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View Poll Results: Covid 19: Will you get the vaccination?
Yes, definitely 164 60.74%
Not sure. Let's wait and see 36 13.33%
No way. I don't need it 17 6.30%
What vaccine? 1 0.37%
Probably - but not straight away 39 14.44%
Only if they make me 13 4.81%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1061  
Old 02.06.2021, 08:26
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Two studies from the same highly biased author. The first of these was discussed in the main Covid thread and demolished there, the second offers nothing new.

Meanwhile in Peru, 0.5% of the whole population (yes, 1 in 200 of everyone, regardless of whether they had the virus or not. Worst in Europe is apparently Hungary with 0.3% of the whole population. No extrapolation from dodgy antibody data, of the whole population. These results are coming from a Johns Hopkins study of excess mortality which - as everyone in the area knows - is the only true way of measuring the mortality of such a pandemic.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/peru-re...apita/46666182
It's one study actually, I just posted both links to show that it's been published on the WHO website. At least we know it's now been deboonked on the main Covid thread here though, shall I write to the WHO to warn them or will you do it?

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TC, what's up with the AZ vaccine? When did you change from the risk is far outweighed from the reward to unethical to killed by a vaccine against a virus with a 99.8% survival rate?

https://www.englishforum.ch/3286171-post22525.html
There is nothing wrong with the AZ vaccine, unless it's being administered to young people. There's a reason it's not being offered to those under 40 in the UK now, and that's because the risk of dying from a blood clot from taking the vaccine is higher than the risk posed by Covid. My mind was changed when the data proved the link, and this has now shown us why we need to take a far more cautious approach for the young with these vaccines.
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  #1062  
Old 02.06.2021, 08:29
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Obsessed much? Ironic that those who are happy to deride Christians for allegedly being more reluctant to take Covid vaccines seem equally willing to worship at the altars of mask efficacy, lockdowns and asymptomatic transmission, despite what data and science tells us about them
It's pretty clear from evidence that masks do work - not 100% in protecting the user but extremely effective in preventing the user from passing on the virus to others*

I'm not going to provide links to all that evidence as it's clear from your posts that you're just trolling.

* That word which you seem to find so offensive.
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  #1063  
Old 02.06.2021, 09:06
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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It's pretty clear from evidence that masks do work - not 100% in protecting the user but extremely effective in preventing the user from passing on the virus to others*

I'm not going to provide links to all that evidence as it's clear from your posts that you're just trolling.

* That word which you seem to find so offensive.
You won't provide links because you're in fact the troll, who has nothing of any value to add to a discussion other than to display your ignorance of religion.

I've provided countless links to support this, but one only has to look at the outcomes of mask mandates to see they have been completely pointless. This is why most US states have already lifted mask mandates.

"Mask mandates and use are not associated with slower state-level COVID-19 spread during COVID 19 growth surges"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...385v1.full.pdf
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  #1064  
Old 02.06.2021, 09:20
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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You won't provide links because you're in fact the troll, who has nothing of any value to add to a discussion other than to display your ignorance of religion.

I've provided countless links to support this, but one only has to look at the outcomes of mask mandates to see they have been completely pointless. This is why most US states have already lifted mask mandates.

"Mask mandates and use are not associated with slower state-level COVID-19 spread during COVID 19 growth surges"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...385v1.full.pdf

Front page of that very site:

'Preprints are preliminary reports of work that have not been certified by peer review. They should not be relied on to guide clinical practice or health-related behavior and should not be reported in news media as established information.'

Probably not the best site to link up for evidence.
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  #1065  
Old 02.06.2021, 09:25
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Front page of that very site:

'Preprints are preliminary reports of work that have not been certified by peer review. They should not be relied on to guide clinical practice or health-related behavior and should not be reported in news media as established information.'
It was only published last week, of course it's not been peer reviewed yet. Given the nature of the study, it's hardly likely that it won't pass peer review. Just because it hasn't been peer reviewed, also doesn't disqualify it as being irrelevant.

Actually, on the topic of peer review, an interesting video worth a couple of minutes of your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkXZ3_ZmKzw
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  #1066  
Old 02.06.2021, 09:28
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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It was only published last week, of course it's not been peer reviewed yet. Given the nature of the study, it's hardly likely that it won't pass peer review.
So therefore quite frankly of little use to prove your point regarding lack of mask usefulness, when there are actual peer reviewed ones which confirmed the opposite.
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  #1067  
Old 02.06.2021, 09:34
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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So therefore quite frankly of little use to prove your point regarding lack of mask usefulness, when there are actual peer reviewed ones which confirmed the opposite.
The only peer reviewed RCT said that mask mandates did nothing.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
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  #1068  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:29
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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There is nothing wrong with the AZ vaccine, unless it's being administered to young people. There's a reason it's not being offered to those under 40 in the UK now, and that's because the risk of dying from a blood clot from taking the vaccine is higher than the risk posed by Covid. My mind was changed when the data proved the link, and this has now shown us why we need to take a far more cautious approach for the young with these vaccines.
So, did some EU politicians (Macron) talked bad about the AZ vaccine as revenge to the UK? Yes or no?
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  #1069  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:38
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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So, did some EU politicians (Macron) talked bad about the AZ vaccine as revenge to the UK? Yes or no?
I believe so, yes. President Macron said AZ was "quasi-ineffective" on older people which we now know to be completely wrong. At the time they said the reason for this was because of the lack of data provided for older people by AZ. The lack of data doesn't make the vaccine "quasi-ineffective" though. I'm not really sure where you're going with this
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  #1070  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:44
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I believe so, yes. President Macron said AZ was "quasi-ineffective" on older people which we now know to be completely wrong. At the time they said the reason for this was because of the lack of data provided for older people by AZ. The lack of data doesn't make the vaccine "quasi-ineffective" though. I'm not really sure where you're going with this
That initial skepticism for the AZ vaccine was declared as anti-UK politics. Now you joined the skeptics.
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  #1071  
Old 02.06.2021, 10:46
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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You won't provide links because you're in fact the troll, who has nothing of any value to add to a discussion other than to display your ignorance of religion.
I think my knowledge of religion is pretty sound.
I even quoted a verse or two about helping others before helping yourself and so on but you chose to mock me. Your interpretation is obviously very different or you have no real understanding.

But back to masks (and science)...
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  #1072  
Old 02.06.2021, 11:18
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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That initial skepticism for the AZ vaccine was declared as anti-UK politics. Now you joined the skeptics.
The blood clot findings came off the back of a significant amount bad press for AZ, much of it unwarranted. From fulfilling contracts to questioning its efficacy. We've now seen AZ do much of the heavy lifting in getting the UK successfully vaccinated. Stating that young people shouldn't be pressurized into taking a vaccine, isn't the same as being skeptical that a vaccine works.
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  #1073  
Old 02.06.2021, 11:50
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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The only peer reviewed RCT said that mask mandates did nothing.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
Whereas a review of a large number of separately reviewed studies actually says masks clearly do help:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e...b-figures-data

There are other similar reviews which say the same such as this one:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...142-9/fulltext

I"m not quite sure how people like yourself can still actually claim that masks don't help spread it when almost all studies say they do. I don't disagree that social distancing measures are also a contributory factor but masks are right up there as well.
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  #1074  
Old 02.06.2021, 12:00
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I"m not quite sure how people like yourself can still actually claim that masks don't help spread it when almost all studies say they do.
Haven't you figured out that he's actively trolling the forum yet? The more people read, reply and earnestly respond to his many ridiculous statements then the longer it will go on.
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Old 02.06.2021, 12:07
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Whereas a review of a large number of separately reviewed studies actually says masks clearly do help:

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e...b-figures-data

There are other similar reviews which say the same such as this one:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...142-9/fulltext
There's a known phenomenon, especially amongst conspiracy theorists (and creationists), for example.

If they are trying to disprove something that has been widely accepted by the scientific or other community, they will cling on to the one or two reports that gives data that supports their point of view.

Metadata, such as that published by Cochrane, can be useful in these cases as it helps to disregard the one or two conflicting papers that may exist due to faulty data gathering or analysis or be statistically insignificant.
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  #1076  
Old 02.06.2021, 13:07
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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You won't provide links because you're in fact the troll, who has nothing of any value to add to a discussion other than to display your ignorance of religion.

I've provided countless links to support this, but one only has to look at the outcomes of mask mandates to see they have been completely pointless. This is why most US states have already lifted mask mandates.

"Mask mandates and use are not associated with slower state-level COVID-19 spread during COVID 19 growth surges"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...385v1.full.pdf
And by coincidence today, just appeared in the Tagi...

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Masks at schools do have an effect (Masken an den Schulen wirken eben doch)
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/masken-...h-712315018211 (requires registration)
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  #1077  
Old 02.06.2021, 13:10
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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There's a known phenomenon, especially amongst conspiracy theorists (and creationists), for example.

If they are trying to disprove something that has been widely accepted by the scientific or other community, they will cling on to the one or two reports that gives data that supports their point of view.

Metadata, such as that published by Cochrane, can be useful in these cases as it helps to disregard the one or two conflicting papers that may exist due to faulty data gathering or analysis or be statistically insignificant.
Not even all metastudies are safe. Some - like the 1 or 2 quoted by Clifton yesterday claiming an 0.2% death rate from Covid - achieve the same by being highly selective in which papers they include.

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...But back to .... science...
Don't confuse him by bringing science into it.
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  #1078  
Old 02.06.2021, 13:21
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

In Kt Zurich there were 6% of kids with antibodies in November and 20% in April. The proportion was similar in all age groups and only slightly less in Oberstufe. Oh, yes, the masks definitely work.
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  #1079  
Old 02.06.2021, 13:50
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I suppose it depends on the doctor. I'd heard of alternating, but I'd never been prescribed both at the same time until I had surgery a few years ago here in CH.

I left the hospital without any narcotics - just a script to take 500 mg of paracetamol with 400 mg of ibuprofen (and food) every 4-6 hours. It didn't completely eliminate the pain but it was mostly manageable.
For pain relief following surgery recently, I was prescribed 600mg ibuprofen, 3x per day plus (if required) 1g paracetamol, 4x per day. Fortunately I have quite high tolerance of pain and got by just fine on the ibuprofen alone—and even then, I'm not sure I needed it (or not that much).

These drugs are very commonly used, very safe when used as directed, and available OTC, of course, but one should not take them in these quantities without approval from a physician.
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Old 02.06.2021, 15:15
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Not even all metastudies are safe. Some - like the 1 or 2 quoted by Clifton yesterday claiming an 0.2% death rate from Covid - achieve the same by being highly selective in which papers they include.


Don't confuse him by bringing science into it.
Im not a scientist anymore, but have a PhD in chemistry and have had a few papers published.

My advice: be extremely skeptical of anything trying to capture data on something as difficult to measure as mask efficacy (to a lesser extent death rates). Even if it is published. Being published means it follows the scientific method and (at least for the better journals) is interesting, not that it is correct. There is a very strong herd mentality amongst scientists and sometimes wrong but accepted facts linger longer than they should. FWIW I think there's decent evidence that good masks worn properly help, but that the evidence regarding masks in the general population is too weak to draw a conclusion on. Personally I'm rather skeptical the effect is big (although accept it could be slightly beneficial) - but I very much could be wrong.

FWIW "death rate" is kind of unclear without defining your population. It certainly isn't as low as 0.2% in Western Europe or the US - some countries have simply had too many deaths for that. For the (much younger and slimmer) world population - maybe.
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