COVID are either from being infected and surviving or a mutated strain in the coming years. Same applies to a novel vaccine approach that was rushed through development. I am not suggesting perfection, I am merely pointing out there are safety issues that exist beyond the preliminary data you seem to be sure is a small risk. Yes, it could be a great success but to gloss over the uncertainties and minimizing the potential risks being taken reflects ignorance

However, what you clearly have missed and even what the UK authorities have insisted, COVID is here to stay - vaccine or not. Meaning, this is not a magic cure, we will have to face this going forward so if your biggest concern is not having to walk around worrying about it, believe me long after your dive in it will still be something to worry about. When you finally come to terms with that, you'll have some perspective
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  #193  
Old 06.12.2020, 21:16
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I really do have to wonder at all of the posts in this thread talking about acting as "guinea pigs" for "untested" vaccines.

The vaccines have been through an accepted level testing and no significant safety concerns have been raised in the 42 thousand test participants. Long-term test results are not available for obvious reasons. I think that pregnant women are one of the only groups not yet tested.

There is so much scaremongering going from scientifically ignorant people, a lot of it fuelled by Facebook anti-vax groups.
This is not for you to say if the vaccine is safe or not. And not even for the Bundesamt für Gesundheit. The only authority which can approve the vaccine usage in Switzerland is Swissmedic, and they haven’t given their OK yet. Neither did FDA, EMA, or any other regulatory authority except the one in UK.

BAG explicitly mentioned that the Covid vaccine must be approved by Swissmedic before being used, and it will be approved only if all safety requirements are met. We don’t know if by January, or even later, the vaccine will be approved and available.
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  #194  
Old 07.12.2020, 06:19
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Because there is no long term safety data on top of two very key points you seem to just as casually gloss over. One, vaccine development takes time - often at least a decade and even then there is a high failure rate to deliver on its intentions. Two, there has never been a successful RNA based vaccine created before - ever. We are in unchartered territory in more ways than one, not least of which is our very preliminary understanding of COVID but insufficient safety data or experience with RNA based vaccines

Neither you nor I know what the long term consequences of COVID are either from being infected and surviving or a mutated strain in the coming years. Same applies to a novel vaccine approach that was rushed through development. I am not suggesting perfection, I am merely pointing out there are safety issues that exist beyond the preliminary data you seem to be sure is a small risk. Yes, it could be a great success but to gloss over the uncertainties and minimizing the potential risks being taken reflects ignorance

However, what you clearly have missed and even what the UK authorities have insisted, COVID is here to stay - vaccine or not. Meaning, this is not a magic cure, we will have to face this going forward so if your biggest concern is not having to walk around worrying about it, believe me long after your dive in it will still be something to worry about. When you finally come to terms with that, you'll have some perspective
I 'came to terms with the pandemic' a long time ago, it's actually been fantastic for my health (seriously, I am fitter now than 10 years ago from making good use of the lockdown time to get in shape). I have loved working from home and now home office will be a feature of my working life, which is fantastic. I have also made the most of all the quiet time that it's allowed me. In many ways the side-effects of it have ironically been good for me on a personal level and if I had to deal with restrictions for the next 2 years then I could do. I don't want to, but I could.

Of course COVID isn't going to magically disappear, but an effective vaccine would greatly reduce the risk of contracting COVID and allow for life to return to some semblance of normality for many people, that much is just obvious.

Anyway as I said, feel free to do what you want, I really don't care if you get the vaccine or not as long as it does what it needs to do. We can agree to disagree on anything else such as weighing up the residual risks of the vaccine vs the risks of a pandemic continuing to run through and crippling society.

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This is not for you to say if the vaccine is safe or not.
Really? I was just about to formally declare and approve the vaccine for use within Switzerland until you informed that I was not a regulatory body. Thanks for clarifying.

Last edited by Chuff; 07.12.2020 at 07:13.
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  #195  
Old 07.12.2020, 09:40
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Really? I was just about to formally declare and approve the vaccine for use within Switzerland until you informed that I was not a regulatory body. Thanks for clarifying.
Chuff your grandiose delusions never cease to amaze me.
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  #196  
Old 07.12.2020, 09:44
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Really? I was just about to formally declare and approve the vaccine for use within Switzerland until you informed that I was not a regulatory body. Thanks for clarifying.
Swissmedic checks if the vaccine was through the accepted level of testing or not. When you say that “the vaccines have been through an accepted level testing” before Swissmedic does, don’t you think this is a bit early from your side to say so?
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  #197  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:02
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Anybody still wants to get this rushed vaccine in their body? Because - pharma companies will get a pass if you get sick from it and it won't grant you the normalcy many are looking for.

So, wasn't herd immunity the better option from the get go?

Drug makers not liable if people get sick from COVID vaccine

Coronavirus vaccine won't free you from self-isolation, says Government
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  #198  
Old 07.12.2020, 10:24
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Swissmedic checks if the vaccine was through the accepted level of testing or not. When you say that “the vaccines have been through an accepted level testing” before Swissmedic does, don’t you think this is a bit early from your side to say so?
If you apply a bit of contextual intelligence then I obviously I am talking about an acceptable level of testing for the acceptance and approval that it has currently gained... not for what it hasn't.
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  #199  
Old 07.12.2020, 12:05
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

It's good to see the ban got lifted, welcome back.
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So, wasn't herd immunity the better option from the get go?
No.
The reasons mentioned a gazillion times by now still apply. Plus long term covid.
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  #200  
Old 07.12.2020, 12:14
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

A first look at the Covid Vaccines ID Cards in the UK in the Mail Online. No photograph, no details, no way this can possibly be abused in anyway

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tity-card.html
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