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View Poll Results: Covid 19: Will you get the vaccination?
Yes, definitely 164 60.74%
Not sure. Let's wait and see 36 13.33%
No way. I don't need it 17 6.30%
What vaccine? 1 0.37%
Probably - but not straight away 39 14.44%
Only if they make me 13 4.81%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1081  
Old 02.06.2021, 16:01
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Im not a scientist anymore, but have a PhD in chemistry and have had a few papers published.

My advice: be extremely skeptical of anything trying to capture data on something as difficult to measure as mask efficacy (to a lesser extent death rates). Even if it is published. Being published means it follows the scientific method and (at least for the better journals) is interesting, not that it is correct. There is a very strong herd mentality amongst scientists and sometimes wrong but accepted facts linger longer than they should. FWIW I think there's decent evidence that good masks worn properly help, but that the evidence regarding masks in the general population is too weak to draw a conclusion on. Personally I'm rather skeptical the effect is big (although accept it could be slightly beneficial) - but I very much could be wrong.

FWIW "death rate" is kind of unclear without defining your population. It certainly isn't as low as 0.2% in Western Europe or the US - some countries have simply had too many deaths for that. For the (much younger and slimmer) world population - maybe.
It's always going to be difficult to estimate the death rate from Covid given the different standards of reporting from various countries, coupled with the issue that the death rate in the West is almost certainly being over reported whilst the infection rate is being under reported.

The CDC has estimated the crude infection fatality rate to be 0.7%, ultimately this doesn't matter in relation to the risk to young people, as it is virtually accepted by all that the infection fatality rate for the young is significantly below the crude 0.2% rate estimated by Professor Ioannidis.

https://www.cdc.gov/library/covid19/...vidupdate.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...197?via%3Dihub
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  #1082  
Old 02.06.2021, 16:14
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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For pain relief following surgery recently, I was prescribed 600mg ibuprofen, 3x per day plus (if required) 1g paracetamol, 4x per day. Fortunately I have quite high tolerance of pain and got by just fine on the ibuprofen alone—and even then, I'm not sure I needed it (or not that much).
Absolutely normal in those doses. I was on that regime, per prescription, for several years, although I didn't always use that much, particularly not the paracetamol.

But the idea of a High Pain Tolerance is a bit of a red herring TBH. It's not about how much you can take, but how much you actually feel. There are various syndromes including one named fibromyalgia that are used to categorise people who feel a lot of pain all the time, without any clear cause, and it seems likely that the brain has somehow reset its sensitivity to stimuli and somehow perceives pain signals either when they're not actually being generated by sensory organs or that are somehow amplified and perceived by the brain as much stringer than they are.

Sadly I've been in this category for a number of years, and often need to take painkillers, at well below the doses discussed above, just to be able to function normally. The irony being that I don't actually feel like I'm in pain most of the time, as I'm just used to pain levels that previously might have been up to 3-4 out of ten as being a base line. So in a sense my pain tolerance is high, i.e. I don't notice the pain, but the effect on the body, particularly via mechanisms like being unable to sleep properly and general tiredness, is every bit as great as if I were feeling it all the time. I often take a couple of paracetamol at night to help me sleep, even though I'm not actively feeling like something is hurting more than normal.
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  #1083  
Old 03.06.2021, 03:08
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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"He" creates them on the fly
What's he doing on the fly, the poor thing? Can't he WFH like everybody else!?!
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  #1084  
Old 03.06.2021, 13:45
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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And by coincidence today, just appeared in the Tagi...

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/masken-...h-712315018211 (requires registration)
KiGa is only 2 years, vs 3 for the school "Stufe" (e.g. grades 1-3), by children attending its overweight in early March is even bigger than it appears at a glance.
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  #1085  
Old 25.06.2021, 09:03
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

A peer reviewed paper has come to the conclusion that the benefit of the vaccines may not be worth the risk. The paper places the risk from Covid and the vaccines in the same order of magnitude.

The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm

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For three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination. Conclusions: This lack of clear benefit should cause governments to rethink their vaccination policy.
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  #1086  
Old 25.06.2021, 09:08
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

The conclusion from the above paper:

5. Conclusions
The present assessment raises the question whether it would be necessary to rethink policies and use COVID-19 vaccines more sparingly and with some discretion only in those that are willing to accept the risk because they feel more at risk from the true infection than the mock infection. Perhaps it might be necessary to dampen the enthusiasm by sober facts? In our view, the EMA and national authorities should instigate a safety review into the safety database of COVID-19 vaccines and governments should carefully consider their policies in light of these data. Ideally, independent scientists should carry out thorough case reviews of the very severe cases, so that there can be evidence-based recommendations on who is likely to benefit from a SARS-CoV2 vaccination and who is in danger of suffering from side effects. Currently, our estimates show that we have to accept four fatal and 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations in order to save the lives of 2–11 individuals per 100,000 vaccinations, placing risks and benefits on the same order of magnitude.


And yet, Covid deaths are down and ICU units are no longer packed to the brim with COVID patients. How does one explain that?
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  #1087  
Old 25.06.2021, 09:57
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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The conclusion from the above paper:

5. Conclusions
The present assessment raises the question whether it would be necessary to rethink policies and use COVID-19 vaccines more sparingly and with some discretion only in those that are willing to accept the risk because they feel more at risk from the true infection than the mock infection. Perhaps it might be necessary to dampen the enthusiasm by sober facts? In our view, the EMA and national authorities should instigate a safety review into the safety database of COVID-19 vaccines and governments should carefully consider their policies in light of these data. Ideally, independent scientists should carry out thorough case reviews of the very severe cases, so that there can be evidence-based recommendations on who is likely to benefit from a SARS-CoV2 vaccination and who is in danger of suffering from side effects. Currently, our estimates show that we have to accept four fatal and 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations in order to save the lives of 2–11 individuals per 100,000 vaccinations, placing risks and benefits on the same order of magnitude.


And yet, Covid deaths are down and ICU units are no longer packed to the brim with COVID patients. How does one explain that?
I don't think there's any debate as to whether the vaccines are effective or not, it's more the point that vaccines need to be effective AND safe. The more data that comes out, the more questionable the second part is, certainly for people who are young/middle aged and healthy.
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  #1088  
Old 25.06.2021, 10:00
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I don't think there's any debate as to whether the vaccines are effective or not, it's more the point that vaccines need to be effective AND safe. The more data that comes out, the more questionable the second part is, certainly for people who are young/middle aged and healthy.
So, worries for healthy people. Common people drinking and smoking don't have to worry about that. When you read the obituaries, only the good die young
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  #1089  
Old 25.06.2021, 12:31
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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A peer reviewed paper has come to the conclusion that the benefit of the vaccines may not be worth the risk. The paper places the risk from Covid and the vaccines in the same order of magnitude.

The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm
It seems to be general consensus by now that, given enough time, you get immunised against covid anyway, either by vaccination or by natural infection. The result should be immunisation above herd immunity level, which is expected to be at around, or somewhere above, 75% of any population. That assumes unlimited time, or sufficiently long however long that needs to be.

On the other hand any study will limit the observation by time, that's an inherent necessity. An additional reason in this case seems likely to be that the "environmental" threat, i.e. that of natural infection, can't change too much during the observed time, lest the data from the start aren't comparable to those from later stages. For instance if the study had observed Israel's entire vaccination campaign, that change would probably have been too large, thus the additional likely reason to limit the scope by time.

However, the result of that time-limit is that the first assumption doesn't apply, simply because the virus hasn't been allowed enough time to work its way through the population.

The consequence is that the measured benefit (i.e. avoided infections and deaths) considered by the study is far too low.
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  #1090  
Old 25.06.2021, 12:58
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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And yet, Covid deaths are down and ICU units are no longer packed to the brim with COVID patients. How does one explain that?
looking at official data at covid19.admin.ch:
- deaths were down also last summer, without the vaccine.
- ICUs were never really "packed to the brim"
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  #1091  
Old 03.08.2021, 11:05
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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A peer reviewed paper has come to the conclusion that the benefit of the vaccines may not be worth the risk. The paper places the risk from Covid and the vaccines in the same order of magnitude.

The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm
Please note the article you mention was retracted a few days after publication:

"Unfortunately, in the manuscript by Harald Walach et al. these data were incorrectly interpreted which led to erroneous conclusions. The data was presented as being causally related to adverse events by the authors. This is inaccurate."

Full text here: https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/729
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  #1092  
Old 20.08.2021, 12:20
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Please note the article you mention was retracted a few days after publication:

"Unfortunately, in the manuscript by Harald Walach et al. these data were incorrectly interpreted which led to erroneous conclusions. The data was presented as being causally related to adverse events by the authors. This is inaccurate."

Full text here: https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/729
A lesson for those who love to throw around "peer reviewed" but don't understand that peer reviewed doesn't necessarily mean peer approved.
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  #1093  
Old 20.08.2021, 12:45
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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A peer reviewed paper has come to the conclusion that the benefit of the vaccines may not be worth the risk. The paper places the risk from Covid and the vaccines in the same order of magnitude.

The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm
The paper has been retracted...
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  #1094  
Old 20.08.2021, 13:06
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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A peer reviewed paper has come to the conclusion that the benefit of the vaccines may not be worth the risk. The paper places the risk from Covid and the vaccines in the same order of magnitude.

The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm

I posted this this moring on the Coronavirus thread, but no one there interested in anything but being the smartest poster:

https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/voll...-seine-grenzen
(In German)

„All patients in the intensive care unit are not vaccinated.“
Author: Christoph Henzen
Pandemic staff head Lucerne Cantonal Hospital

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  #1095  
Old 20.08.2021, 13:09
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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The paper has been retracted...
Most people reading that paper knows it is complete and utter BS. Except of course those few such as TrollyClifton who have a clear agenda of trying to rubbish COVID measures and vaccines and who will ignore common sense in pursuit of it. I do almost envy people who seem to be able to suppress any sense of shame.
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Old 20.08.2021, 13:11
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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I posted this this moring on the Coronavirus thread, but no one there interested in anything but being the smartest poster:

https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/voll...-seine-grenzen
(In German)

„All patients in the intensive care unit are not vaccinated.“
Author: Christoph Henzen
Pandemic staff head Lucerne Cantonal Hospital

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Your link returns a 404!
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  #1097  
Old 20.08.2021, 13:16
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

Paper was peer reviewed at the time I posted, then retracted, it happens. I made no comment on it, other than the findings of the paper. If people feel misled then address it to MDPI, who had it published in the first place, not me
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  #1098  
Old 20.08.2021, 13:45
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Paper was peer reviewed at the time I posted, then retracted, it happens. I made no comment on it, other than the findings of the paper. If people feel misled then address it to MDPI, who had it published in the first place, not me
The peer review process imho is was Bit of a waste of time. I had 4 papers published with my PhD supervisor and his mates did the peer review. It's good for picking up minor errors but for whether stuff is accepted or not. Not really a good system
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Old 20.08.2021, 13:57
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Your link returns a 404!
Sorry lost in copy and paste. Try this:

https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/voll...-seine-grenzen
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Old 20.08.2021, 13:57
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Re: Covid Vaccine: Will you get it?

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Paper was peer reviewed at the time I posted, then retracted, it happens. I made no comment on it, other than the findings of the paper.
At least other people seemed more on the ball than you:

After reading the paper's conclusion, Olygirl wrote the following after reading the conclusion:

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5. Conclusions.....

And yet, Covid deaths are down and ICU units are no longer packed to the brim with COVID patients. How does one explain that?
Perhaps this COVID analysis isn't really your thing and you ought to give it a rest and spend more time on some of the other threads?
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