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Old 24.03.2021, 23:51
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Separated with non EU national

Hi all,

I am EU national and was married to a non EU woman since 2.5 years we have no kids.
She joined me on dependent B permit in November’2019 but later I had to file for separation due to some reasons to which she never agreed so I got a non mutual separation from the court this month, effective from September’2020. The court orders me to pay her 2k per month if she continues to live in Switzerland and very less if she leaves Switzerland (obviously she doesn’t want to leave). She has a part time job and she earns ~1.5k/month.

Will I have to pay her 2k per month until September’22 (when I can independently get divorce)? She doesn’t agree to sign divorce. I have contacted immigration office to inform that we are separated and waiting for their feedback.
What should I do to get the divorce ASAP and not to pay her so long until September’2022?

Thank you
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Old 25.03.2021, 09:18
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Re: Separated with non EU national

When you signed for that dependant permit, you agreed to be financially responsible for her for 5 years!
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Old 25.03.2021, 09:49
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Re: Separated with non EU national

Unless there is agreement, the separation period is 2 years, upon thereafter you do not need consent. You are still married, albeit separated, during this period and will be required to support her per the court ruling.
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Old 25.03.2021, 10:29
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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When you signed for that dependant permit, you agreed to be financially responsible for her for 5 years!
I don't remember signing for the dependant permit of my husband and the 5 years are not fix as the permit does say "Verbleib bei Ehefrau/Ehemann".

But when I signed the marriage papers I sure did agree on financial responsibility. So yes, OP must pay until after the divorce is valid. Procedures for that can start earliest 2 years after separation date. And by the way - not one day sooner he can file for divorce without his wifes consent, they are very peculiar about that.
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Old 25.03.2021, 10:36
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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Unless there is agreement, the separation period is 2 years, upon thereafter you do not need consent. You are still married, albeit separated, during this period and will be required to support her per the court ruling.
Also bear in mind that while you can file for divorce after two years separation, your wife can easily delay court proceedings. I'd take the five years mentioned above as given - depending upon circumstances perhaps longer. Don't forget that your wife has entitlements regarding pension fund etc. accrued until you’re finally divorced.
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Old 25.03.2021, 10:59
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Re: Separated with non EU national

Legally there is nothing you can do, chalk this up to a CHF 24k life lesson....never bring a foreign wife to a western country, you will be amazed at how quickly they "discover their rights." The worst thing you can do is fight this or fight with her, that will just put you in a bad mood and lead to higher legal fees/costs. The best thing to do is cut off all contact with her, set up an LSV for the 2k/month (which is tax deductible) and get a lawyer to draft the divorce agreement. Also, the courts are more savvy than they used to be so the accrual of pension obligations and support can be cut off once the divorce is filed for (after 2 years) if one party is deemed to be dragging things out for financial gain.

All the best and good luck!
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Old 25.03.2021, 11:55
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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Legally there is nothing you can do, chalk this up to a CHF 24k life lesson....never bring a foreign wife to a western country, you will be amazed at how quickly they "discover their rights." The worst thing you can do is fight this or fight with her, that will just put you in a bad mood and lead to higher legal fees/costs. The best thing to do is cut off all contact with her, set up an LSV for the 2k/month (which is tax deductible) and get a lawyer to draft the divorce agreement. Also, the courts are more savvy than they used to be so the accrual of pension obligations and support can be cut off once the divorce is filed for (after 2 years) if one party is deemed to be dragging things out for financial gain.
CHF 24k does seem an optimistic calculation for this life lesson – you’re not automatically divorced after two years. While I think I understand where you’re coming from, doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that “foreign” wives have the same rights as the non-invasive home grown variety. I do suspect a proposal to do away with all and any rights of the wife species in general is still a bit advanced in this day and age


That the courts are more savvy regarding delaying tactics is (welcome) news to me. However, as savvy as they may now be, it does take a while until these tactics are obvious and their manifestation can be brought up.

The OP mentioned that there are no kids involved which should make things simpler. Certainly not an expert but AFAIK children born while a couple is only separated are still legally considered offspring of the husband. Naturally, this can be challenged (within two years after birth) but who knows etc. and things certainly would get more complicated/messy/expensive. Just a thought on unforeseen delays.
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Old 25.03.2021, 14:51
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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Legally there is nothing you can do, chalk this up to a CHF 24k life lesson....never bring a foreign wife to a western country, you will be amazed at how quickly they "discover their rights."
You do know that there are also non-EU countries in the West, right? That condescending tone in your post is just
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Old 25.03.2021, 18:46
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Re: Separated with non EU national

1.5k salary implies (not much more than) 40% of a fulltime job. Why is that?

Changing that into 100% employment would make her (almost) financially independent and remove the threat of turning this into a five-year battle. Why doesn't she?
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Old 25.03.2021, 18:50
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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1.5k salary implies (not much more than) 40% of a fulltime job. Why is that?

Changing that into 100% employment would make her (almost) financially independent and remove the threat of turning this into a five-year battle. Why doesn't she?
Also, I guess when divorce is finalised, she will lose her dependent B permit ... so if she doesn't find a job (and a permit to go with it) before then, she will probably have to leave the country as she is nowhere near being financial independent (today).
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Old 25.03.2021, 18:56
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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never bring a foreign wife to a western country, you will be amazed at how quickly they "discover their rights."
Sad to see that there are such backward forum members.
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Old 25.03.2021, 19:21
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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Sad to see that there are such backward forum members.
They probably even put cream in their carbonara and alfredo!

(and, dog forbid, CHICKEN!)

Savages!

Tom
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Old 25.03.2021, 19:33
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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Legally there is nothing you can do, chalk this up to a CHF 24k life lesson....never bring a foreign wife to a western country, you will be amazed at how quickly they "discover their rights." The worst thing you can do is fight this or fight with her, that will just put you in a bad mood and lead to higher legal fees/costs. The best thing to do is cut off all contact with her, set up an LSV for the 2k/month (which is tax deductible) and get a lawyer to draft the divorce agreement. Also, the courts are more savvy than they used to be so the accrual of pension obligations and support can be cut off once the divorce is filed for (after 2 years) if one party is deemed to be dragging things out for financial gain.

All the best and good luck!
We have no idea of the other side of the story.
I am all for helping people who ask for help but we have to assume that we are hearing only one side of the story and typically these things are much more nuanced. Thus taking a very broad view like 'bringing a foreign wife to Western Countries' sounds quite judgemental and a tad offensive.
Lets focus on helping the OP understand his obligations and rights and avoid making very judgemental comments.
I saw another thread where the tone was very simillar except this time it was a foreign husband who was divorced after 04 years to ensure he could not get settlement rights (quite deliberately). Again I dont know the full context but it does make me pause that we can take such strong views on these topics.
OP, you are better off talking to a lawyer and getting full clarity on your rights and obligations. All the very best.
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Old 26.03.2021, 00:19
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Re: Separated with non EU national

Miki, sounds like something sour is happening in your life, so first of all I wish you and your separated wife well.

Rays of support towards you guys, hopefully you will each figure out how to get out of this situation with the minimum mutual damage and become better and stronger people.


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The court orders me to pay her 2k per month...
Will I have to pay her 2k per month until September’22 (when I can independently get divorce)?
You answered your own question: yes, since the court say so.

You may try to become a vigilante and hide from the law, then you will not pay on these terms, but will get a lot of other problems and potentially will pay even more.



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....never bring a foreign wife to a western country, you will be amazed at how quickly they "discover their rights."
And that is what you have to help her with, if you are bringing a partner, not a slave.
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Old 26.03.2021, 10:56
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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You do know that there are also non-EU countries in the West, right? That condescending tone in your post is just
No one from a Western country would be foolish enough to stay in high-cost Switzerland on CHF 3.5k/month (1.5k from job plus 2k from ex-husband). That is basically the poverty line in CH. You would only do that if the alternative, losing your right to reside in CH, meant going back to a non-Western country. I am willing to bet that the wife is either from Asia or LatAM! The OP said he would have to pay her "a lot less than 2k/month" if she went home so it's clear she's not from Canada or Australia or the US haha.
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Old 26.03.2021, 11:11
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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No one from a Western country would be foolish enough to stay in high-cost Switzerland on CHF 3.5k/month (1.5k from job plus 2k from ex-husband). That is basically the poverty line in CH. You would only do that if the alternative, losing your right to reside in CH, meant going back to a non-Western country. I am willing to bet that the wife is either from Asia or LatAM! The OP said he would have to pay her "a lot less than 2k/month" if she went home so it's clear she's not from Canada or Australia or the US haha.
Brutto/Netto? If it's Netto you'd be surprised of how many people come from Western Europe to earn this.

PS. just for curiosity. EFers: is the 2K payment taxable income?

Last edited by Axa; 26.03.2021 at 11:22. Reason: added the question about taxable income
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Old 26.03.2021, 11:19
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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CHF 24k does seem an optimistic calculation for this life lesson – you’re not automatically divorced after two years. While I think I understand where you’re coming from, doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that “foreign” wives have the same rights as the non-invasive home grown variety. I do suspect a proposal to do away with all and any rights of the wife species in general is still a bit advanced in this day and age


That the courts are more savvy regarding delaying tactics is (welcome) news to me. However, as savvy as they may now be, it does take a while until these tactics are obvious and their manifestation can be brought up.

The OP mentioned that there are no kids involved which should make things simpler. Certainly not an expert but AFAIK children born while a couple is only separated are still legally considered offspring of the husband. Naturally, this can be challenged (within two years after birth) but who knows etc. and things certainly would get more complicated/messy/expensive. Just a thought on unforeseen delays.
Think 75% or your current net worth and 51% of your disposable income absolute minimum unless you agree on everything and attempt to minimise legal costs. The lawyers and legal process will need it's 1/3 of your total assets and income. Lawyers here in Switzerland are no more honest than in any any other country.
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Old 26.03.2021, 11:30
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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No one from a Western country would be foolish enough to stay in high-cost Switzerland on CHF 3.5k/month
I know a man who is supporting wife and kid on a job paying about this. I suppose he could leave his home country and go an work in Africa or the Asia.
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Old 26.03.2021, 11:39
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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PS. just for curiosity. EFers: is the 2K payment taxable income?
Paid amount is deducted, received amount declared as income. Once the couple is officially separated, both file individual tax returns.
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Old 26.03.2021, 14:24
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Re: Separated with non EU national

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When you signed for that dependant permit, you agreed to be financially responsible for her for 5 years!
That doesn't remove her obligation to do her part.
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You answered your own question: yes, since the court say so.
For the time being. However:

The federal court (FC) made a ruling (BGE 5A_104/2018) publicly available recently where they emphasised the obligation for her to do what she can to become independent. This is too fresh to have affected OP's ruling.

This ruling is a gamechanger for ex-wives older than age 45 requiring them to seek work, basically any work. The ex-wife used to work in IT quite some time ago, that knowledge is dated by now. But the judges explicitly mentioned the requirement to expand her range into working as a waitress or in care homes.

OP's wife is probably far younger than that, however the duty to be self-reliant applies to her as well. Hence the question why she works only part-time and if that can be increased. Her wishes and desires are irrelevant in that regard. It may be helpful, for example, for OP to enquire with the employer whether they'd be offering an expansion to 100% to a good employee in her position. Not to his wife specifically but in general, she may lack the motivation to work, which will reduce the employers willingness to offer that to her. Their answer may warrant for OP to appeal the verdict.
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