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View Poll Results: Moderna Vaccine side effects
Mild side effects. No time off work. 28 63.64%
Moderate side effects. Time off work - 1 to 2 days 14 31.82%
Serious side effects - more than 2 days off work 2 4.55%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #641  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:16
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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This discussion is bizarre. There is no mandatory Covid vaccination.
And Godwinised. The things some people write here....
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  #642  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:19
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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And Godwinised. The things some people write here....
It's all the fault of the pro-vax Nazis!

Tom
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  #643  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:23
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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They are now in some countries, but not universally and were NOT when the diseases were irradicated!

And by mandatory, I mean LEGALLY mandatory, not simply a good idea.

Tom
The first US State to impose compulsory vaccination against smallpox being Massachusetts in 1809.
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  #644  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:32
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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It only came up because TC compared mandatory vaccination to the Holocaust ... now that is bizarre.
I didn't

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We have different backgrounds, so forget about common sense. Would be more helpful if you explained the reasons.

Well, you mentioned 2 points. Point 1, infecting other people who are not yet vaccinated. I'm precisely in that situation, willing to vaccinate but not yet vaccinated so I can infect other people. Among those people, I can either infect other young waiting for the vaccine or middle-aged and old who refused to vaccinate? I worry a bit for the young waiting for the vaccine, but should I worry at all about infecting someone who made the conscious decision to not vaccinate? That's worrying more than the one who took the decision, so it's a No.

The second point is people that want but for whatever reason cannot vaccinate. Is there any moral justification to take the vaccine because they cannot? There are reasons, but I guess there's simply no moral authority to other people what to do with their bodies. What to insert or not in them. That's the base of freedom.
We're not just talking about vaccines per se, we're talking about a specific state of the art Covid vaccine. Just because someone wouldn't be seen dead in a Kia, it doesn't mean that they hate all cars. Same goes for vaccines, having hesitancy over the Covid vaccine doesn't automatically make people "anti-vaxxers"

There are so many valid reasons for hesitancy, especially for the young. Lack of long terms studies, the low risk Covid poses to most, the continuous reporting of side effects that require further study (see link below for the latest). This is why I find the demonizing of those very few who are hesitant so offensive.

Post-menopausal women report periods coming back after having Covid vaccine

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...st-menopausal/

Vaccine rollout to children faces backlash

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...aces-backlash/
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  #645  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:36
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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The first US State to impose compulsory vaccination against smallpox being Massachusetts in 1809.
Well, that country once banned alcohol, they told people what not to put in their bodies. Eventually they evolved into a humanistic, plural and multicultural society where people are mostly free to decide what they want to insert or not in their bodies.
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  #646  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:45
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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The first US State to impose compulsory vaccination against smallpox being Massachusetts in 1809.
That's just one state, and a very small one at that!

They also used to burn witches there.

Tom
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  #647  
Old 19.05.2021, 13:56
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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We have different backgrounds, so forget about common sense. Would be more helpful if you explained the reasons.

Well, you mentioned 2 points. Point 1, infecting other people who are not yet vaccinated. I'm precisely in that situation, willing to vaccinate but not yet vaccinated so I can infect other people. Among those people, I can either infect other young waiting for the vaccine or middle-aged and old who refused to vaccinate. I worry a bit for the young waiting for the vaccine, but should I worry at all about infecting someone who made the conscious decision to not vaccinate? That's worrying more than the one who took the decision, so it's a No.
Yes, erm, you just described the obvious risks I was talking about for people who are unvaccinated.

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The second point is people that want but for whatever reason cannot vaccinate. Is there any moral justification to take the vaccine because they cannot? There are reasons, but I guess there's simply no moral authority to tell other people what to do with their bodies. What to insert or not in them. That's the base of freedom.
Can you please re-write that part with words that allow it to make logical sense?
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  #648  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:13
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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No.

It was claimed that mandatory vaccines have eradicated diseases, but it is actually non-mandatory vaccines that did that.

Making them mandatory now does not change the fact that they weren't.

Tom
This is an unrealistic expectation - there probably isn't anything that's mandatory globally so you can always find a counter example.

Smallpox vaccine was compulsory in most countries; various vaccines are now mandatory for travellers to countries who want to prevent people bringing in diseases they have eradicated or are very rare. Coronavirus vaccine looks likely to fall into this second group.
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  #649  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:21
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Well, that country once banned alcohol, they told people what not to put in their bodies. Eventually they evolved into a humanistic, plural and multicultural society where people are mostly free to decide what they want to insert or not in their bodies.
Meanwhile a large majority of that population doesn’t seem to mind the amount of crap they put into their bodies judging by their size and health ... but my FREEDOMS....
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  #650  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:26
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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I didn't



We're not just talking about vaccines per se, we're talking about a specific state of the art Covid vaccine. Just because someone wouldn't be seen dead in a Kia, it doesn't mean that they hate all cars. Same goes for vaccines, having hesitancy over the Covid vaccine doesn't automatically make people "anti-vaxxers"

There are so many valid reasons for hesitancy, especially for the young. Lack of long terms studies, the low risk Covid poses to most, the continuous reporting of side effects that require further study (see link below for the latest). This is why I find the demonizing of those very few who are hesitant so offensive.

Post-menopausal women report periods coming back after having Covid vaccine

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...st-menopausal/

Vaccine rollout to children faces backlash

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...aces-backlash/
Ugh, please link to an article we can read and stop with your conspiracy baiting bull crap - that is for Facebook.

“ Meanwhile, the notion of vaccines affecting periods has been picked up by people spreading misinformation on social media.
Anti-vaccine and conspiracy theory groups have presented genuine accounts of people's personal experiences - like Dr Clancy's thread - as evidence of vaccines causing damage, or being part of a sterilisation plot by global elites.
False claims that women's cycles or even pregnancies could be affected just by being near vaccinated people have gained significant traction on social media in recent weeks.
One such video, viewed well over 300,000 times since mid-April, shows a "holistic reproductive practitioner" warning users that "women's periods and their menstrual cycles are being significantly affected, even if they haven't received it [the vaccine] themselves".”

Actual scientific info:


She said there was a plausible link between the vaccine and menstrual changes, as the timing of ovulation (when an egg is released) can be affected by inflammation.
This can be the case when people are sick and have a fever, but vaccines also cause an inflammatory response in the body - it's all part of your immune system firing up and starting to produce the antibodies and other cells that fight disease.”

“ The womb lining is part of the immune system - in fact there are immune cells in almost every part of the body.
Immune cells play a role in building up, maintaining and breaking down the lining of the uterus - which thickens to prepare for a pregnancy, and then sheds in the form of a period if the egg is not fertilised.
After vaccination, lots of chemical signals which have the potential to affect immune cells are circulating round the body. This could cause the womb lining to shed, and lead to spotting or earlier periods, Dr Male explained.”


www.bbc.com/news/health-56901353.amp
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  #651  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:33
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Yes, erm, you just described the obvious risks I was talking about for people who are unvaccinated.
Indeed, there's a risk, but where's the boundary of personal responsibility?

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Can you please re-write that part with words that allow it to make logical sense?
A bit of commas and rephrasing...

The second point is people that want, but for whatever reason cannot vaccinate. Is there any moral justification for anyone to take the vaccine because someone cannot? There are reasons to do it. The more people vaccinated, the stronger the herd immunity. However, there's simply no moral justification to tell other people what to do or not with their bodies. Among the things you decide to do with your body in inserting fluids like alcohol or vaccines. That freedom to decide is the base of our modern plural societies.

This is like conscription. Today, only a few countries force their people to be part of the military, to fight an eventual war. This is a war against a virus, is conscription really necessary?
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  #652  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:37
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Meanwhile a large majority of that population doesn’t seem to mind the amount of crap they put into their bodies judging by their size and health ... but my FREEDOMS....
1 in 4 not taking is 25%. Scientist say herd immunity is achieved with 70% and more vaccination coverage. So, what is exactly achieved by going above 75%? What's the utility?
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  #653  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:40
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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1 in 4 not taking is 25%. Scientist say herd immunity is achieved with 70% and more vaccination coverage. So, what is exactly achieved by going above 75%? What's the utility?
That is 1 in 4 adults ... not taking into account children and teens which are part of that 70%.
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  #654  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:42
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Ugh, please link to an article we can read and stop with your conspiracy baiting bull crap - that is for Facebook.
Conspiracy baiting bull crap are your words. I just posted another example of a reported side effects that will be investigated further. You can be better than this lazy conspiracy baiting epithet.
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  #655  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:43
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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1 in 4 not taking is 25%. Scientist say herd immunity is achieved with 70% and more vaccination coverage. So, what is exactly achieved by going above 75%? What's the utility?
Sooner or later those 25% will anyway catch the virus and join the immunity herd.
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  #656  
Old 19.05.2021, 14:51
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Meanwhile a large majority of that population doesn’t seem to mind the amount of crap they put into their bodies judging by their size and health ... but my FREEDOMS....
The US state with the most refuseniks is the one with generally the worst health profile and also lowest income. No prizes for guessing which one.

Im guessing our worst %s will be in Uri or Glarus. At least this side of the röstiditch
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  #657  
Old 19.05.2021, 15:01
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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Conspiracy baiting bull crap are your words. I just posted another example of a reported side effects that will be investigated further. You can be better than this lazy conspiracy baiting epithet.
“Meanwhile, the notion of vaccines affecting periods has been picked up by people spreading misinformation on social media.”

So that isn't what you are doing then?
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  #658  
Old 19.05.2021, 15:04
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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“Meanwhile, the notion of vaccines affecting periods has been picked up by people spreading misinformation on social media.”

So that isn't what you are doing then?
NO! Because I've never said "vaccines are affecting periods". I said there are continuous reports of vaccine side effects that require further study, and used this report as the latest example.
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  #659  
Old 19.05.2021, 15:06
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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The US state with the most refuseniks is the one with generally the worst health profile and also lowest income. No prizes for guessing which one.

Im guessing our worst %s will be in Uri or Glarus. At least this side of the röstiditch
As long as all those on the other side stay over there, it should be fine!

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/epidemiologic/case
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Old 19.05.2021, 15:22
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Re: When can we take covid vaccine

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The US state with the most refuseniks is the one with generally the worst health profile and also lowest income. No prizes for guessing which one.
Sweet Home Alabama?

Tom
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