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  #21  
Old 04.10.2021, 09:15
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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I had 4 molars out aged 7/8 to make room for my wisdom teeth. But I have a pin head, and there was clearly not going to be enough room. My wisdom teeth then came through around age 18/20 with no issues.

That said, how old are you Chuff? I find it hard to believe if you've got into your 30s onwards with no issues that they'll suddenly appear. I'd def ask a UK dentist for a second opinion, they don't do work for "the sake of it".
I'm not planning to go anywhere near the UK for a while, so my second opinion needs to be local here I'm afraid. Age: definitely hit my 30's with no issues!

The problem they say is that the teeth are starting to cause cavities in the neighbouring teeth due to how crowded things are at the back and how hard it makes them to clean. It does sound logical that they would have this effect, I just need to get a little more peace of mind that they really need to come out.
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  #22  
Old 04.10.2021, 09:43
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Why are you seeing an orthodontist about tooth extraction? Just curious. I‘d assume you should see a dental surgeon who specializes in extraction. An orthodontist straightens and aligns teeth…. Though maybe that‘s different here.
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  #23  
Old 04.10.2021, 09:44
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Why are you seeing an orthodontist about tooth extraction? Just curious. I‘d assume you should see a dental surgeon who specializes in extraction. An orthodontist straightens and aligns teeth…. Though maybe that‘s different here.
Yeah maybe I used the wrong word. In german it was an "ortho-something"
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Old 04.10.2021, 10:27
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Some thoughts to the thread here:

a) Dentist(s) topic has been often discussed here and there are many options e.g. abroad visit to cut the costs CHF5k sounds outrageous. Won’t you go on holidays at some point back home to be able to plan it properly or pay a visit to lower cost country e.g. Hungary combined with holidays? I assume you browsed through the threads beforehand.

b) Those findings from your dentist raise eyebrow and red flag, why all of the sudden more and more issues were detected. You should definitely look for at least the second opinion or even more.

c) Scan always belongs to the patient and you have a right to ask for the original. They can keep the copy. I had my scan done in one place and delivered it to my dentist. No probs.

d) As others mentioned, post lockdown the dentists need to make up for their losses so they will try to painstakingly offer what they see is a cash-cow, often not all needed services.

e) At the end of the day, the EF is not a medical practice, just peer-to-peer advice forum and one should really rely on specialists diagnosis and also engage common sense to it, hence refer to point (b)

I had two root-canals done in my lifetime, one wisdom tooth extraction and multiple fillings with regular visits to dentist. Since lockdown, I haven’t paid any dentist’s visit so it’s about the time to do it.
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  #25  
Old 04.10.2021, 13:10
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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...I would rather ...first improve my brushing quality and flossing discipline and then go for a regular check-ups to monitor the situation to see if surgery can really be avoided.
As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

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Hmm, while the surgery may end up being necessary, I doubt that I will need braces, at least it was not mentioned in any way by either dentist and my teeth are at least relatively straight!
Maybe, maybe not. If your wisdom teeth have been in for a while and you remove them, your other teeth might move to adjust to the extra space. At least that's what my dentist told me for a similar situation.

I recently had a crown break on my furthest-back molar. I have had so many problems with that tooth I said I wanted it pulled. The dentist strongly discouraged me, because A) it's an important tooth for chewing and B) my other teeth will shift to fill the space.

So I'm booked in for a few hours this week and next and it's going to cost an arm and a leg. But I'll still have my fairly straight smile.
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  #26  
Old 04.10.2021, 13:56
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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I recently had a crown break on my furthest-back molar. I have had so many problems with that tooth I said I wanted it pulled. The dentist strongly discouraged me, because A) it's an important tooth for chewing and B) my other teeth will shift to fill the space.

So I'm booked in for a few hours this week and next and it's going to cost an arm and a leg. But I'll still have my fairly straight smile.
I have just had almost exactly the same problem. I would have preferred to have my tooth extracted but was told that it has an unusual root formation and could be a difficult procedure. I recently had another molar extracted which affected the trigeminal nerve (temporarily thankfully) and that was pretty awful. I opted to try and save the tooth and have endured quite a few hours in the Endodontist's chair and am writing this with a swollen and bruised face. In truth I didn't even consider that keeping the tooth would have the added benefit of keeping my teeth in alignment. All the hours of procedure seem a little more worthwhile. I am expecting a bill of around CHF 4,000 and hope I still feel that way when I receive it!
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  #27  
Old 04.10.2021, 15:14
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I just had my teeth cleaned for the first time since January 2020. The technician did a great job (135 Euro; panoramic x-ray 88 Euro). She proclaimed my teeth to be in great shape; no tartar or decay, no perio pockets. I attribute that to my stepped-up vigilance with flossing, Waterpik-ing (best thing ever--my dentist insisted I buy one 20 years ago!), and general hygiene during those months. I was so afraid something would happen and I'd have to go to the dentist before being vaxxed.
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  #28  
Old 04.10.2021, 17:49
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.



Maybe, maybe not. If your wisdom teeth have been in for a while and you remove them, your other teeth might move to adjust to the extra space. At least that's what my dentist told me for a similar situation.
Yes, that's why I mentioned the orthodontist. My OH had 2 wisdom teeth pulled out and then started an orthodontic treatment. Thanks goodness we could afford it. lol

I had only one wisdom tooth removed, the only one so far, and I think it was a good decision because it was in a very weird position, it didn't have enough room. It's not alway a bad thing but you have to trust your dentist that they won't perform any unnecessary treatment....we have been very lucky so far but the good old dear dentist is well, getting old and am not happy with the much younger ones hungry of money and...soulless.
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  #29  
Old 06.10.2021, 10:43
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I cancelled my appointment with the specialist for the teeth extraction and will just get my immediate work done which is the remaining filling.

It's very likely I am going to first get a second opinion in CH and then enquire in Konstanz about getting all of the necessary done there. Even if I save 500-1000chf to spend on something else then it's worth it to me.

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I just had my teeth cleaned for the first time since January 2020. The technician did a great job (135 Euro; panoramic x-ray 88 Euro). She proclaimed my teeth to be in great shape; no tartar or decay, no perio pockets. I attribute that to my stepped-up vigilance with flossing, Waterpik-ing (best thing ever--my dentist insisted I buy one 20 years ago!), and general hygiene during those months. I was so afraid something would happen and I'd have to go to the dentist before being vaxxed.

In other news, I just my new Waterpik for the first time... it looks like someone sprayed a fire hose in my bathroom I really need to get used to it... or do it when I am in the shower.
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  #30  
Old 06.10.2021, 12:16
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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In other news, I just my new Waterpik for the first time... it looks like someone sprayed a fire hose in my bathroom I really need to get used to it... or do it when I am in the shower.
Careful you don't turn the power up to max, Chuff. You can blast your gums away from their moorings and cause pockets next to the roots. 5-7 on the dial is fine.
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  #31  
Old 07.10.2021, 18:58
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

To the OP:

- Note that the Waterpick is a very poor substitute to flossing. It typically removes food particles, but does not remove / contain plaque. Not sure why this fact is not known - we have patients who only use waterpicks (without flossing) and are shocked to learn they have quite a bit of plaque between teeth when they come in for hygiene.

- As for your question on 2nd opinion, you are not alone. Unfortunately we have seen an uptick in cases of work-creation by other colleagues of ours (i.e. when work is suggested that is at best 'optional') when people have come to us for a 2nd opinion. Of note is that we have seen more cases from the border clinics than anywhere else - Covid has been tough on the clinics that rely on dental travel. We are in Cham (Zug), though, not in Zurich.

To Klostersgirl:

- Sorry to hear about your travails with the molar extraction and impact on the mandibular nerve. Your dentist should have planned it better - if the root is twisted around the nerve, it is often better to break into pieces and extract through surgery then risk pulling it out. Or the dentist attempted a strong-arm approach. The best extraction technique we have learned was from prof Wagner (Mainz Uni), using a small periotome instead of bigger forcepts / elevators.

- In terms of cost, 4k CHF is a bit steep, but trying to save a tooth with sharply angled roots is a time-consuming / difficult routine. Even with reciprocating machine with nickel-titanium needle, it takes skill, exactness and patience to clear the canals without breaking the needle or perforating the canal. We recently saw a case of a US patient who had done such canal treatment with a specialist there (who had missed spotting the presence of a 4th canal) and paid over $7,000. So curved roots are among the costliest root canal procedures, with the treatment running you anywhere from 2.3k to 2.9k CHF in Switzerland (if the dentist is on SSO tariff system).
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  #32  
Old 07.10.2021, 19:42
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Careful you don't turn the power up to max, Chuff. You can blast your gums away from their moorings and cause pockets next to the roots. 5-7 on the dial is fine.
Oh good to know, thanks!

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To the OP:

- Note that the Waterpick is a very poor substitute to flossing. It typically removes food particles, but does not remove / contain plaque. Not sure why this fact is not known - we have patients who only use waterpicks (without flossing) and are shocked to learn they have quite a bit of plaque between teeth when they come in for hygiene.
Hmm, are you sure it is so bad? I have read a ton of positive feedback on the internet from dental websites and users alike. I plan to floss 3x a week with regular dental floss, then the rest daily with the Waterpik.

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- As for your question on 2nd opinion, you are not alone. Unfortunately we have seen an uptick in cases of work-creation by other colleagues of ours (i.e. when work is suggested that is at best 'optional') when people have come to us for a 2nd opinion. Of note is that we have seen more cases from the border clinics than anywhere else - Covid has been tough on the clinics that rely on dental travel. We are in Cham (Zug), though, not in Zurich.
It's a shame as it does erode trust in the industry when dentists do that.

Thanks for your post, very useful!
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Old 07.10.2021, 19:47
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Joroianev, can I just say how much I appreciate your posts, in this and in other threads through the years.
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Old 07.10.2021, 20:56
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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To Klostersgirl:

- Sorry to hear about your travails with the molar extraction and impact on the mandibular nerve. Your dentist should have planned it better - if the root is twisted around the nerve, it is often better to break into pieces and extract through surgery then risk pulling it out. Or the dentist attempted a strong-arm approach. The best extraction technique we have learned was from prof Wagner (Mainz Uni), using a small periotome instead of bigger forcepts / elevators.

- In terms of cost, 4k CHF is a bit steep, but trying to save a tooth with sharply angled roots is a time-consuming / difficult routine. Even with reciprocating machine with nickel-titanium needle, it takes skill, exactness and patience to clear the canals without breaking the needle or perforating the canal. We recently saw a case of a US patient who had done such canal treatment with a specialist there (who had missed spotting the presence of a 4th canal) and paid over $7,000. So curved roots are among the costliest root canal procedures, with the treatment running you anywhere from 2.3k to 2.9k CHF in Switzerland (if the dentist is on SSO tariff system).
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond so fully to my post and for explaining what happened both with my extraction and the current work I am having done. It is much appreciated.
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Old 08.10.2021, 07:24
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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I plan to floss 3x a week with regular dental floss, then the rest daily with the Waterpik.
I floss 2-3 times every day and brush 2-3 times too (atleast once with electronic toothbrush) Waterpik is no substitute for brushing and flossing.
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Old 08.10.2021, 12:30
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Joroianev, can I just say how much I appreciate your posts, in this and in other threads through the years.
Thank you for the kind words. Glad we have been able to contribute in the discussion.
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  #37  
Old 08.10.2021, 13:22
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Oh good to know, thanks!



Hmm, are you sure it is so bad? I have read a ton of positive feedback on the internet from dental websites and users alike. I plan to floss 3x a week with regular dental floss, then the rest daily with the Waterpik.



It's a shame as it does erode trust in the industry when dentists do that.

Thanks for your post, very useful!
Yes, we clearly see the plaque. Unless the presumption is that so many people simply cannot use their waterpick, the fault has to be with the waterpick itself. Adding quick flossing after the waterpick even 3 times a week should keep you in control of plaque.

I understand your comment on the trust, but please note that it can be said for most professions. Like the 1,200 CHF we were charged by a plumber for a 5-min replacement of the toilet sensor and other labor supposedly done (which really wasn't done). Or a list of 6 changes to our electrical system totaling 2,700 CHF we were asked to implement by an electrical inspector that had to be done with a specific electrical company (which turned all to be bogus when we contacted another for a 2nd opinion). And the list can continue with doctors, accountants, and so on. Not trying to excuse colleagues, just pointing that such behavior is not unique to a particular industry.

Dentistry, as profession, is not an easy one, though likely seems otherwise from the side. To be at the forefront and practice top-class dentistry leads to constant re-investment in equipment and the pace of change is only quickening. A new Sirona chair is 68k. Our 3D x-ray is 125k + 37k for the orthodontic sensor attachment arm. The digital scanner that allows us to do digital workflows is 45k. The implant machine (the size of the waterpick you bought attached to a tablet) on a glass cart is 12k all in. Each of those dental turbines (whose sounds cause many a nightmare) cost 600 CHF per piece, going up to 1,200 for high-powered ones. And the list goes much further. You need to have a good practice to afford these investments (and good personnel) and if you depend on dental tourism that suddenly dries down, then you can imagine the pressure gets enormous. SSO statistics is that 29 dental practices in Switzerland closed their doors in 2020 due to Covid. Don't have statistics for the border clinics in Germany, but can't imagine they have done well. Our location is more in the middle of Switzerland and only 10% of our patients come to us from outside Switzerland, so Covid did not affect us much.
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  #38  
Old 08.10.2021, 14:41
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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I'm not planning to go anywhere near the UK for a while, so my second opinion needs to be local here I'm afraid. Age: definitely hit my 30's with no issues!

The problem they say is that the teeth are starting to cause cavities in the neighbouring teeth due to how crowded things are at the back and how hard it makes them to clean. It does sound logical that they would have this effect, I just need to get a little more peace of mind that they really need to come out.
Don't sound logical to me. Get a 2nd opinion.
Can recommend this place:
http://www.zahnaerztin-wiedikon.ch/
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  #39  
Old 14.10.2021, 07:47
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Hi guys. I got my bill for the following work:
  1. Several Xrays and a 360 scan.
  2. 3 fillings.

Does this look (attached) about right for a Swiss dentist? It was 800chf.

PS: My intial check up and cleaning cost me 200chf.

So 1000chf in total.
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File Type: jpg Dentalcosts.JPG (102.7 KB, 19 views)
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