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View Poll Results: Moderna Vaccine side effects
Mild side effects. No time off work. 28 63.64%
Moderate side effects. Time off work - 1 to 2 days 14 31.82%
Serious side effects - more than 2 days off work 2 4.55%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #621  
Old 19.05.2021, 10:51
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Do you not see the difference though between diseases like Polio and Smallpox and Covid? Unlike these diseases, Covid doesn't really affect the young.
Rubella doesn't either but the vaccination is given to children to protect the unborn babies of pregnant women.

It's that helping others thing again...
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  #622  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:03
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Now do smokers, drug/alcohol abusers and the obese.
Actually smoking has largely been banned indoors.

So to extend your argument - I'm fine with people not taking the vaccine if they follow similar rules as smoking, so no public transport, restaurants, cinemas etc and they're welcome to gather together in a small room to share their potentially infectious air.
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  #623  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:20
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Actually smoking has largely been banned indoors.

So to extend your argument - I'm fine with people not taking the vaccine if they follow similar rules as smoking, so no public transport, restaurants, cinemas etc and they're welcome to gather together in a small room to share their potentially infectious air.
Aside from the original argument being related to hospital space, there is no straight forward protection from passive smoking. Unlike Covid where having a vaccine yourself will stop you getting sick in the vast majority of cases.
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  #624  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:24
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

Tony?
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  #625  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:24
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Such as?

Tom
Smallpox. I bet you had a smallpox vax.
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  #626  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:40
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Such as?

Tom
Here you go:

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/175880...ases-wiped-out
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  #627  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:48
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Smallpox. I bet you had a smallpox vax.
Yes, but those are not mandatory vaccines.

Tom
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  #628  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:52
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Polio and rabies (dogs don't complain that much)
Neither is mandatory in most countries.

Yes, vaccines are great and have eradicated many nasty diseases, but none are MANDATORY!

Tom
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  #629  
Old 19.05.2021, 11:59
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Yes, but those are not mandatory vaccines.

Tom
Does requiring kids to be vaccinated for school count?
https://www.idsociety.org/globalasse...aws-031011.pdf
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  #630  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:02
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Yes, but those are not mandatory vaccines.

Tom
The smallpox vaccine was mandatory in many countries and in a lot of states in the US.


Having said that I don’t think the Covid vaccine should be made mandatory at the moment.
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  #631  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:09
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

This discussion is bizarre. There is no mandatory Covid vaccination.
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  #632  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:14
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Does requiring kids to be vaccinated for school count?
https://www.idsociety.org/globalasse...aws-031011.pdf
No.

It was claimed that mandatory vaccines have eradicated diseases, but it is actually non-mandatory vaccines that did that.

Making them mandatory now does not change the fact that they weren't.

Tom
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  #633  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:18
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Yes, but those are not mandatory vaccines.

Tom
Yes they are! Not in the way the government will round you up and take you to jail if you don't. But you won't be able to enrol your child in school or travel to many places...that is fairly mandatory to me. (And I believe polio vaccine pretty much was for children starting in the late 50's)

https://www.immunize.org/laws/polio.asp

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This discussion is bizarre. There is no mandatory Covid vaccination.
It only came up because TC compared mandatory vaccination to the Holocaust ... now that is bizarre.
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  #634  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:20
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Yes they are!
They are now in some countries, but not universally and were NOT when the diseases were irradicated!

And by mandatory, I mean LEGALLY mandatory, not simply a good idea.

Tom
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  #635  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:20
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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No.

It was claimed that mandatory vaccines have eradicated diseases, but it is actually non-mandatory vaccines that did that.

Making them mandatory now does not change the fact that they weren't.

Tom
Let's just leave it at widespread vaccination, mandatory is a word that triggers people and not needed to get the results of widespread vaccination.
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  #636  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:27
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Let's just leave it at widespread vaccination, mandatory is a word that triggers people and not needed to get the results of widespread vaccination.
Sure - Clearly people are being rather pedantic about the word ... the diseases were eradicated by vaccination that is required to live a normal life. Why individuals don't want to do that for Covid is just plain sad & stupid ...

I saw a nice post on Reddit the other day:

"During the pandemic, you wouldn't wear a mask & avoid crowds, now you won't get the vaccine and yet want to travel, shop and dine with all of us who did these things. Aren't you the one who always gripes about the freeloaders in society who want something for nothing and won't contribute their fair share?"
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  #637  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:38
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Sure - Clearly people are being rather pedantic about the word ... the diseases were eradicated by vaccination that is required to live a normal life. Why individuals don't want to do that for Covid is just plain sad & stupid ...

I saw a nice post on Reddit the other day:

"During the pandemic, you wouldn't wear a mask & avoid crowds, now you won't get the vaccine and yet want to travel, shop and dine with all of us who did these things. Aren't you the one who always gripes about the freeloaders in society who want something for nothing and won't contribute their fair share?"
But, what's the downside of a few people not vaccinating? The vaccinated won't get sick, and if we do, the symptoms won't be that bad. A bit like measles, only a few cultish communities are affected. So, why worry?

I guess something about healthcare costs could be argued but I live in the glasshouse called sports I like. If healthcare costs mattered, the things I like would be banned long ago.

Finally, out of raw self-interest. If middle-aged people say no to the vaccine today, will I spend a single calorie into talking to them to change their mind, or simply be thankful that the waiting line is shorter? I might worry about them after I get my vaccine, might.
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  #638  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:50
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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But, what's the downside of a few people not vaccinating? The vaccinated won't get sick, and if we do, the symptoms won't be that bad. A bit like measles, only a few cultish communities are affected. So, why worry?
It isn't just a few cultish communities (1 in 4 in the US) ... and also because innocent people can still be harmed by their choices & herd immunity is at risk.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...=1621421329075

I don't worry for myself or my husband very much, I am just tired of selfish stupid people ... this pandemic has really put a spotlight on their idiocy.
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  #639  
Old 19.05.2021, 12:50
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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But, what's the downside of a few people not vaccinating? The vaccinated won't get sick, and if we do, the symptoms won't be that bad. A bit like measles, only a few cultish communities are affected. So, why worry?.
The obvious risk of people choosing not to vaccinate is they they may then infect other people who are not yet vaccinated or those who for whatever reason cannot be vaccinated. Isn't this just, you know, basic common sense?

We are also not talking about a "few people", we are talking about many thousands of people who do not want to be vaccinated according to various polls; a statistically significant proportion of the population.
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  #640  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:11
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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The obvious risk of people choosing not to vaccinate is they they may then infect other people who are not yet vaccinated or those who for whatever reason cannot be vaccinated. Isn't this just, you know, basic common sense?
We have different backgrounds, so forget about common sense. Would be more helpful if you explained the reasons.

Well, you mentioned 2 points. Point 1, infecting other people who are not yet vaccinated. I'm precisely in that situation, willing to vaccinate but not yet vaccinated so I can infect other people. Among those people, I can either infect other young waiting for the vaccine or middle-aged and old who refused to vaccinate. I worry a bit for the young waiting for the vaccine, but should I worry at all about infecting someone who made the conscious decision to not vaccinate? That's worrying more than the one who took the decision, so it's a No.

The second point is people that want but for whatever reason cannot vaccinate. Is there any moral justification to take the vaccine because they cannot? There are reasons, but I guess there's simply no moral authority to tell other people what to do with their bodies. What to insert or not in them. That's the base of freedom.

Last edited by Axa; 19.05.2021 at 13:20. Reason: forgot the verb "tell" in a sentence
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