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  #141  
Old 27.01.2021, 15:49
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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There's always divorce.

Or come out as transsexual.

Tom
Is that the way they do it in Ticino?
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  #142  
Old 27.01.2021, 17:02
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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My brothers have fallen out over money and possessions - and I have been pig in the middle, trying to mend things- but enough is enough now. I think they would have sorted things out between themselves- but it is their wives that fanned the flammes, again and again. Least said.
Interesting you added this bit.

I have heard SO many people who are on the husband/boyfriend's side of the family, put the blame on their wives/girlfriends rather than the men/boys on their own side. And it's mostly from the female members of the family like their mother or sister. Hmm.....interesting....

PS. I do feel for you having had to be the one in the middle being their mediator, not fun!
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  #143  
Old 27.01.2021, 17:40
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

It is very interesting indeed. My mother and sister in law fell out- I was nowhere near and kept well out of it. But became pig the middle all the same, whether I wanted it or not.
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  #144  
Old 27.01.2021, 17:53
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

Hi Elu,
We have 3 and I wanted/pushed for the 3rd, mr. irish_marmot didnt want a third was happy with 2 but didnt not want it enough to veto the idea.


We decided to go for a third and if it worked (we had had many miscarriages) great and if not we would stick and be happy with 2.



So number 3 came , in fact trying for number 3 was the only time I hadnt had a miscarriage, there were multiple unfortunately before the others.



There are some great great posts on here about 3 and a very funny one up above GParker "3 grudges, 3 injustices, 3 wars of attrition, 3 retaliations. 3 doors slammed." really made me laugh. The weird thing is when we started out I didnt want kids really at all or at least I was kinda "meh" about the idea. Mr. Irish_marmot was the broody one.


For me 1 child was like introducing a goat into our lifestyle. Bit crazy, big change, difficult to manage, eats lots of stuff it shouldnt, difficult to take on airplanes, poos in lots of places it shouldnt, climbs on furniture. But 2 children was like having 20 goats, sheer and utter chaos. No hope of staying on top of things. So for me a third child was like someone coming along and saying "would you have another goat to join the 21 goats trashing your appartment, lifestyle and agenda". Sure why not.


Honestly, from where I am at right now I can only see the positives. The three are quite close in age. Fight like mad things but entertain oneanother too and are marvellously funny.



We also (saved) and bought a model X - mr. irish_marmot sometimes retires out to the model X when things are a bit mad.


Best of luck to you and Mrs. Elu, you wouldnt regret it.

IM.
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  #145  
Old 30.01.2021, 06:48
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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As an only child, I can say that if I ever have kids I will be aiming to have two within 2 years of the other because there are just so many benefits to that. Having a playmate for your entire childhood and an additional emotional support and someone to help look out for you during your entire lifetime is something that imo you can't put a price on.

Of course I am assuming that the kids don't turn out to hate each other as they grow up, but I think that is unusual if you do a decent job of raising them in a stable environment.
You are basing a decision on something you did not experience and as such have an idealized view on.
Also realize that while you might know some people who complain about being an only child, way less people that have a sibling would say the opposite in public (because now it's about a person they would have rather done without instead of a hypothetical person you think you would have liked).
My opinion: if the parents are good people being an only child is superior in general.
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  #146  
Old 01.02.2021, 10:13
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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My opinion: if the parents are good people being an only child is superior in general.

I get your point & you have qualified it with "in general" but parents though cannot give everything, and sometimes their attention is not what the kid needs. Right now, my middle child is being bullied and ostracized in her class. Its one of these situations where I could intervene (ring the parents of the child in question that is ring leading the bullying) but ultimately intervening will only achieve so much & she doesnt want me to. She comes home in tears every day. It absolutely breaks my heart. So what I can do is ask her sisters (who are in the same playground) to look out for her. Her older sister is one year older and is one of these people who seems to always have friends, her younger sister has a group of friends as well. So between them they help her most days and it minimizes the exposure she has to have to these peers that just dont like her for whatever reason. I know ultimately the bullies will move on and pick another victim once my daughter stops being a focus of entertainment, I also know that this is something she has to learn to cope with or push back on - but it is a massive relief to her (and to me) that she has her own groups to switch to via her sisters.



Looking out for her in the playground is not something I or my other half can do no matter how "good" we are.


Its just one example.
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  #147  
Old 01.02.2021, 10:33
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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You are basing a decision on something you did not experience and as such have an idealized view on.
Also realize that while you might know some people who complain about being an only child, way less people that have a sibling would say the opposite in public (because now it's about a person they would have rather done without instead of a hypothetical person you think you would have liked).
My opinion: if the parents are good people being an only child is superior in general.
I benefited a lot from being an only child, I have to admit this. It became very difficult in my teen years as my parents did not know how to let go, especially my poor mother who did not work.

As a child, I most definitely wanted a sibling...but it helped me to become more independent and I entertain myself quite well to this day. As an adult, I would love to have a sibling to share childhood memories and the duty of caring for parents in their older age. My mother passed 12 years ago and that was very difficult to go through alone.
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  #148  
Old 01.02.2021, 10:39
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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She comes home in tears every day. It absolutely breaks my heart. So what I can do is ask her sisters (who are in the same playground) to look out for her. Her older sister is one year older and is one of these people who seems to always have friends, her younger sister has a group of friends as well. So between them they help her most days and it minimizes the exposure she has to have to these peers that just dont like her for whatever reason.
I was badly bullied in junior high school. I was 13 and my sister was 15. She looked out for me and I remember this one time, she came into my classroom (her friend tagging along) and very strongly told the bullies off. Felt so good! Some bullies stopped, others continued but I felt safe with my sister being in the same school for a year. My family and dog(s) were always my biggest support.

I am really sorry to hear your daughter being bullied. I really hope that she will have friends who will stand up for her...and that it will stop. My stress level was so bad I developed alopecia (thankfully it grew back). One thing I can say though, is that having gone through those painful years, it has made me a very compassionate and empathetic person. My very best wishes to your daughter!
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  #149  
Old 01.02.2021, 12:10
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

You wrote this:

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You are basing a decision on something you did not experience and as such have an idealized view on.
Also realize that while you might know some people who complain about being an only child, way less people that have a sibling would say the opposite in public (because now it's about a person they would have rather done without instead of a hypothetical person you think you would have liked).

And then this:

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My opinion: if the parents are good people being an only child is superior in general.
You can't possibly have been an only child yourself and had siblings at the same time so you too are basing your opinion on least one experience which you did not have.

Bit hypocritical if you ask me...
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  #150  
Old 01.02.2021, 13:39
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

As a father who had kids in his late thirties I can understand maybe where you're coming from. Life doesn't get easier as you get older, it gets harder. When you twenty you can stay up all night, no problem. When you're 50, it'll take you down for at three days....

And well I guess it also depends on what sort of parent you are. Will you be expecting the older one to start to pull his/her weight in the family more. You see those sort of dynamics working in larger families. How do your current siblings feel about a new brother/sister joining the clan.

Does your wife ask you to play a very active role with the kids? Do you feel now is the time to focus on your career? If you want to talk about it on EF you need to speak your mind so that others can offer you their 2 cents.
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  #151  
Old 01.02.2021, 14:26
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

A colleague in the UK and her new OH, adopted 3 sibblings, aged around 2, 3.5 and 6 - when the Law changed re max age for adoption- and they were both in mid 50s. Lost contact but often wonder how they got on. Having 3 teenagers when pushing 70 ... would have pushed us off our limits, for sure.

As for me, I was far too young - 22, when we had our first and 25 for second. Without family support and OH working all hours night and day- it sometimes felt just a bit too much- but we all made it somehow. And now I am really glad I was young, for sure.
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  #152  
Old 01.02.2021, 16:40
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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I get your point & you have qualified it with "in general" but parents though cannot give everything, and sometimes their attention is not what the kid needs. Right now, my middle child is being bullied and ostracized in her class. Its one of these situations where I could intervene (ring the parents of the child in question that is ring leading the bullying) but ultimately intervening will only achieve so much & she doesnt want me to. She comes home in tears every day. It absolutely breaks my heart. So what I can do is ask her sisters (who are in the same playground) to look out for her. Her older sister is one year older and is one of these people who seems to always have friends, her younger sister has a group of friends as well. So between them they help her most days and it minimizes the exposure she has to have to these peers that just dont like her for whatever reason. I know ultimately the bullies will move on and pick another victim once my daughter stops being a focus of entertainment, I also know that this is something she has to learn to cope with or push back on - but it is a massive relief to her (and to me) that she has her own groups to switch to via her sisters.

Looking out for her in the playground is not something I or my other half can do no matter how "good" we are.

Its just one example.
I was often bullied by girls in high school, including a group of girls on my bus. I absolutely dreaded having to take that bus to and from school every day. Then one day, I guess I just finally had enough and I stood up to them. The bullying immediately stopped after that. I could tell they were completely shocked that I had stood up to them, and I realized that by doing so, I had taken their power away from them. Because that's what bullying is about -- power.

A similar situation happened in my gym class when a group of about 5 girls would try to bully me every day, even getting physical with trying to knock me over during basketball, etc. Then once again, I guess I just finally had enough, and I stood up to them. And once again, their bullying immediately stopped after that.

Has your daughter ever tried to stand up to them, verbally? Standing up to them might be the best way for her to take away their power and their ability to derive a sense of power in their ability to bully her, because if they realize that she's not going to put up with it, their behavior very well might stop. Most of these bullies are just "all talk" -- trying to show off in front of their friends. But if you switch the script and make THEM feel stupid, then it's usually "game over."

Anyways... I guess that's just my "two cents" on it. But I guess I learned in two different scenarios in school that the best way to get bullying to stop is to stand up to them.
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  #153  
Old 01.02.2021, 19:11
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

I've lost track of posts so apologies if this was already raised. A recent event brought it to mind.

As you discuss your options, have the hard talk - how will one of you cope if the other suddenly is incapacitated or dies, particularly if all the kids are still young? If something happens to both of you, who is able to take your children as a group?

The wife of a friend of mine as recently diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and it went so fast, she died within two weeks. She was 38. He is now a widower with six children under the age of 10. I know three is not the same as six but to say he's overwhelmed would be a massive understatement.
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  #154  
Old 01.02.2021, 19:32
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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As a father who had kids in his late thirties I can understand maybe where you're coming from. Life doesn't get easier as you get older, it gets harder. When you twenty you can stay up all night, no problem. When you're 50, it'll take you down for at three days....

And well I guess it also depends on what sort of parent you are. Will you be expecting the older one to start to pull his/her weight in the family more. You see those sort of dynamics working in larger families. How do your current siblings feel about a new brother/sister joining the clan.
You reminded me somebody telling me how happy he was anytime there was a new sibling or a baby cow, dog, horse, cat or a donkey baby.

The best part about growing up with siblings was that were were really autonomous. Parents had crazy shifts and intense careers but we were a team, still are really tight. Used to running home basically, dividing labor, each being responible for a part. Each of us had a list of housework we were in charge of. If we were just two, I think parents would feel like they need to supervise more, but a group of kids is really strong and capable together and safer, I think. We still operate that way together, no matter where we are. And are still a bit too autonomous for our own good.
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  #155  
Old 01.02.2021, 22:55
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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As a father who had kids in his late thirties I can understand maybe where you're coming from. Life doesn't get easier as you get older, it gets harder. When you twenty you can stay up all night, no problem. When you're 50, it'll take you down for at three days....
I'm glad I didn't have kids until my mid 30s tbh. Career established, loads of travelling done and life lived.

I don't think multiple broken nights is anything other than vile no matter what age you are.
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  #156  
Old 02.02.2021, 00:11
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

ah well, sometimes things don't always quite go to plan - and there are pros and cons always. Going to Uni as a mature student when our youngest started school, was very 'liberating', and then as a mature new teacher- career progression was fast. Horses, courses - to some extent - fate. That's OK. One kid will soon be 50- now THAT is a shock, for sure.

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  #157  
Old 02.02.2021, 00:13
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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- Travel: Hotels believe a family need 1 double and 2 single beds. When you eventually get out of the hotel you discover every attraction sells 2 adult, 2 children family tickets.
I have 3 kids, currently aged 20, 16 and 12. But there were little at multiple points in the past.

Of this list, this is the only point that ever happened to us. It also applies to cruises, domestic attractions et al.
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  #158  
Old 02.02.2021, 00:59
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

...in my case it was vice versa, I want the third, but she want to pursue her photography career, then we stopped at two...
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Old 02.02.2021, 18:21
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

I have a niece who has 3, and always says she really wants a 4th- usually in the same sentence as complaining bitterly she has no time for herself and the kids are driving her nuts.
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Old 02.02.2021, 19:36
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Re: Asking for advice: Wife wants a third child, I don't

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I've lost track of posts so apologies if this was already raised. A recent event brought it to mind.

As you discuss your options, have the hard talk - how will one of you cope if the other suddenly is incapacitated or dies, particularly if all the kids are still young? If something happens to both of you, who is able to take your children as a group?

The wife of a friend of mine as recently diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and it went so fast, she died within two weeks. She was 38. He is now a widower with six children under the age of 10. I know three is not the same as six but to say he's overwhelmed would be a massive understatement.
My Solicitor from ZH when aged 49 married a woman of 36, she died at 39, 3 weeks after their second child was born. He never expected to be a single Father at 52.
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