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Old 28.09.2021, 15:29
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Housewife getting Divorced

Hi all,

I have read through the threads on divorce but can't seem to find anything for my situation....

I have been marries for 25 years, a housewife for over 20 years. When we came to Switzerland 12 years ago I was not allowed to work. Only now with our C permits I am able to work.

2.5 years ago my husband came out as gay and we 'seperated' we still live in the same house just in different parts. Simply because I have no income and not really another choice. I am so ready to be on my own.

I have been trying to find a job but needless to say without any work history here in Switzerland or for the last 20+ years, it has proven impossible so far.

Does anyone know what my options and rights are or what services might be available to me? We were married with accrual.

Any imput would be appreciated.

Thank you kindly
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  #2  
Old 28.09.2021, 15:45
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

What do you want to do?
What can you do?

And how old are you?

Do you have any vocational training? How "far" did you come in school, what's your highest degree ("höchster Schulabschluss").

Do you speak German? (You profile doesn't list it...)
Do you have a driving license?

Any medical problems preventing you from doing certain jobs?

I'm afraid, there's not going to be much choosing on your side.

AFAIK, there are lots of open positions in the restaurant-sector and likely in medical care.

All more or less with mediocre pay - but surely, your husband owes you some alimony?

I'm not sure but my gut says you should be talking to RAV sooner than later....
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Old 28.09.2021, 15:59
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

For job search support and possible unemployment compensation, the OP should plan to contact the area RAV office.

Although the OP has likely not paid into the unemployment compensation fund, it can be possible for a recently separated or divorced person to apply for unemployment compensation. RAV Aargau notes (translated):

"You are also insured (against unemployment) free of charge if you are forced to take up gainful employment as a result of the following or similar events, the event occurred no more than one year ago and you were resident in Switzerland when the event occurred:

Divorce
Separation of marriage
Death of the spouse
Cessation of an IV pension"

https://www.ag.ch/de/dvi/wirtschaft_...597&accordId=0

Good luck with your job search!
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Old 28.09.2021, 16:07
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

You don't say what skills you have, but I'd suggest an contacting and employment agency, even if they can only find you part time work, at least your foot will be in the door and start to give you work experience. It's also possible that one of the firm's they place you with, if impressed by your work, may offer you a full time role. Good luck with it.
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Old 28.09.2021, 16:28
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

Don’t get divorced until your are financially independent, unless, of course, you and your spouse are wealthy.

Good luck!
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Old 28.09.2021, 19:31
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

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Don’t get divorced until your are financially independent, unless, of course, you and your spouse are wealthy.

Good luck!
This! In general, but not absolutely, the Swiss Courts decree that after the divorce each ex-spouse will be responsibly for his/her own support. Some exceptions are made where one spouse has been fully financially dependent on the other for many years, but the judgments about how much dependence of over how many years and the non-working spouse's age, have become stricter.

https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwe...che-ld.2112853

Aargauer Zeitung, Kari Kälin 09.03.2021, 19.24 Uhr

Männer müssen nach der Scheidung weniger Unterhalt bezahlen – das Bundesgericht drängt die Hausfrauen in den Arbeitsmarkt

Das Bundesgericht ändert die Praxis beim Unterhaltsrecht – und schickt geschiedene Frauen auf Jobsuche, wenn sich diese zwecks Kinderbetreuung jahrelang aus dem Erwerbsleben verabschiedet haben. «Die Ehe wird nicht mehr als Versorgungsinstitution angesehen», sagt die Zürcher Rechtsprofessorin Andrea Büchler.


Men have to pay less maintenance after divorce - the Federal Court pushes housewives into the labour market

The Federal Supreme Court is changing the practice of maintenance law - and sends divorced women looking for a job if they have taken years out of the labour force to care for children. "Marriage is no longer seen as a care institution," says Andrea Büchler, a law professor in Zurich.


Wie stark engagieren sich Männer bei der Kinderbetreuung? 50 Jahre nach Einführung des Frauenstimmrechts und zahlreicher Debatten über Gleichstellung später dominiert nach wie vor das traditionelle Rollenmodell: Bei rund 70 Prozent der Paare mit Kleinkindern arbeitet er Vollzeit, sie gar nicht oder Teilzeit, wie Zahlen des Bundesamtes für Statistik zeigen.

How involved are men in childcare? 50 years after the introduction of women's suffrage and numerous debates on equality later, the traditional role model still dominates: in about 70 per cent of couples with small children, he works full-time, she not at all or part-time, as figures from the Federal Statistical Office show.

Geht die Ehe – was hierzulande bei vier von zehn der Fall ist – in die Brüche, bedeutet das: Die geschiedene Frau wird finanziell abhängig von den Unterhaltszahlungen des Mannes. Während langer Zeit garantierte die Ehe den Frauen mit dem Segen der Rechtsprechung quasi die wirtschaftliche Versorgung auf Lebzeiten.

If the marriage breaks up - which is the case for four out of ten in this country - this means that the divorced woman becomes financially dependent on the husband's maintenance payments. For a long time, marriage virtually guaranteed women economic provision for life with the blessing of the law.

Damit ist nun Schluss. Am Mittwoch verschickte das Bundesgericht eine Medienmitteilung, in der es mehrere vor kurzem ergangenen Urteile zusammenfasst, die es bezüglich Gleichstellung der Geschlechter in sich haben.

That is now over. On Wednesday, [in March 2021] the Federal Supreme Court sent out a press release summarising several recent rulings that have a lot to say about gender equality.

Wiedereingliederung in Arbeitsmarkt zumutbar
Unter anderem haben die Richter in Lausanne die «45er-Regel» beerdigt. Bis anhin galt es für Ehegatten als unzumutbar, wieder einen Job zu suchen, falls sie bei der Scheidung 45 Jahre alt waren und während der Ehe nicht arbeiteten.

Neu geht das Bundesgericht davon aus, dass die Wiedereingliederung in den Arbeitsmarkt unabhängig vom Alter zumutbar ist, sofern keine Hindernisse wie Kinderbetreuung im Weg stehen. Das bedeutet faktisch: Hausfrauen können sich nach der Scheidung nicht mehr auf Unterhaltszahlungen ihrer Ex-Männer verlassen. Stattdessen schickt sie das Bundesgericht auf Jobsuche.


Reintegration into the labour market reasonable
Among other things, the judges in Lausanne buried the "45 rule". Until now, it was considered unreasonable for spouses to look for a job again if they were 45 years old at the time of the divorce and did not work during the marriage.

Now the Federal Supreme Court assumes that reintegration into the labour market is reasonable regardless of age, provided there are no obstacles such as childcare in the way. This means in effect: housewives can no longer rely on maintenance payments from their ex-husbands after divorce. Instead, the Federal Court sends them in search of a job.


Auch mit einer neuen Definition des Begriffs «lebensprägenden Ehe» wächst der Druck auf die Frauen. Bis jetzt galt eine Ehedauer von zehn Jahren oder ein gemeinsames als «lebensprägend». In diesem Fall führte das im Grundsatz zu dauerhaften Unterhaltszahlungen, bei nicht lebensprägenden Ehen gab es diese nur für kurze Zeit. Neu müssen die Gerichte die Scheidungsrente auch bei lebensprägenden Ehen befristen.

The pressure on women is also growing with a new definition of the term "life-shaping" (or life-defining) marriage. Until now, a marriage of ten years or one in common was considered "life-shaping". In this case, this led in principle to permanent maintenance payments; in the case of non-life-shaping marriages, these were only available for a short time. Now the courts have to set a time limit for divorce pensions even in the case of life-shaping marriages.

Sie arbeitet Vollzeit, er bleibt daheim: Das ist eine Seltenheit
Als lebensprägend gilt eine Ehe, wenn sich die Frau in die wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeit ihres Mannes begeben hat, um sich um Kinder und Haushalt zu kümmern – und deshalb die beruflichen Aussichten nach dem Scheitern der Ehe eingeschränkt sind. Der umgekehrte Fall ist eine Seltenheit. Nur bei jedem 50. Paar mit Kleinkindern arbeitet sie Vollzeit, während er ausschliesslich den Haushalt schmeisst und Kinder betreut.


She works full time, he stays at home: this is rare
A marriage is considered life-defining if the wife has become economically dependent on her husband in order to take care of the children and the household - and therefore her career prospects are limited after the marriage has broken down. The reverse case is a rarity. Only in one out of 50 couples with small children does she work full-time, while he exclusively runs the household and looks after children.


Schliesslich hat das Gericht die sogenannte «zweistufige Methode» installiert und damit die Methodenvielfalt bei der Berechnung der Unterhaltszahlungen beendet.

Finally, the court installed the so-called "two-step method" and thus ended the variety of methods for calculating maintenance payments.

Auch in einem Entscheid vom September 2018 mutet das Bundesgericht – in der hierzulande gelebten Realität – den Frauen mehr zu. Seither müssen Elternteile, bei denen die Kinder nach der Scheidung leben, grundsätzlich bereits dann ein 50-Prozentpensum aufnehmen, sobald das jüngste Kind den Kindergarten besucht. Vorher lag die Alterslimite bei zehn Jahren.

In a decision from September 2018, the Federal Supreme Court also expects more from women - in the reality that is lived in this country. Since then, parents with whom the children live after the divorce must, in principle, take on a 50-percent workload as soon as the youngest child attends kindergarten. Previously, the age limit was ten years.


Andrea Büchler ist Professorin für Privatrecht an der Universität Zürich. Für sie stehen die jüngsten Urteile für eine Entwicklung, die schon länger anhält: Dass nach der Scheidung jeder Ehegatte finanziell grundsätzlich für sich selber verantwortlich ist. «Die Ehe wird nicht mehr als Versorgungsinstitution angesehen», sagt sie.

Andrea Büchler is a professor of private law at the University of Zurich. For her, the latest rulings represent a development that has been going on for a long time: That after divorce, each spouse is basically financially responsible for himself or herself. "Marriage is no longer seen as a care institution," she says.

Rechtsprofessorin stellt «störende Diskrepanz» fest
Büchler versteht die Rechtsprechung auch als Reaktion auf den Ruf nach egalitäreren Familienmodellen. Allerdings sei das traditionelle Familienmodell immer noch stark verbreitet, und die von der Frau erlittenen finanziellen Nachteile seien auszugleichen. Sie stellt zudem eine «störende Diskrepanz» fest: zwischen den Fakten, die das Bundesgericht schafft, und den gesellschaftlichen Rahmenbedingungen.

Für die Vereinbarkeit von Familie und Beruf bestünden nach wie vor zahlreiche Hürden, zum Beispiel die externe Kinderbetreuung. Zwar gäbe es immer mehr Angebote. «Doch externe Kinderbetreuung ist nach wie vor sehr teuer.»


Law professor notes "disturbing discrepancy"
Büchler also understands the case law as a reaction to the call for more egalitarian family models. However, the traditional family model is still very widespread, she says, and the financial disadvantages suffered by women must be compensated. She also notes a "disturbing discrepancy": between the facts created by the Federal Supreme Court and the social framework conditions.

There are still many obstacles to reconciling family and work, for example, external childcare. Admittedly, there are more and more offers. "But external childcare is still very expensive.
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Old 28.09.2021, 19:36
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

Here(in German, so please use deepl or google translate, or both) the
Press Release of the Swiss Federal Court, dated 9th March 2021
referred to above.

It summarises the main points of five judgments which, taken together, represent a shift in the way the matter of maintenance (alimony) for ex-spouses will be regarded and calculated.

Einheitliche Berechnungsmethode beim familienrechtlichen Unterhalt
Uniform calculation method for family maintenance

https://www.bger.ch/files/live/sites...d_13_03_49.pdf
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Old 28.09.2021, 19:39
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

For a general overview, see the divorce pages on the trusty www.ch.ch,
here: https://www.ch.ch/en/divorce/
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Old 28.09.2021, 21:45
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

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Hi all,

I have read through the threads on divorce but can't seem to find anything for my situation....

I have been marries for 25 years, a housewife for over 20 years. When we came to Switzerland 12 years ago I was not allowed to work. Only now with our C permits I am able to work.

2.5 years ago my husband came out as gay and we 'seperated' we still live in the same house just in different parts. Simply because I have no income and not really another choice. I am so ready to be on my own.

I have been trying to find a job but needless to say without any work history here in Switzerland or for the last 20+ years, it has proven impossible so far.

Does anyone know what my options and rights are or what services might be available to me? We were married with accrual.

Any imput would be appreciated.

Thank you kindly
I am 48, my German is ok. I was a Call centre/customer service manager backi n SA but that was over 20 years ago. I have been completely financially dependant on my husband. I was not expecting or ever suspected that we would not 'grow old together' . My world pretty much fell apart and starting over with nothing is very scary.

And yes, I am angry, I did nothing to cause this or to break up the marriage, I was lied to for 25 years, yet I am the one walking away with nothing. His life just carries on. I do not want to go on benefits as I do not want to endanger my Ausweiss.

I am just sad and lost.

Thank you for all the advice everyone. Much appreciated.
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Old 28.09.2021, 22:14
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

Surely if your German is ok, you can find some job that doesn’t require great work history. Working in a shop, McDonalds, anything to get you started & put something on your CV.
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Old 28.09.2021, 22:47
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Re: Housewife getting Divorced

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I am 48, my German is ok. I was a Call centre/customer service manager backi n SA but that was over 20 years ago. I have been completely financially dependant on my husband. I was not expecting or ever suspected that we would not 'grow old together' . My world pretty much fell apart and starting over with nothing is very scary.

And yes, I am angry, I did nothing to cause this or to break up the marriage, I was lied to for 25 years, yet I am the one walking away with nothing. His life just carries on. I do not want to go on benefits as I do not want to endanger my Ausweiss.

I am just sad and lost.

Thank you for all the advice everyone. Much appreciated.
Will be thinking of you OP! I am sorry that you are in this position. Hang in there; many here on EF are thinking of you, and most importantly, rooting for you!

Stay positive if you can (I know it is easier said than done)! "One step at a time; one day at time" I am quoting my late, very wise Mom here...
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