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View Poll Results: Covid 19: Will you get the vaccination?
Yes, definitely 163 60.59%
Not sure. Let's wait and see 36 13.38%
No way. I don't need it 17 6.32%
What vaccine? 1 0.37%
Probably - but not straight away 39 14.50%
Only if they make me 13 4.83%
Voters: 269. You may not vote on this poll

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  #301  
Old 12.12.2020, 08:54
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

FDA has authorized emergency use of Pfizer vaccine:

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“While not an FDA approval, today’s emergency use authorization of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine holds the promise to alter the course of this pandemic in the United States,” said Peter Marks, the director of the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, in a statement. “With science guiding our decision-making, the available safety and effectiveness data support the authorization of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine because the vaccine’s known and potential benefits clearly outweigh its known and potential risks.”
Fairly lukewarm endorsement
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  #302  
Old 12.12.2020, 20:12
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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FDA has authorized emergency use of Pfizer vaccine:

Fairly lukewarm endorsement
That is a fairly standard emergency use authorisation. I don't see it as a lukewarm endorsement. Regulators will always mention the possibility of adverse effects (every drug has them!), and if the drug is approved, that its benefits outweigh the risks.

On the contrary, the FDA has noted the vaccine's potential to change the course of the pandemic as its major benefit.
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  #303  
Old 12.12.2020, 20:12
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Don't use your parents as benchmarks of ignorance because they were raised in far less scientifically and medically enlightened times. The science is now there for you to read and you are ignoring it and putting your children's lives at risk. That makes you both ignorant AND a bad parent (in this context) because you are consciously and purposefully making the wrong decisions for their health based on your own fears and lack of knowledge. I really feel sorry for them as they will be exposed to diseases that they simply should not be exposed to.

I really hope one day its illegal not to vaccinate your children in order to compensate for medically neglectful parents like yourself.
… I know that my statement will get rash to some ''true enormous geniuses'' and that they will be calling me ignorant and uneducated and etc...but I didn't ask anybody to comment my statement, I answered to the thread question...to call someone ignorant are big arrogance hence you don't know who is on other side of network...
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  #304  
Old 12.12.2020, 20:37
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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… I know that my statement will get rash to some ''true enormous geniuses'' and that they will be calling me ignorant and uneducated and etc...but I didn't ask anybody to comment my statement, I answered to the thread question...to call someone ignorant are big arrogance hence you don't know who is on other side of network...
Agreed. But could you please read all of what I posted above?
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  #305  
Old 12.12.2020, 21:34
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Agreed. But could you please read all of what I posted above?
…of course I did...but I not agree on those theories you persuading...I can bring up lot of arguments in defending my views, but will not, as on this forum my view is unpopular and will resume only to the statements not to the useless debates...
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  #306  
Old 13.12.2020, 04:33
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…of course I did...but I not agree on those theories you persuading...I can bring up lot of arguments in defending my views, but will not, as on this forum my view is unpopular and will resume only to the statements not to the useless debates...
To be fair, I don't think I mentioned any theories; only proven facts.
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  #307  
Old 13.12.2020, 07:57
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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…of course I did...but I not agree on those theories you persuading...I can bring up lot of arguments in defending my views, but will not, as on this forum my view is unpopular and will resume only to the statements not to the useless debates...
Please, present some logical and/or scientific arguments to support your views about why you do not vaccinate your children using the many safe existing vaccines to protect them from diseases. If you are so sure about what you are saying then it should be easy, right? It's clear none of your reasons will be supported by medical or scientific evidence and are based only on your own fears and superstitions.
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  #308  
Old 13.12.2020, 09:29
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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That is a fairly standard emergency use authorisation. I don't see it as a lukewarm endorsement. Regulators will always mention the possibility of adverse effects (every drug has them!), and if the drug is approved, that its benefits outweigh the risks.

On the contrary, the FDA has noted the vaccine's potential to change the course of the pandemic as its major benefit.
When you compare that to the UK/US government statements and then read the first words of the FDA public statement were 'While not an approval' along with 'because the vaccine’s known and potential benefits clearly outweigh its known and potential risks.' underscores insufficient safety information to not authorize. This language is repeatedly cited in their fact sheets to providers, like 'limited scientific information' and based on 'evidence to date'. Also why the qualifiers to the authorization of the use was only for those 16 years of age and older as well as allergy risks (Although this is oddly described)

The FDA Authorization letter also cites it is an investigational vaccine not licensed for any indication. The vote that was taken by the expert advisory panel to authorize was based solely on reviewing the available safety & effectiveness data Pfizer submitted - as again, there simply is no other data yet apart from their own in these 9-10 months

The fact sheet the FDA has devised for distribution to potential patients reads like this:

The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is a vaccine and may prevent you from getting COVID-19. There is no U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.


WHAT IS THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

WHO SHOULD NOT GET THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
You should not get the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine if you:
• had a severe allergic reaction after a previous dose of this vaccine
• had a severe allergic reaction to any ingredient of this vaccine

WHAT ARE THE INGREDIENTS IN THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
The Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine includes the following ingredients: mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose.

I am curious how anyone could be aware of allergies to any of these ingredients up front


There is a remote chance that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine could cause a severe allergic reaction. A severe allergic reaction would usually occur within a few minutes to one hour after getting a dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine.

Signs of a severe allergic reaction can include:
• Difficulty breathing
• Swelling of your face and throat
• A fast heartbeat
• A bad rash all over your body
• Dizziness and weakness

These may not be all the possible side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19
Vaccine. Serious and unexpected side effects may occur. Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is still being studied in clinical trials.


In terms of surveillance & pharmacovigilance post dosing, FDA is placing the onus on the patients rather than providers or Pfizer to spontaneously report to the FDA any AEs - so there will be no follow up.
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Old 13.12.2020, 09:50
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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The Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine includes the following ingredients: mRNA, lipids ((4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and cholesterol), potassium chloride, monobasic potassium phosphate, sodium chloride, dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and sucrose.

I am curious how anyone could be aware of allergies to any of these ingredients up front
Well I doubt anyone will be allergic to cholesterol, salt or sugar. I see no heavy metals or even aluminium. Out of 10s of thousand of volunteers only 2 reported any allergic reaction.

But’s that’s OK. I am not going to insist you have one of the vaccines. That is your decision and nobody is going to force you.

I, on the other hand will have one of the vaccines at the earliest possible moment, just like I have a flu jab every year and recently received boosters for previous vaccines (for which a blood test showed I had reduced immunity).

We will know a lot more after a few hundreds of thousands have had these new vaccines. We will see what we see.
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Old 13.12.2020, 10:06
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Well I doubt anyone will be allergic to cholesterol, salt or sugar. I see no heavy metals or even aluminium. Out of 10s of thousand of volunteers only 2 reported any allergic reaction.

But’s that’s OK. I am not going to insist you have one of the vaccines. That is your decision and nobody is going to force you.

I, on the other hand will have one of the vaccines at the earliest possible moment, just like I have a flu jab every year and recently received boosters for previous vaccines (for which a blood test showed I had reduced immunity).

We will know a lot more after a few hundreds of thousands have had these new vaccines. We will see what we see.
All of the things Barca is listing are standard warnings to reflect that the vaccine is not as thoroughly tested as the usual ones would when developed in the proper timeframes. They have to warn of the possible worst-case side and negative effects, because however unlikely people are to experience them they are still possible and that has to be made very clear otherwise they would be in a lot of trouble for not stating that. It's standard ethics and code of conduct.

In the end I don't get what point he is so laboriously trying to prove... we all know and have freely admitted and that it carries some potential risks, that is self-explanatory, but so far those risks have not been shows to be significant and the real-world tests have been very successful within the scope and duration that they were conducted, for which which I would be a good example of as a healthy male with no allergies or pre-existing conditions that I am aware of. If you are in one of the high risk groups that they say they have as yet not tested it on, such as pregnant people or children under 16, then you won't get it anyway.

I am happy making a choice based on the available information that the benefits of taking the vaccine and not getting COVID and being able to have a functioning society, outweigh the potential risks of any side effects I may experience. There are a lot of highly medically and scientifically qualified people who believe this vaccine is a good thing that can be approved for country-wide use on millions of people and I am inclined to trust their judgement far more than random unqualified people on internet forums, based as it is on detailed knowledge and expertise.
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Old 13.12.2020, 11:13
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Well I doubt anyone will be allergic to cholesterol, salt or sugar. I see no heavy metals or even aluminium. Out of 10s of thousand of volunteers only 2 reported any allergic reaction.

But’s that’s OK. I am not going to insist you have one of the vaccines. That is your decision and nobody is going to force you.

I, on the other hand will have one of the vaccines at the earliest possible moment, just like I have a flu jab every year and recently received boosters for previous vaccines (for which a blood test showed I had reduced immunity).

We will know a lot more after a few hundreds of thousands have had these new vaccines. We will see what we see.
I did not post this to highlight taking it or not, only to support my earlier comment that it was a lukewarm statement from the FDA - the details are relevant

I am also not suggesting to anyone on what to do, only to be informed as much as possible - that's generally the best way to make decisions

Also, your flu jab has nothing to do with this investigational one - they are about as related as apples & oranges
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Old 13.12.2020, 11:19
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

No @Chuff, you missed the details. One, for most experts <11 months of data is insufficient - even among the advisory panel from the FDA, it was not a unanimous decision to authorize. It is a risk mitigation scenario due to the unprecedented situation we are in and hence the emergency use - but only due to the circumstances else it would not be distributed to the masses

I have only reminded that there is indeed this risk and it is not a minor one knowing full well the alternative is no less minor. Moreover, so far is a myopic threshold to hang your hat on when this is never the metric for safety evaluations of any drug/vaccine - not sure why anyone would laboriously skirt that point
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Old 13.12.2020, 11:33
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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No @Chuff, you missed the details. One, for most experts <11 months of data is insufficient - even among the advisory panel from the FDA, it was not a unanimous decision to authorize. It is a risk mitigation scenario due to the unprecedented situation we are in and hence the emergency use - but only due to the circumstances else it would not be distributed to the masses

I have only reminded that there is indeed this risk and it is not a minor one knowing full well the alternative is no less minor. Moreover, so far is a myopic threshold to hang your hat on when this is never the metric for safety evaluations of any drug/vaccine - not sure why anyone would laboriously skirt that point
Skirting what? I accept the risk that is has only had around a year of testing, based on the evidence that has been provided, for the reasons I have clearly stated. No-one has 'denied' anything you have posted and I would strongly disagree that those potential risks of side effects or complications as a result of taking the vaccine per 1000 people are "no less minor" (I assume you meant significant) than the devastating long-term social and economic effects posed by COVID running rampant through the worlds unvaccinated population.
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  #314  
Old 13.12.2020, 11:48
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Because the US is so litigious, I would expect the FDA’s response to be more muted. And I believe that because the vaccine is still several months away for the average American, I suspect there are efforts to make sure people continue social distancing, masking and so again, the response is muted. I’m actually used to seeing responses like this in the US to counterbalance Pharma press releases.

At the same time, lots of doctors and researchers interviewed seem almost excited.
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Old 13.12.2020, 14:18
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Because the US is so litigious, I would expect the FDA’s response to be more muted. And I believe that because the vaccine is still several months away for the average American, I suspect there are efforts to make sure people continue social distancing, masking and so again, the response is muted. I’m actually used to seeing responses like this in the US to counterbalance Pharma press releases.

At the same time, lots of doctors and researchers interviewed seem almost excited.
I do not think that says that much. After a year of social distancing, no holidays, masks and loss of lives and jobs - people are bound to be excited. Everyone.

I think FCBar is pointing out that there is a reason to not overlook some data, in the midst of all the excitment. Local media here are quite sceptical, Berset must be too - he wouldn't have asked to tighten the measures otherwise. The way it is rushed in the US might be a political decision, in my opinion. I do not believe that CV matters here are under so much political pressure as they are in the US and UK. Hence the cautious vax approach.

It could be that the population is not to be trusted with distancing in places that rush to vax, before xmas.

In CZ the numbers are climbing, the rest of Europe seems to be in the same boat - lockdowns (CZ) or not (CH).
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Old 13.12.2020, 14:35
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I do not think that says that much. After a year of social distancing, no holidays, masks and loss of lives and jobs - people are bound to be excited. Everyone.

I think FCBar is pointing out that there is a reason to not overlook some data, in the midst of all the excitment. Local media here are quite sceptical, Berset must be too - he wouldn't have asked to tighten the measures otherwise. The way it is rushed in the US might be a political decision, in my opinion. I do not believe that CV matters here are under so much political pressure as they are in the US and UK. Hence the cautious vax approach.

It could be that the population is not to be trusted with distancing in places that rush to vax, before xmas.

In CZ the numbers are climbing, the rest of Europe seems to be in the same boat - lockdowns (CZ) or not (CH).
I have no idea what you’re trying to say about the US. I'm sure you are familiar with CZ, however.

But one thing to keep in mind, also - this is not an approval. It's an emergency use authorisation. Different things.

Last edited by ennui; 13.12.2020 at 15:03.
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Old 13.12.2020, 15:51
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I have no idea what you’re trying to say about the US. I'm sure you are familiar with CZ, however.

But one thing to keep in mind, also - this is not an approval. It's an emergency use authorisation. Different things.
Indeed and it speaks to an earlier post from Chuff that was borderline condescending for anyone who would exercise caution at jumping in for the vaccine

I have only underscored the fact that it is an unprecedented situation and while there are always risks with treatments/vaccines, there are a number of ways the risks are increased here. Recent survey from American Nursing Association show only 1/3 would agree to taking the vaccine themselves

I also believe people need to recognize that even with a possibly effective short term vaccine, the duration of protection & the risk of transmission remain unknowns - meaning, COVID will not be over. It is here for the foreseeable future

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Old 13.12.2020, 17:10
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

I understand folks who expect the vax to relieve some of the built up stress, humans can only rationally deal with this kind of health threat for so long. I can see the scepticism around me and I had to work non stop through the CV mess, if I don't count in the holidays (when we were not allowed to move much anyways, certainly not abroad). But I cannot ignore the fact that as with anything new - I wouldn't rely on vax. Not many people that I know do, in their attitudes. Half of Czechs will not go for it, that's data a few weeks old, we will see when the vax actually gets to the EE area. I can posture and encourage anyone to expect miracles, but as it is, we just don't know. And as I posted a few weeks back, it's premature to have an opinion when there is so little experience. I do rely on Swissmedic (they are delaying and going for the whole correct testing ordeal) and Berset (who is health focused AND econo-survival rational, wouldn't risk too much either way). So - to shame sceptics is probably a therapy for some, but I veer towards the caution, I think it will take a year to maybe know some certain strategy and start to implement it. I also think that forthcoming holidays will make a much bigger mess.
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  #319  
Old 13.12.2020, 21:12
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Given that the US has 20% of the covid cases and 4% of the population, the worsening economy, a number of hospitals reaching capacity and food insecurity, which is pretty incredible to be happening in the US, I believe that Emergency Use authorization may help. But it may not help as much as people would like. If it offers respite for health care workers, that’s a good thing.

As for Switzerland, some health stuff is wonderful here. Some stuff not, like everywhere else. For example, the reluctance to give the shingles vax to folks over 50, and the fact that basic insurance does not cover it is definitely not forward thinking.

The Swiss handling of Covid is meh, in my opinion. But I also think that in a public health crisis, federalism is not necessarily the best path. We’ve seen that in the US too.

As I’ve said before, I’m ready to get my vax, though I know I must wait. And it won’t be a panacea, no matter what, and people still have to practice some restraint.
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Old 13.12.2020, 21:22
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

I have taken plenty of vaccines as a kid and I think around 6-7 vaccines in one go when travelling recently. Once all of you have tested the vaccine thoroughly for me, I will most likely take this one too.

One thing I need to say about medicines etc in general is that even if 99% of people tolerate things it is no fun when you end up being part of the 1%.
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