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View Poll Results: Covid 19: Will you get the vaccination?
Yes, definitely 164 60.74%
Not sure. Let's wait and see 36 13.33%
No way. I don't need it 17 6.30%
What vaccine? 1 0.37%
Probably - but not straight away 39 14.44%
Only if they make me 13 4.81%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1001  
Old 01.06.2021, 10:46
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Calling me out for cherrypicking by cherrypicking India isn't a good look.
It's a perfectly valid response to your claim. Cherry-picking describes the practice of finding studies, data or articles that appears to support your pre-conceived ideas while failing to look at anything else, which is what you were doing; highlighting other instances that don't necessarily support them is exactly the opposite of cherry-picking.
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  #1002  
Old 01.06.2021, 10:47
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Or we could just look at the data. If you're healthy then you're far less likely to be affected severely by Covid. Governments would have been better telling people to hit the roadwork which might have actually saved some lives, rather than telling people to wear masks which have more than likely saved none.

CDC study finds about 78% of people hospitalized for Covid were overweight or obese

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covi...-or-obese.html
Healthy is just no pain or discomfort at the moment and it's a transient condition.

Healthy doesn't mean our antibodies have superpowers. We're as vulnerable to illness as people from the Paleolithic. The difference is that these days we keep causes of illness away: filters, disinfectants, antibiotics, etc. The few things that truly give superpowers to antibodies are vaccines.

Just look at all the dead in Switzerland. 97.5% were 60 years old and older. Lots of them were healthy and their bodies could not defeat the virus anyway. It almost looks like age is more relevant than body fat. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...p-switzerland/

So, anyone below 60 YO talking about healthy lifestyle, is only boasting about their life choices when the cause is just a functional body, genetics, etc. Anyone over 60, thin or fat, healthy or unhealthy, is in trouble.
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  #1003  
Old 01.06.2021, 10:51
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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It's a perfectly valid response to your claim. Cherry-picking describes the practice of finding studies, data or articles that appears to support your pre-conceived ideas, which is what you were doing; highlighting other instances that don't support them is exactly the opposite of cherry-picking.
No, and as a moderator you should be able to tell the difference. The article I posted was clearly an example showing that the overweight and obese (ie unhealthy) have been more severely impacted by Covid. This is well known and has been reported extensively. The exact opposite of cherrypicking.
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  #1004  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:09
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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The article I posted was clearly an example showing that the overweight and obese (ie unhealthy) have been more severely impacted by Covid.
Quite so, and no-one's disputing that. But for a balanced, non-cherry-picking approach, the meaning of which you don't seem to fully grasp, we need to look at the broader picture, not just one article, as per Tom's reply.
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  #1005  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:11
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Calling me out for cherrypicking by cherrypicking India isn't a good look. The findings for the overweight being more severely affected have been reported everywhere. India, that doesn't have an obesity problem, and which only spends about 1% GDP on healthcare is way behind us gluttons in the west in the Covid death rate rankings.
Let me help you prove your point: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw....-19/a-57188697

CZ, high death rate per capita and obesity. Beer link. I am sure they'd argue that it's not gluttony but necessity.
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  #1006  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:19
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Just look at all the dead in Switzerland. 97.5% were 60 years old and older. Lots of them were healthy and their bodies could not defeat the virus anyway. It almost looks like age is more relevant than body fat..
You can tell the body fat by looking at age stats?
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  #1007  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:22
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You can tell the body fat by looking at age stats?
Nope, I see age. If anyone could show body fat matters more than age please go ahead. If that were the case, the US or Mexico would have the 1st place in deaths/100K people.
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  #1008  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:27
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Calling me out for cherrypicking by cherrypicking India isn't a good look. The findings for the overweight being more severely affected have been reported everywhere. India, that doesn't have an obesity problem, and which only spends about 1% GDP on healthcare is way behind us gluttons in the west in the Covid death rate rankings.
I think that's more driven by age than weight though.
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  #1009  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:34
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Nope, I see age. If anyone could show body fat matters more than age please go ahead. If that were the case, the US or Mexico would have the 1st place in deaths/100K people.
They're not mutually exclusive factors. This is further clouded by the fact the the older people are the more likely they are to be overweight:



77% of people entering critical care in the UK due to Covid were also overweight, but on the face of it age does appear to be the biggest influencing factor.

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/03/04...d-back-better/

But to return to the original point, it is perfectly understandable why people have second thoughts about getting the vaccine. To be both young AND healthy reduces the risk posed by Covid massively. Coupled to that is that one first has to catch Covid (being healthy obviously doesn't help in that department).

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Nope, I see age. If anyone could show body fat matters more than age please go ahead. If that were the case, the US or Mexico would have the 1st place in deaths/100K people.
Then you have to factor in quality and access of health care available as well.
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  #1010  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:36
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Nope, I see age.
Of course you do. So you don't know the stats on weight related to death rate. Tony presented stats on weight. I did too. It is a pretty safe bet to say, as a bunch of scientists and media already have, that obesity is a big contributing factor. I haven't read him saying that age is not, maybe I missed it. I think govs couldn't promote healthy weight when people were not allowed to go anywhere really, reduce transport, gyms closed. Most people I know put on covid-kilos, and not just 1 or 2. I do not think that is good, especially for people over 60, as you say. Multifactorial mess.

We can call that cherry picking or, we can be tolerant of other people's opinions.
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  #1011  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:40
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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They're not mutually exclusive factors. This is further clouded by the fact the the older people are the more likely they are to be overweight:
There's a big jump from 16-24 YO to older cohorts. But, I see a flatline above 35 years old, between 65-75% of obese+overweight. Where are all the dead from covid19 in the 35-44 years old cohort?
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  #1012  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:49
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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There's a big jump from 16-24 YO to older cohorts. But, I see a flatline above 35 years old, between 65-75% of obese+overweight. Where are all the dead from covid19 in the 35-44 years old cohort?
That's the wrong question, you should be asking "what percentage of the Covid deaths of people between 35-44 years old were people who were overweight?"

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/...htm#contribAff

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.120.051936
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  #1013  
Old 01.06.2021, 11:50
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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We can call that cherry picking or, we can be tolerant of other people's opinions.
If it's an opinion, then they should make that clearer.

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While it's been shown that being overweight or obese increases your chance of COVID affecting you more severely...
Who's saying that surplus weight isn't a factor?
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  #1014  
Old 01.06.2021, 12:05
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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That's the wrong question, you should be asking "what percentage of the Covid deaths of people between 35-44 years old were people who were overweight?"

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/...htm#contribAff

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.120.051936
This is the context of the question you call the right one. Cannot see the bar for 9 and 36 deaths https://www.statista.com/statistics/...p-switzerland/ Check numbers around the world, the trend is about the same.

I'll venture to guess where the difference in opinion comes from. I'm looking at the public health. Other people may be worried about what can be done for their own health. Of course being athletic at 40 will reduce the risk, but the deaths of 40 years old are not relevant for the pandemic.


Last edited by Axa; 01.06.2021 at 12:17.
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  #1015  
Old 01.06.2021, 12:21
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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If it's an opinion, then they should make that clearer.
Is that your opinion?
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  #1016  
Old 01.06.2021, 13:06
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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This is the context of the question you call the right one. Cannot see the bar for 9 and 36 deaths https://www.statista.com/statistics/...p-switzerland/ Check numbers around the world, the trend is about the same.

I'll venture to guess where the difference in opinion comes from. I'm looking at the public health. Other people may be worried about what can be done for their own health. Of course being athletic at 40 will reduce the risk, but the deaths of 40 years old are not relevant for the pandemic.

Yes, I think we have been talking past each other somewhat. I don't dispute that age is likely the most significant factor influencing Covid outcomes. My point was rather that whilst one cannot influence ones age, health is something that in the vast majority of cases can be influenced through lifestyle. Being healthy, or rather, being of a healthy weight, drastically reduces the chances of being severely impacted by Covid.

Ultimately why I got the vaccine, was not because of my own health, nor others around me, but because I see vaccination as the only possible way out of lockdown restrictions. Aside from the first couple of months when it wasn't clear what we faced, I've not since been concerned with catching Covid.
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  #1017  
Old 01.06.2021, 13:19
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Is that your opinion?
Of course it's my opinion.

You, as a moderator, really ought to know that it's not stated in the forum rules.
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  #1018  
Old 01.06.2021, 13:21
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Ultimately why I got the vaccine, was not because of my own health, nor others around me, but because I see vaccination as the only possible way out of lockdown restrictions. Aside from the first couple of months when it wasn't clear what we faced, I've not since been concerned with catching Covid.

That basic sums up you and your cronies.

Not a very Christian attitude is it?
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  #1019  
Old 01.06.2021, 13:22
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Of course it's my opinion.
Glad you made that clear.
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  #1020  
Old 01.06.2021, 13:26
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Yes, I think we have been talking past each other somewhat. I don't dispute that age is likely the most significant factor influencing Covid outcomes. My point was rather that whilst one cannot influence ones age, health is something that in the vast majority of cases can be influenced through lifestyle. Being healthy, or rather, being of a healthy weight, drastically reduces the chances of being severely impacted by Covid.
It is interesting to see that there are older people now in the gym, too.
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