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  #21  
Old 25.05.2021, 15:47
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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Have something similar except on the inside of the leg rather than the outside. Diagnosed (but not scanned to confrim) as ligament damage. Also get pain on longer downhills.
Were you offered any treatment? Or, was any treatment possible?
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  #22  
Old 25.05.2021, 16:00
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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Meniscus/cartilage ? I have a lot of knee pain, it’s chronic, I find KTtape type stuff much better than braces as I can still move much more freely but it takes some of the pressure off. Good shoes/boots are a must and depending on the slope I use poles too. Makes me look like an old woman (I’m in my twenties) but it helps me have stability and less pain.
Bracing or not bracing is a very philosophical topic. bracing may help but it means your knee isnt doing the work. Taping can work if its about realignment but the juries out really. I always found that just do what works for you best, there isnt one single advice.

The advice on poles is good and very important, these i recommend also.
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  #23  
Old 25.05.2021, 16:21
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

I think I know what this is - if it is not the meniscus. I have something that fits the description exactly, and it's the iliotibial band. These run from hip to knee and are mostly "fibrous" and not muscle. The key features I found were that you have the oddest form of pain, that means for instance I have to awkwardly hop down steps, that it's not painful when you're not exerting, and that it goes very quickly. I had a strong bout going down Schnebelhorn a few weeks ago, after not having it for ages (I do much more stretching, alignment and strengthening nowadays), and I must have looked really comical nursing it down the hillside. It's basically the band rasping over the bone. I like that I don't feel I'm damaging anything long term. My solution, which I have put to a mild test and got no problem but haven't done a Schnebelhorn level walk, was using a stretch band (the loop) around the knees then pushing the knees to the side. It's basically an alignment problem. I sure hope this fits yours, because it's not a big fix. Check your hip and leg alignment (plenty of help online and youtube) and the exercises will be easy to find. Good luck!
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Old 25.05.2021, 22:57
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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I know some who have normal knees but pain when they hike downhill. X-Ray + MRI normal. They don't have knee pain when doing impact sports, pain only comes when they hike downhill


Oh, and outer knee pain can be ITBS too.
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I think I know what this is - if it is not the meniscus. I have something that fits the description exactly, and it's the iliotibial band. These run from hip to knee and are mostly "fibrous" and not muscle. The key features I found were that you have the oddest form of pain, that means for instance I have to awkwardly hop down steps, that it's not painful when you're not exerting, and that it goes very quickly. I had a strong bout going down Schnebelhorn a few weeks ago, after not having it for ages (I do much more stretching, alignment and strengthening nowadays), and I must have looked really comical nursing it down the hillside. It's basically the band rasping over the bone. I like that I don't feel I'm damaging anything long term. My solution, which I have put to a mild test and got no problem but haven't done a Schnebelhorn level walk, was using a stretch band (the loop) around the knees then pushing the knees to the side. It's basically an alignment problem. I sure hope this fits yours, because it's not a big fix. Check your hip and leg alignment (plenty of help online and youtube) and the exercises will be easy to find. Good luck!
Yes, that's what TTYL was talking about...earlier.

https://www.medicinenet.com/iliotibi...me/article.htm

I guess I got the same thing, probably more prone to it due to my career in IT.
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  #25  
Old 26.05.2021, 00:50
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

I had a similar problem. Turned out to be a combination of IT band and hip problem. But I guess IT band is more common cause and maybe the major cause for me.

PT+ hip surgery helped

you can pm me for more info on my case
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  #26  
Old 26.05.2021, 08:37
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

I put it down to age. I've been doing some knee stabilisation exercises on the rubber band machine at the gym, and that definitely helped.
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  #27  
Old 26.05.2021, 08:55
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

Do hip strengthening if true ITBS!
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  #28  
Old 26.05.2021, 08:59
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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Do hip strengthening if true ITBS!

The hip is bone and cartilage. What exactly are you strengthening?
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  #29  
Old 26.05.2021, 09:09
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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The hip is bone and cartilage. What exactly are you strengthening?

Hit the hip bone with Thor's hammer daily to strengthen it Glute muscles and everything that supports the hip structure is what I meant
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  #30  
Old 26.05.2021, 09:13
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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Hit the hip bone with Thor's hammer daily to strengthen it Glute muscles and everything that supports the hip structure is what I meant
Peoples answers are all a bit vague in this thread:

Do some exercises... (which ones for which specific muscles?).
Watch a youtube video... (which one - provide a link?).
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  #31  
Old 26.05.2021, 09:23
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

A follow-up point, if ITBS is not solved/eased by few solid months (say 4-6 months) of glute strengthening then time to get MRI of hip and knee joint.

As an X runner, my view is that all those years of repeated impact will eventually take a toll, unless you have really great biomechanics.
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  #32  
Old 26.05.2021, 10:30
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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Were you offered any treatment? Or, was any treatment possible?
As I wrote, I've never had it scanned - so have never discussed treatment. It is completely manageable at the moment (I am more usually up a mountain on a bike or touring skis, both of which are no problem) and I've no intention of letting a surgeon into it until it actually affects my active life!
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  #33  
Old 26.05.2021, 11:13
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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As I wrote, I've never had it scanned - so have never discussed treatment. It is completely manageable at the moment (I am more usually up a mountain on a bike or touring skis, both of which are no problem) and I've no intention of letting a surgeon into it until it actually affects my active life!
I meant self-treatment which which (appeared) to work like stretching, supporting muscle-building exercised or complementary exercises/sports which helped.

What you have described seems similar to my symptoms (I bent my knee back at a severe angle running down, and slipping on an icy slope) a few years ago.

I never went to a doctor at the time though probably should have - I thought it would sort it self out over time.
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Old 26.05.2021, 11:23
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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I meant self-treatment which which (appeared) to work like stretching, supporting muscle-building exercised or complementary exercises/sports which helped.

What you have described seems similar to my symptoms (I bent my knee back at a severe angle running down, and slipping on an icy slope) a few years ago.

I never went to a doctor at the time though probably should have - I thought it would sort it self out over time.
The MTB and touring are probably both complementary and probably have helped since the injury a couple of years back to the extent that I can now walk a fair distance downhill without problems (up to 600m tried successfully of late). But has taken that couple of years to get there.
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  #35  
Old 26.05.2021, 19:46
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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Yes, that's what TTYL was talking about...earlier.

https://www.medicinenet.com/iliotibi...me/article.htm

I guess I got the same thing, probably more prone to it due to my career in IT.

Oops (blush), didn't see that in TTYL's post.
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Old 26.05.2021, 19:55
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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Peoples answers are all a bit vague in this thread:

Do some exercises... (which ones for which specific muscles?).
Watch a youtube video... (which one - provide a link?).
Hi, I was intentionally vague, because everyone's problems are different, plus everyone's approach is different to solving the problem. I had a particular form of hip misalignment, and a bit of scoliosis, which resulted in a bit of a shoulder mess so I hunted for videos to suit and tackled the worst bit first, then worked on the next.....

Examples: Hip alignment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTw27SjJxXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krGkT8NymA4

ITB exercise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iODncOLJnk

Last edited by User9; 26.05.2021 at 22:36.
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  #37  
Old 26.05.2021, 22:52
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

Disclaimer: Anyone not being biomechanically "standard", i.e. having other issues/misalignments which could cause/promote the IT band condition - please consult a professional for your specific case.

My brother in law is an experienced physio.
Key points he mentioned in terms of prevention:
- strengthen the "opposing" part of the quad, i.e. vastus medialis, using slow maintained eccentric movements (e.g. working the top 30% portion of the full range of leg extension or squats)
- strengthen the hip, i.e. gluteus/i muscles using adductor exercises, e.g. cables, bands etc. (as in the super useful video linked above from Athlean X by @User9 <3)
- before going for an in-advanced-known tedious hike with a serious downhill, it can help to foamroll the said tendon shortly in the morning, to "prepare it" for the upcoming stress [I saw with a glance that is not advised in the video, but I choose to accept my BIL's logical explanation why it could help]

Hope this helps some!
I will definitely work on it and incorporate into my regular trainings.

Last edited by gipfelisturmer; 26.05.2021 at 23:19.
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Old 28.05.2021, 14:28
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

I won’t try to doctor over Englishforum but can share my experience. I often had sharp knee pain after long descents which moved to pain whenever walking downstairs. I got an MRI and all structural aspects of my knee were fine so the doctor recommended physiotherapy. At first, the therapist was perplexed but then they taped my knee up and had me do a variety of reverse lunges and banded squats. After doing this for a few weeks my knees no longer hurt. I haven’t been on a long hike since but at least I can walk downstairs without a sharp stabbing pain.
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  #39  
Old 31.05.2021, 20:56
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

And the winner is.... Runner's knee (Illiotibial band syndrome).

Doc recommended:
1) Physio to stabilize the knee
2) No running until solved (even if not painful, there is a little liquid around the knee which signals irritation and will get worse with running)
3) hiking only uphill
4) foam rolling
5) taping the knee (or brace but he prefers taping)
6) use sticks when walking downhill
7) do knee exercises just before hiking to activate the muscles

Let's see how I go. I have struggled with stability of the knee for a while and I regularly exercise etc so let's see this time.

K
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  #40  
Old 31.05.2021, 22:07
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Re: Outer knee pain when hiking downhill

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And the winner is.... Runner's knee (Illiotibial band syndrome).

Doc recommended:
1) Physio to stabilize the knee
2) No running until solved (even if not painful, there is a little liquid around the knee which signals irritation and will get worse with running)
3) hiking only uphill
4) foam rolling
5) taping the knee (or brace but he prefers taping)
6) use sticks when walking downhill
7) do knee exercises just before hiking to activate the muscles

Let's see how I go. I have struggled with stability of the knee for a while and I regularly exercise etc so let's see this time.
3). is in a bit of a conflict with 6).

For 5). when he says taping, does he mean strapping, wearing a fabric knee support or using that worthless colourful sticky tape?
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