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Old 03.10.2021, 21:05
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Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Hi guys. last week I went for my first check up and cleaning at Centerdent next to Sihl City. This was ironically my first ever visit to a Swiss dentist, having usually gone in the UK while on business. During the check up, I was informed by the dentist who saw me and analyzed my X-rays that I needed 2 fillings and potentially a wisdom tooth or two taking out. The reason for the extractions being that they make my mouth cramped and thus a lot harder to clean my back teeth, which could lead to future problems. All my wisdom teeth have emerged and I feel no pain or discomfort from them.

I then went for the two fillings a few days later and the dentist who performed the work (a different one to the initial check up) told me that they had now also spotted an extra filling that I need, that the initial check-up apparently missed, and booked me in for another appointment. After running a full mouth scan, the dentist also said that they think that all four of my wisdom teeth "definitely" need to come out to prevent future problems. They then told me that an existing crown will also likely need replacing. In total, I am likely looking at several thousand francs of work doing, maybe between 4000-5000chf.

Now, I am not saying that the dentist is not being truthful, or that all of my wisdom teeth do not need extracting or the crown replacing, but I do not like the fact that they are just very quickly telling me I that need a lot doing and then immediately taking me to the front desk to book appointments without giving me time to think and digest and without really discussing the costs with me unless I specifically ask them. That kind of thing very quickly raises my hackles, and while I booked the appointment for the filling, I told them I would need to come back to them about the wisdom teeth, as that is a comparatively significant operation that needs 1-2 weeks recovery time and I need to think carefully about timing.

Given the scale and expense of what I am told needs doing, would it be prudent to go and get a second opinion at another local dentist to make sure that I am getting good advice?

Cheers.
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Old 03.10.2021, 21:13
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Given the scale of what I am told needs doing, would it be prudent to go and get a second opinion at another local dentist?

Cheers.
Did the doctor show you detailed x-rays and photos and explain everything while pointing out issues on screen? If not and you're going on solely on their word, absolutely seek another opinion. It might cost you an office visit out of pocket but could save thousands.

If your wisdom teeth are in and have been in for a long time I don't see why they need to come out now.

I would also be skeptical if the discussion was brief and it was straight to the front desk for an appointment.

Edit - and you don't need to tell the second dentist about the first. They might be Jass buddies.
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Old 03.10.2021, 21:22
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Did the doctor show you detailed x-rays and photos and explain everything while pointing out issues on screen? If not and you're going on solely on their word, absolutely seek another opinion. It might cost you an office visit out of pocket but could save thousands.

If your wisdom teeth are in and have been in for a long time I don't see why they need to come out now.

I would also be skeptical if the discussion was brief and it was straight to the front desk for an appointment.

Edit - and you don't need to tell the second dentist about the first. They might be Jass buddies.
Hi 3W yes they did have the Xray and did take some time to explain. The fillings of course made sense as I could see them. However, the wisdom teeth extractions were speculating about the future impact of keeping them (poor cleaning leading to more cavities) and while of course I can't argue with the logic, from my perspective I have no pain or discomfort so it's hard to judge how soon it would need doing. The crown replacement is also news to me as I have zero problems with it.

In the end I am not a dentist so I have to largely trust what they are saying and take it in good faith (as with any medical practitioner), but when we are dealing with significant dental procedures and associated costs like this I really would like to be sure, and the fact that the two dentists opinions were different has got my spider senses tingling.
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Old 03.10.2021, 21:34
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I would definitely get a second opinion. Especially in case no other dentist has never mentioned before that you could get problems with your wisdom teeth.

Also, as it's not urgent you can easily wait and have it done in the UK next time when you're there.
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Old 03.10.2021, 21:34
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Not sure my opinion will matter that much.
I also cant be bothered writing any detail about my visits but I went to that same dental practice at sihlcity and had a terrible experience. They also traumatised my 5 son. I would go somewhere else.
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Old 03.10.2021, 21:39
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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I would definitely get a second opinion. Especially in case no other dentist has never mentioned before that you could get problems with your wisdom teeth.

Also, as it's not urgent you can easily wait and have it done in the UK next time when you're there.
You are correct k_and_e, it's not urgent so I should take my time and investigate before committing.

Hmm, I wonder if I can ask them to give me the Xrays/scans that IO paid for, or if those considered their property and they don't generally share them.
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Old 03.10.2021, 21:58
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Hmm, I wonder if I can ask them to give me the Xrays/scans that IO paid for, or if those considered their property and they don't generally share them.

From a Patient Information Brochure from the Swiss Dental Association:
https://www.sso.ch/fileadmin/upload_...arztpraxis.pdf


Wem gehört das Röntgenbild?
Das Röntgenbild wird der Patientin bzw. dem Patienten auf Verlangen ausgehändigt. Bei digitalen Aufnahmen kann dies ein Ausdruck oder ein digitales Bild sein, das auf ein Spei- chermedium kopiert wird. Bei Röntgenfilmen wird der Originalfilm ausgehändigt, wobei der Zahnarzt eine Kopie zu seiner Dokumentation behalten kann. Die Aufbewahrungspflicht übernimmt in diesem Fall der Patient.



DeepL translation:
Who does the X-ray image belong to?
The X-ray image is given to the patient upon request. In the case of digital exposures, this can be a printout or a digital image copied onto a storage medium. In the case of X-ray films, the original film is handed over, whereby the dentist may retain a copy for his documentation. In this case, the patient assumes the duty of storage.

---

Most definitely get a second opinion. And a third if necessary.
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Old 03.10.2021, 22:01
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I have had a lot of dental treatment in the past ten years due to a genetic condition, and I have to say that the impression I got with my last couple of appointments i that the dentists really missed out on a lot work due to lockdown, and are really lacking in customers..and pushing hard to get as much work as they can...



Normally it would take me at least 3-4 weeks to get a regular appointment....but not now...



Yes, I would definitely go for a second opinion...


But you've also technically just had two opinions already - from the first, and from the second dentist that you saw.... but as they were from the same 'practice' they are probably not neutral.



I can suggest cosmodent near the zurich Hauptbahnhof as a local team of dentists, but they won't be the cheapest, that's for sure - and you will get the same slick treatment - fast in, fast out and book your next appointment... but if you want a treatment plan, I chose them as I needed implants and my treatment is quite compley - and the main dentist there is a Swiss trained implant specialist...



I could be wrong, but there seem to be three models of dental practice in Zurich:
1. individual dentists with small teams who run their own business.
2. Head dentists who run a 'group practice' but own/run their own business, and these are usually locally trained.
3. Commercial dental practices which have large teams but are more likely to be employing foreign-trained dentists - with longer opening hours and more staff, but less experience.


It costs a huge amount of money to set up your own dental practice. From what I understand, although I could be wrong, the fastest way to get from working from 3. to 1. is to work for one of these larger/higher turnover places which pay better hourly salaries and you work longer hours, save up your cash, get plenty of experience, then switch to 1. And if you are lucky, or you already have your own wealth, or you have the local connections to get financial backing, then you can go from 1. to 2.



I'd avoid a 3. practice. I tried a 1. but ended up with 2 - as I said, because I was specifically looking for a long-term treatment plan with a locally trained specialist.
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Old 03.10.2021, 22:11
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I am usually not a friend of second opinions. I like to trust my doc. I however have bad experience with these chain dentists, not this particular one. So never going to set a foot in one unless I have to.
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Old 03.10.2021, 22:12
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

In 2007, I went to a Swiss dentist for the first (and last) time. I had a clean and X-rays. I was told the X-rays showed that I needed 4 fillings!! I had never had a filling in my life. I was going to U.K. soon so I made an appointment in U.K. to have the fillings. Once in the U.K. the dentist told me that 2 of the areas of decay were tiny and he would have to do so much damage to the tooth to get to them it was better to monitor them - since then I’ve had 1 filled the other is still ok (14 years on). But the horror part is, the other 2 fillings the Swiss wanted to do, were not decay at all, but just enamel flaws that had always been there and would never need filling
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Old 04.10.2021, 05:48
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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From a Patient Information Brochure from the Swiss Dental Association:
https://www.sso.ch/fileadmin/upload_...arztpraxis.pdf


Wem gehört das Röntgenbild?
Das Röntgenbild wird der Patientin bzw. dem Patienten auf Verlangen ausgehändigt. Bei digitalen Aufnahmen kann dies ein Ausdruck oder ein digitales Bild sein, das auf ein Spei- chermedium kopiert wird. Bei Röntgenfilmen wird der Originalfilm ausgehändigt, wobei der Zahnarzt eine Kopie zu seiner Dokumentation behalten kann. Die Aufbewahrungspflicht übernimmt in diesem Fall der Patient.



DeepL translation:
Who does the X-ray image belong to?
The X-ray image is given to the patient upon request. In the case of digital exposures, this can be a printout or a digital image copied onto a storage medium. In the case of X-ray films, the original film is handed over, whereby the dentist may retain a copy for his documentation. In this case, the patient assumes the duty of storage.

---

Most definitely get a second opinion. And a third if necessary.
As always mel, you helpfully the goods. I just used this link to write to Centerdent to ask for the scans. Thanks!

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Yes, I would definitely go for a second opinion...

But you've also technically just had two opinions already - from the first, and from the second dentist that you saw.... but as they were from the same 'practice' they are probably not neutral.
Thanks swisspea, what you wrote makes sense. There is another dentist local to me who is for more "local" in size so I will go to them for a second opinion, using the copies of the scans I will acquire from Centadent.

If the local dentist confirms everything that Centadent says all good. If not, I will be going back to them for further discussion.

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In 2007, I went to a Swiss dentist for the first (and last) time. I had a clean and X-rays. I was told the X-rays showed that I needed 4 fillings!! I had never had a filling in my life. I was going to U.K. soon so I made an appointment in U.K. to have the fillings. Once in the U.K. the dentist told me that 2 of the areas of decay were tiny and he would have to do so much damage to the tooth to get to them it was better to monitor them - since then I’ve had 1 filled the other is still ok (14 years on). But the horror part is, the other 2 fillings the Swiss wanted to do, were not decay at all, but just enamel flaws that had always been there and would never need filling
I have to admit, I was a bit worried when I got these two fillings done last week. There was some drilling and grinding of my teeth without warning (the dentist was really bad explaining what was about to happen) so I do wonder how much of my teeth they took off.

Honestly, if I end up actually needing 5k of work doing, then I may as well go to Germany and getting a set of veneers (the non-invasive kind where you don't need all the grinding done) to get the hollywood smile and just have done with it.
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Old 04.10.2021, 07:07
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Can you imagine going to the doctor and being told that they'll replace your hip because it might cause problems in the future?

I don't know if it's some Swiss based dentists trying to gouge patients, or if it's patients in Switzerland largely wanting gold-plated treatments.

I was offered wisdom tooth extraction to prevent "future problems". Preventative, speculative surgery? No thank-you. If you haven't done so already, cancel the appointments. If they're not causing problems now and they're already out- what's the point? In my case, they're still in the gum, but I've a big mouth and they've never caused me issues. My wife and son have rather more crowded mouths, their wisdom teeth were causing problems, so it made sense to have the surgery.

Funny thing - apparently the number of wisdom people have is reducing. I have three. One of my daughters has none!
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Old 04.10.2021, 07:24
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Can you imagine going to the doctor and being told that they'll replace your hip because it might cause problems in the future?

I don't know if it's some Swiss based dentists trying to gouge patients, or if it's patients in Switzerland largely wanting gold-plated treatments.

I was offered wisdom tooth extraction to prevent "future problems". Preventative, speculative surgery? No thank-you. If you haven't done so already, cancel the appointments. If they're not causing problems now and they're already out- what's the point? In my case, they're still in the gum, but I've a big mouth and they've never caused me issues. My wife and son have rather more crowded mouths, their wisdom teeth were causing problems, so it made sense to have the surgery.

Funny thing - apparently the number of wisdom people have is reducing. I have three. One of my daughters has none!
While I agree with you that too much speculative work is undesirable, they did at least explain the logic that the difficulty in cleaning caused by my wisdom teeth is causing the beginnings of cavities in the teeth touching them. However, when I say "the beginning" it was barely perceptible at the moment, and can be mitigated with a better cleaning routine. For example my flossing discipline is terrible and I just ordered a Waterpik WP-662EU Ultra Professional Oral Irrigator to try and help with this. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/produc...KR8XB7XF&psc=1

I also bought a Philips Sonicare DiamondClean 9000 HX9911/09 to replace my OralB, which was way too harsh on my teeth and gums. The Sonicare comes with a very cool charging cup and travel case and seems to do an amazing job of leaving my teeth feeling clean with minimal abrasiveness. It feels weird to get used to though, just holding the brush against me teeth and moving it slowly along them! I bought from Interdiscount which currently has 20% off on all Philips Sonicare toothbrushes https://www.interdiscount.ch/de/beau...b--p0000006195

In summary, I would rather not have the "speculative" surgery now and first improve my brushing quality and flossing discipline and then go for a regular check-ups to monitor the situation to see if surgery can really be avoided.

Last edited by Chuff; 04.10.2021 at 07:40.
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Old 04.10.2021, 07:52
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Chuff, you may end up needing the surgery though, if they are indeed badly positioned or already causing problems. But in this case you might need braces too so my advice is to get the second opinion of an actual orthodontist.

Good luck. Whatever you decide, do it after they argument their assessment and defo not everything in one go, as they seem very keen to hold one on that chair of their and do everything without much consideration for what the patient actually thinks or feels, like some car mechanic. We're just income sources to some of them.
There's an inflation of German dentists (nothing against them, they could improve their communication skills though) and not only, who took huge loans to open fancy new clinics or offices and now are under pressure to make money. I just doubt they have their patients' best interest at heart. But that's just me.
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Old 04.10.2021, 07:55
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Chuff, you may end up needing the surgery though, if they are indeed badly positioned or already causing problems. But in this case you might need braces too so my advice is to get the second opinion of an actual orthodontist.

Good luck. Whatever you decide, do it after they argument their assessment and not in one go, as they seem very keen to hold one on the chair and do everything without much consideration for what the patient actually thinks and feels, like a car mechanic.
Hmm, while the surgery may end up being necessary, I doubt that I will need braces, at least it was not mentioned in any way by either dentist and my teeth are at least relatively straight!
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Old 04.10.2021, 08:56
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

Interstitial brushes are also great - but floss is better at getting round the back of course!
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Old 04.10.2021, 08:58
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I had all my wisdom teeth removed in my 40’s. Usually when I broke it and it was not worth fixing. Popcorn is not a good thing. But anyway, all my wisdom teeth were removed with local anesthetic. I think I had them removed in 2 separate surgeries 6 years apart. The last was in 2001. None of my US dentists thought I needed to have them removed prophylactically.

I go to Cosmodent here, near the ZH bahnhof. Last year I broke a tooth and needed a root canal, and an old crown that was about 17 years old needed to be replaced. But my dentist also used a temporary filling on a back tooth instead of a half crown and it’s been there a few years. I find they do stuff when needed, but not excessive. Good English skills and at least one hygienist is American.

I would definitely get a second opinion in your case.
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Old 04.10.2021, 08:59
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I went to Swiss Smile in Zurich a few years ago after I had seen a good write up. I think the dentist wanted to build a new road in my mouth. The quote for dental work was like a telephone number.

In the end I went to the dental clinic of the University Hospital. They were more realistic about what needed to be done and they were much more reasonable from a price perspective. I would certainly give them a try.
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Old 04.10.2021, 09:00
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

I just went to chat to them again to clarify things and apparently:
  1. They say they did initially identify 3 fillings, but for whatever reason the dentist/technician could not complete them all in one session and had to make another appointment for the third and didn't really explain why. Annoying, but meh it can't be helped.
  2. They say they did initially identify all wisdom teeth as needing to come out (for the reasons I outlined earlier regarding cleaning and adversely affecting the neighbouring teeth), but after listening to my concerns about it feeling rushed, they said as it's not an emergency that I can get back to them later in the year.

I am supposed to have an appointment with an orthodontist on Wednesday to discuss the extractions further, but I don't expect them to confirm anything other than the wisdom teeth need to come out for the same reasons as I already learned, so I may delay this a little until I do some more research.
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Old 04.10.2021, 09:10
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Re: Unsure about dentist consultation... should I go get a second opinion?

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Can you imagine going to the doctor and being told that they'll replace your hip because it might cause problems in the future?

I was offered wisdom tooth extraction to prevent "future problems". Preventative, speculative surgery? No thank-you.
I had 4 molars out aged 7/8 to make room for my wisdom teeth. But I have a pin head, and there was clearly not going to be enough room. My wisdom teeth then came through around age 18/20 with no issues.

That said, how old are you Chuff? I find it hard to believe if you've got into your 30s onwards with no issues that they'll suddenly appear. I'd def ask a UK dentist for a second opinion, they don't do work for "the sake of it".
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