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Old 16.08.2021, 00:40
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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I did not groan.
I wrote two very factual posts.
Don't patronize me.
I never said you groaned and I’m glad you didn’t. I apologize for using the word “attacked” which was far too strong. I reread your original post and it was actually quite factual. So here’s a public apology.
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  #22  
Old 16.08.2021, 06:50
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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This reply is to Curley and those groaners, who obviously aren’t mothers nor have small children.

This is a new poster who’s scared for her kid. Have a heart. This isn’t the Coronavirus thread, where groans are a dime a dozen. It’s a call from a newbie, a real person, looking for help. You certainly don’t have to agree with the OP’s views but just remember we’re dealing with a mother who is anxious for her child.

Let’s keep EF a welcoming place for our newcomers; a reason why this forum was created in the first place.
And I answered very kindly without an judgement explaining my point of view as did others. Then we got told poster knows it all as read all the literature and her choice is the best so I reacted as I find this type of posts quite annoying and wonder what people are looking for.
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Old 16.08.2021, 07:49
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

I am not in the same situation as you, but I understand where you're coming from. My concerns are: long covid, not the acute infection (as she is vaccinated), as well as vaccinated infected people still being able to infect others with the delta variant (concern for vulnerable people in the family and population spread).



My child is 12+. I was very happy that school was in person all of last year, but with appropriate precautions (windows open a lot, everyone masked). Now I am concerned, because school is starting today and masks are no longer obligatory, which means many will not wear them. At the same time, we are dealing with the delta variant, which - and this is not just my opinion - is a lot more infectious than the original virus. I think, as many kids are coming back from vacation, it would be prudent to have masks on and then reassess, in view of what is happening in equally badly vaccinated districts in the US (abrupt school closures after abolishing masks mandates and resulting high numbers of infections). The voluntary once a week testing is not frequent enough to stop delta spread, from the current studies.



So: my child, 2x vaccinated, will be wearing a mask while inside the classroom, not outside on the school grounds. Let's see how many other parents make the same decision (probably not many, in view of the predominant media messaging here). Maska, all things considered, are a minor inconvenience that might contribute to curbing the spread of this virus, so why not do it? I want the schools to stay open!
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Old 16.08.2021, 08:08
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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And I answered very kindly without an judgement explaining my point of view as did others. Then we got told poster knows it all as read all the literature and her choice is the best so I reacted as I find this type of posts quite annoying and wonder what people are looking for.
Perhaps looking for empathy and comradeship? OP was quite clear in her post & wasn’t looking for your point of view. I think many of the people on here forget what it was like to move to a new country ... especially during a pandemic and as a parent.

Another newbie welcomed warmly, even by one of the mods that is supposedly making this forum a better place.
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  #25  
Old 16.08.2021, 08:28
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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Perhaps looking for empathy and comradeship? OP was quite clear in her post & wasn’t looking for your point of view. I think many of the people on here forget what it was like to move to a new country ... especially during a pandemic and as a parent.

Another newbie welcomed warmly, even by one of the mods that is supposedly making this forum a better place.
Poster asked if others are doing the same and some.of us told us what we are doing without judgement. Don't see anything wrong with that. What would have been acceptable? Only for people to answer "yes". It is natural that people react by saying what they are doing. This is what you would get also at a dinner party and natural conversation - you expose a point of view and you get others in return. To turn around and tell people "this is not what I want to hear" is not really a conversation and it's what got people reacting. Not the original post which was answered kindly.
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Old 16.08.2021, 08:55
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

TBH it's one of those illness's that children need to get so they have some antibodies going forward. The common cold is a coronavirus.
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:05
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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TBH it's one of those illness's that children need to get so they have some antibodies going forward. The common cold is a coronavirus.
Not quite. The below link explains the differences.

https://intermountainhealthcare.org/...d-coronavirus/

Edit: Let's not make this another version of the Coronavirus thread. Instead, this might be an opportunity to focus on Covid and children exlusively.
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:12
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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Not quite. The below link explains the differences.

https://intermountainhealthcare.org/...d-coronavirus/

Edit: Let's not make this another version of the Coronavirus thread. Instead, this might be an opportunity to focus on Covid and children exlusively.
B...bu.....but we're not allowed to do that. It's the OP's thread.
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:15
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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Not quite. The below link explains the differences.

https://intermountainhealthcare.org/...d-coronavirus/

Edit: Let's not make this another version of the Coronavirus thread. Instead, this might be an opportunity to focus on Covid and children exlusively.
From your link

'Four other strains of coronavirus are actually very common and usually only cause mild symptoms (like the common cold). '
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:18
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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From your link

'Four other strains of coronavirus are actually very common and usually only cause mild symptoms (like the common cold). '
The key word being “like”.
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Old 16.08.2021, 09:25
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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From your link

'Four other strains of coronavirus are actually very common and usually only cause mild symptoms (like the common cold). '
Most of the common colds are caused by rhinoviruses. Coronavirus OC43 probably caused the 1890-1891 "Asiatic Flu" which killed millions and is still somewhat nastier than the other "common colds"
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Old 16.08.2021, 14:10
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

Olygirl and Susie-Q, thanks for the kind replies!

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I am not in the same situation as you, but I understand where you're coming from. My concerns are: long covid, not the acute infection (as she is vaccinated), as well as vaccinated infected people still being able to infect others with the delta variant (concern for vulnerable people in the family and population spread).
LiquidPaper - it is nice to read of one parent in Switzerland with some concerns! I'm happy for you that your child is vaccinated, I hope it will keep her safe this year. You're right that the delta variant is very concerning, and I don't understand the problem with masks either. It's very strange, although if most of the population here still think it's the flu/common cold then I guess it makes sense. Also, I suppose you can't have any worries otherwise you are labelled as anxious or hysterical
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Old 16.08.2021, 14:38
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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Olygirl and Susie-Q, thanks for the kind replies!



LiquidPaper - it is nice to read of one parent in Switzerland with some concerns! I'm happy for you that your child is vaccinated, I hope it will keep her safe this year. You're right that the delta variant is very concerning, and I don't understand the problem with masks either. It's very strange, although if most of the population here still think it's the flu/common cold then I guess it makes sense. Also, I suppose you can't have any worries otherwise you are labelled as anxious or hysterical
that's a bit unfair. in fact, Switzerland has followed an impressively scientific route along the virus, they were one of the first (perhaps the first I think) to say that under 12 the virus has little to no effect and as such these age children went back to school. In fact the chap who stayed on from retirement to manage for the swiss government has been given a bit of slap on the back for his work.

its not been perfect, the vaccine rollout was slow to begin with but Ch is now listed as one of the best places in the world to live for Coronavirus risk management.

So you won't be labelled hysterical or anxious, but the weight of scientific evidence on which the country has based its policy is very significant and saying you've done your own research is commendable but doesn't really compare to many hundreds of scientists research into this area for switzerland.
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Old 16.08.2021, 14:53
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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So you won't be labelled hysterical or anxious
I only wrote that because I have already been labelled anxious and hysterical on this thread

I wasn't really implying the government has been the worst, although I do believe a lot of people needlessly died because they were too slow to implement lockdowns in the first and second waves. Also, we've seen in India and now in the Southern US that delta is a different beast. Berset has basically said good luck to the unvaccinated (including children under 12), so we'll see how that goes in the next few months.

I was more talking about the population's attitude to covid. Our vaccination rate is one of the worst in the West and most people I know aren't afraid of catching it. They will only wear masks where absolutely compulsory.
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Old 16.08.2021, 14:57
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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Olygirl and Susie-Q, thanks for the kind replies!



LiquidPaper - it is nice to read of one parent in Switzerland with some concerns! I'm happy for you that your child is vaccinated, I hope it will keep her safe this year. You're right that the delta variant is very concerning, and I don't understand the problem with masks either. It's very strange, although if most of the population here still think it's the flu/common cold then I guess it makes sense. Also, I suppose you can't have any worries otherwise you are labelled as anxious or hysterical
My pleasure, here is an article (even if it isn't the best Swiss paper) on how you aren't alone in Switzerland:

https://www.20min.ch/story/hohe-kind...z-687185749275

And this is what my hometown is currently dealing with:

https://www.20min.ch/story/spitaeler...n-925344638526

There aren't many on this forum that will sympathize with your current fears ... apologies for that. I'm fairly certain people will comment on how all the kids are fat or unhealthy in my hometown, so it couldn't possible happen here.

Best wishes
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Old 16.08.2021, 15:14
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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I only wrote that because I have already been labelled anxious and hysterical on this thread

I wasn't really implying the government has been the worst, although I do believe a lot of people needlessly died because they were too slow to implement lockdowns in the first and second waves. Also, we've seen in India and now in the Southern US that delta is a different beast. Berset has basically said good luck to the unvaccinated (including children under 12), so we'll see how that goes in the next few months.

I was more talking about the population's attitude to covid. Our vaccination rate is one of the worst in the West and most people I know aren't afraid of catching it. They will only wear masks where absolutely compulsory.
The UK is actually the best source of data for delta given it was hit earlier than the US and although cases have been high and are staying high deaths have been really low. The death rate with a largely (95%) non-naive population is miniscule now. 1/10th of what it was and now no more than flu. 2 figures per day vs 4 figures per day for about a month in January.

The south of the US is less relevant to Switzerland given its very low vaccine takeup, its very high levels of obesity and poor health, and the lack of maturity of delta.
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Old 16.08.2021, 15:18
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that's a bit unfair. in fact, Switzerland has followed an impressively scientific route along the virus, they were one of the first (perhaps the first I think) to say that under 12 the virus has little to no effect and as such these age children went back to school. In fact the chap who stayed on from retirement to manage for the swiss government has been given a bit of slap on the back for his work.

its not been perfect, the vaccine rollout was slow to begin with but Ch is now listed as one of the best places in the world to live for Coronavirus risk management.

So you won't be labelled hysterical or anxious, but the weight of scientific evidence on which the country has based its policy is very significant and saying you've done your own research is commendable but doesn't really compare to many hundreds of scientists research into this area for switzerland.

I'm outraged by the handling of the injection, and am 1 of the people campaigning to remove barriers for people wanting to get it, who can't currently because of all the restrictions put in place.


Whilst I've completely disagreed with the approach there, it's impossible to do anything but applaud the handling of kids going to school.


When families are locked-up at home, and mandatory reporters are distanced from vulnerable groups like kids and women with violent partners in the home, the instances of abuse, mistreatment and malnourishment skyrocket.


In the voluntary sector, we are sadly still subject to extreme limiting of the numbers of people we can offer shelter and in-person care to. Schools are vital for taking care of kids far beyond COVID.


I was reflecting earlier on how absurd and sad it is to see such an extreme reaction from some Americans as it pertains to COVID, in light of the establishment of shooter drills in schools, and so on. Living with shooter drills is a lot to ask a growing child to bear, let alone handling their parents extreme, often unfounded, fears about COVID.


I would also discount anyone forming opinions based on things they find subject to the bias of search terms and linguistic limitations. It takes people years and years of training to be able to guide on medical policy for good reason. Enough time is now passing with this, to be able to recognise great work, which the handling of kids going back to school is an example of.



I think it's ok for people to politely disagree on this, so long as they're respectful and thoughtful. After all, we all share environments. It's for the good of all of us, that kids grow into capable, calm, considerate team-players as adults.

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My pleasure, here is an article (even if it isn't the best Swiss paper) on how you aren't alone in Switzerland:

https://www.20min.ch/story/hohe-kind...z-687185749275

And this is what my hometown is currently dealing with:

https://www.20min.ch/story/spitaeler...n-925344638526

There aren't many on this forum that will sympathize with your current fears ... apologies for that. I'm fairly certain people will comment on how all the kids are fat or unhealthy in my hometown, so it couldn't possible happen here.

Best wishes

The danger of getting caught up in ego like this, is it's easy to overlook one's own poor conduct. You were unkind to me when I joined the board, even sending me a nasty rep message, and I'm not an unkind, volatile poster, intending to wound. You also rarely thank people when they help you, but are inclined to be negative when you feel outraged or slighted. No big deal, of course, and we'll all live regardless. It might just be an idea to get your own house in order as a first step.


I commend and admire olygirl, both for acknowledging she has been unkind in the past needlessly, and for apologising on the thread.

Last edited by roegner; 16.08.2021 at 15:26. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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  #38  
Old 16.08.2021, 15:40
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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I'm fairly certain people will comment on how all the kids are fat or unhealthy in my hometown, so it couldn't possible happen here.
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The south of the US is less relevant to Switzerland given its very low vaccine takeup, its very high levels of obesity and poor health, and the lack of maturity of delta.
15 mins later

Thanks for the article susie-Q, nice to know that some in Switzerland want to keep kids safe as much as possible. Hope your friends and family in Dallas are safe.

I'm of the attitude that we should try to avoid covid as much as possible for the whole population, and not just let it rip, and I don't think the majority agree with that at all. The UK data is interesting but I think it's pointing to seasonality (the southern US has an early flu season I think) so let's see what the winter brings. Maybe I have been too hysterical, maybe not! and maybe I will never find one preschooler parent who agrees with me right now....
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Old 16.08.2021, 15:43
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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The danger of getting caught up in ego like this, is it's easy to overlook one's own poor conduct. You were unkind to me when I joined the board, even sending me a nasty rep message, and I'm not an unkind, volatile poster, intending to wound. You also rarely thank people when they help you, but are inclined to be negative when you feel outraged or slighted. No big deal, of course, and we'll all live regardless. It might just be an idea to get your own house in order as a first step..
I am far from perfect, but your continued need to play the victim at even the slightest disagreement is incredibly annoying. Why is this even necessary here right now? If you would like to take this discussion offline, I would be happy to.

And I am very thankful to those who help me ... 4,598 times to be exact.
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Old 16.08.2021, 15:46
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Re: Covid concerns for preschoolers

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I commend and admire olygirl, both for acknowledging she has been unkind in the past needlessly, and for apologising on the thread.
Yes, I admire olygirl for this, too. And also for the many times she has generously given of her time to offer help and kindness, and intervened to appeal for more of those.
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